Instead of ploughing the revenue received from speed camera fines into more speed cameras why don't we start using technology to start clamping down on persistent offenders of other 'offences' such as tailgating and driving over the hashed lines at junctions in order to move swiftly from the middle lane to the exit with little consideration for others.
The Gov't could also make it a specific offence to stay in the middle lane without good reason and use technology to enforce this.
Chatting to friends in transport research they believe that educating drivers out of the belief that motorways are just 3 cruising lanes dependent on what kind of vehicle you drive and how old you are, would significantly improve traffic flow to an extent where proposed lane widening could be cancelled.
What do people think?
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On your point of motorway lane discipline, the Highway Code is quite clear:
"Keep to the left-hand lane unless overtaking....return to the lane to your left when you have passed the slower vehicles"
Many motorists have the incorrect notion that there are 'Fast' and 'Slow' lanes on motorways and dual carriageways.
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In the good old days, we had public information films broadcast regularly on such issues; it's high time they were brought back. I find the motorway driving suggestion highly plausible; the effect of proper lane discipline is immediately obvious on a crowded stretch of motorway when the idiot finally realizes that he can drive in the left lane at the same speed as in the "faster" lanes. A general attitude geared to "easing the flow" in all circumstances is what we need: letting people out of side roads in crawling traffic, weaving systematically when three lanes become two, allowing large vehicles the space they need, etc. Add to that policy and law that makes the use of the telephone while driving as unthinkable as driving without seatbelts now is (remember when it wasn't that unthinkable?), and we may have see some progress. But I for one am not holding my breath.
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It would be nice if large vehicles gave you the space you need as well. I'm afraid in my experience a large proportion of lorry drivers tailgate. Remember the horrific accident a while ago when a car was crushed between two lorries in an accident because they were all driving so close together?
I think the idea of bringing back public information films is a great one. My favourite experience of poor lane discipline was driving along an empty stretch of motorway, came up on a jag sitting in the middle lane, start to move over to overtake him and he pulls into the left hand lane. Then after I'd passed him he moved back out to the middle lane!
I think the biggest problem is that people are so aggressive in their driving. Nobody wants to move to the left hand lane as they don't know if they'll be able to get back into the middle lane to pass anybody. Or at least that's my opinion.
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Agree with you Mark on tailgating by lorries in the main. However my view has been slightly changed after going out with a friend who happens to be an HGV driver. When you follow car a down a hill doing 56mph only to discover that going up the hill, the car will slow down to 45mph before the truck loses momentum to that speed, the result leaves the truck changing down the gears and ending up doing 30mph at the top of the hill, thus causing problems for the vehicles behind. Another example is where cars come onto the motorway substantially beloew the speed of the lorry. Lorry drivers end up having to slow down only to find the car, once on the motorway, promptly move to the middle lane for no apparent reason and speed up!
It's another example though of where cameras could be used to penalise persistent offenders and issue fines & points (1 or 2 instead of the current minimum 3)
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Didn't think about lorries having so much more momentum. Good point. I try to be as courteous as I can to HGV's as I know how long they take to get up to speed and how annoying it must be to have to slow down and speed up all the time.
I've never understood people joining motorways at low speeds. If the traffic's moving at 70mph how can you expect to merge into it when only doing 50 odd mph?!
The problems with getting cameras to analyse drivers behaviour are paticulary difficult. I work in computer vision and know just how much effort it would take to develop such a system!
I'm of the opinion that better educated drivers is the key instead of a penalisation system. Just look at the stop go driving caused by speed cameras. Have they erradicated speeding? No. Because drivers learn where they are and drive at the speed limit as they pass the camera.
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Mark wrote:
>
> My favourite experience of poor lane discipline
> was driving along an empty stretch of motorway, came up on a
> jag sitting in the middle lane, start to move over to
> overtake him and he pulls into the left hand lane. Then
> after I'd passed him he moved back out to the middle lane!
>
The driver was probably trying to keep his/her arms from being torn from their sockets. I'm sorry to say that the ruts caused by HGVs in the left hand lane of most UK motorways can make driving any car fitted with tyres wider than about 185 section a really painful experience.
In my opinion, the fact that the driver was aware of you and moved over to let you pass, shows that they were being attentive and courteous.
