Apologies if this has been discussed before.
There was an article in the Sunday Times this week about a GM concept car. The writer went to great lengths at several points to explain that the car in the picture (an Opel) was equivalent to a Vauxhall. This got me thinking..
Can there be a person alive who does not know that Opel cars and Vauxhall cars are exactly the same? Do people really still think that when they buy a Vauxhall they are buying in to a 'British' product somehow different to an Opel? Is a Vauxhall really perceived somehow as less 'foreign' and thefore preferable to an Opel?
I'm sure that a car company the size of GM does not leave such matters to chance. I dare say that they research this issue on an on-going basis. It just still surprises me that the Vauxhall brand is so strong that it seems to be somehow immune from the normal commercial realties of maintaining the two brands for otherwise identical products.
I don't have any strong opinions either way, but I'm interested to hear what others think.
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I too am amazed that the Vauxhall brand still survives, I would think the last 'proper' Vx. was the Viva HC? Despite the fact I was born & bred in Luton & my father worked for Vx. for 28 years, it wouldn't bother me particularly to buy an Opel rathe rthan Vauxhall; particularly as my last 3 have had 'Adam Opel ' stamped on the VIN plate as the manufacturer.
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Funny thing is, on the M6 I spy lots of car transporters wending their way south (From Elesmere Port I assume) full of brand new "Opel" Astra's as well as those with brand new "Vauxhall" Astras.
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If they are RHD, they are going to Ireland, where GM use the Opel brand.
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might it not do GM's image (and sales) a lot more good if they dropped the once revered Vauxhall badge and produced Opels for the UK market? Holden in Oz may be a different case, with stronger case for retention.
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Holden in Oz may be adifferent case, with stronger case for retention.
Good point, given Australia's geographical isolation. Branding aside, I also find it interesting that in a market as small as Australia (by population) GM can still justify a unique range of cars. I've never been to Australia (so somebody correct me if I'm wrong - maybe I've watched too much Neighbours) but the Holden models often seem completely alien to any GM car I've seen in the U.S., Europe or Asia.
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Holden sell the Corsa, just replaced Astra and Vectra in Australia and NZ. The Zafira is sold in Australia only. All with seemingly just a change of grille.
http:/www.holden.co.nz
http:/www.holden.com.au
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The Corsa is called the Barina in Oz. Sales of the smaller cars up to and including the Vectra are tiny compared to the home designed and produced Commodore (not the same as an Omega).
StarGazer
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Ah good point! what port do they ship them through?
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RF,
Our Corsa/Barina came from a processing facility near Cairns, so assume it was shipped in from there.
Some friends brought their Holden Barina back with them and had cause to try and replace a single plastic wheel trim....Vx dealer looked on the computer and since all wheen trims from same factory simply ordered a Holden trim to match the rest.
StarGazer
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The other day i saw 3 transporters all with left hand drive Opel Astras on them going down the m53. In Ellesmere Port because the factory is so big a lot of people from the town work at Vauxhalls which means they and their relatives can get very good discounts on new Vauxhalls. There seems to be a lot of vauxhall cars both new and old in E.Port so i imagine their is certainly a fair bit of brand loyalty to vauxhall round here anyway.
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but maybe that doesn't necessarily mean people wouldn't buy them if they were badged Opel - same cars, after all...
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There seemsto be a lot of vauxhall cars both new and old in E.Port so i imagine their is certainly a fair bit of brand loyalty to vauxhall round here anyway.
I'm sure that the folks of Ellesmere Port do feel loyalty to a major local employer. Makes sense. But would it make any difference if the factory had an Opel sign outside? Those who work there would know more than anyone how shallow the branding really is.
I can imagine the production line: Vauxhall badge on this one....Opel badge on this one.... Vauxhall badge on this one... I wonder if they ever get the badges mixed up?
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There seems >> to be a lot of vauxhall cars both new and old >> in E.Port so i imagine their is certainly a fair bit >> of brand loyalty to vauxhall round here anyway. >> I'm sure that the folks of Ellesmere Port do feel loyalty to a major local employer. Makes sense. But would it make any difference if the factory had an Opel sign outside? Those who work there would know more than anyone how shallow the branding really is. I can imagine the production line: Vauxhall badge on this one....Opel badge on this one.... Vauxhall badge on this one... I wonder if they ever get the badges mixed up?
I don't really think that people would stop buying vauxhalls because they changed their name to Opel afterall the workers would still get the same tempting discounts but i think people like familiarity and even if they did change i bet people would still call them vauxhalls for years after any official name change to Opel!!
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Yes, about eight or ten years back, I remember seeing a show car (an Astra Merit) at the Birmingham Motor Show with an Opel badge on the steering wheel and Vauxhall badges everywhere else...
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Yes, about eight or ten years back, I remember seeing a show car (an Astra Merit) at the Birmingham Motor Show with an Opel badge on the steering wheel and Vauxhall badges everywhere else...
you can go here and turn your Vauxhall,, sorry Opel into a Cadillac. (brand engineering gone mad!!)
www.familycar.com/RoadTests/CadillacCatera/Photos....m
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Yes,
Workmate of mine ordered a brand new Vectra estate, came with opel hubcaps and vauxhall everywhere else
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Vauxhall is a British company (albeit ultimately US owned) with over 100 years of history. Brand loyalty dictates that GM keep the brand in this country (as they do Holden in Australia) as a 100 years is a heck of time to have a brand name in