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Hmm, can't say I've ever noticed the left hand lane being that bad, but I can see that it possibly might be. Just so you know my tyres are 185 section, and the section of motorway I was on at the time was the M4, heading into London.
I agree that the fact that they changed lanes shows care and consideration on their part. I'd be interested to hear what a policeman would have to say if you tried to use your reasoning for driving in the middle lane, would he(she) be sympathetic or would he(she) be harsh on you?
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Mark,
Mmmm, I think we may need to start a new thread here if this goes much further ?
On the motorways that I use most frequently, (M3, M40, M42 & M1), some sections are OK and others can be extremely uncomfortable. It just depends on how well each section has been maintained and
the volume of HGV traffic using that particular section. I haven't had the pleasure of driving the M4 for quite a while now, so it could be that the M4 is better than most.
As far as how a traffic cop would react, I'm sure that it would depend on the individual officer and the traffic conditions at the time. If it was on a relatively empty section of motorway and you'd shown him that you were paying attention I'd like to think that most cops would let it go.
Regards,
Kevin... (on 245 section rubber).
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Yeah, it is kinda going off topic...
I'll have to find myself a car with large section rubber so I can feel what it's like. I never realised before that large section rubber could be that much more uncomfortable. Or perhaps always driving older cars and farm vehicles has made me have different standards ;)
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Anyone tailgating wants to pass very badly. If I am in the middle lane I keep an eye on the mirror and move over so they are not held up. Whatever speed you do there is always someone faster. I would rather be stuck in the left hand lane for a while than sandwiched between several impatient vehicles!
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Coming back from holiday in France recently, I noticed how they appear to be embarrassed if they hold someone else up. As soon as there is room, the slower driver moves over so that the faster one can pass.
On reaching England, this behaviour continued all the way up the M20 till we reached Maidstone, when normal English driving habits took over again. It seems that most of the traffic up to there had just come from the tunnel. I know they are supposed to have more accidents than us, but their lane discipline is much better than over here.
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On a recent coach trip to Austria I had plenty of opportunity to watch overtaking habits and lane discipline in other parts of the EU. Tristan is right in what he says about driving in France but this also applies equally, from my experience, to Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, and Austria.
Also of interest is that drivers wishing to overtake will flash the slower car in front. Whereas this is perceived as an act of agression - and perhaps war - in the UK, it occurred so frequently that I can only conclude that flashing a slower driver who is holding up traffic is common practice and not burdened with the road-rage implications that it is in the UK.
As the Highway Code suggests, you should flash your lights only to alert another road user of your presence. If the slower driver hasn't moved back into the left hand lane then perhaps they haven't seen you so, with the Highway Code in mind, give them a conscientious flash.
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Tristan
I've heard about France and the acceptance of headlights as a warning of presence, but I'm not convinced. When you're in a queue of cars passing a lorry on the Autoroute, I find that they tend drive only a car length from the back bumper, which sure is agressive. It's pretty obvious you can't go faster than the car in front. Perhaps because you've left a gap they think you're not trying, but I once had this at an indicated 100 mph! Even if they leave a gap they pull onto your bumper and start flashing the instant you get level with the lorry - the concept of actually getting past before pulling in doesn't seem to be one they are familiar with.
However, in general I don't mind driving in France and they do have better lane discipline, and you find less middle lane hogging than in the UK. That said, they do have many two lane carriageways, which means they really have to pull over. However, I do find the tailgating a worry.
regards
john
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Very heavy punishment can and is metered out both in France and Germany for lane hogging.And somebody coming up behind you who flashes his lights once means get out of the way.But on the other hand intimidation is also a serious offence ie.driving to close ,putting your indicator on etc.
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Andy
I don't mind moving over if there's a space, but when you're passing a couple of lorries there isn't! It just worries me that they drive so bloody close when there is no hope of passing.
regards
john
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In Germany you end up spending almost as much time looking in your rear view mirror as you do through the windscreen if you are in the overtaking lanes! When I first started driving over there I was somewhat surprised to find cars coming up behind at 150mph+! They tend to have less accidents on the autobahns than over here but when there is an accident the chances of survival is fairly minimal.
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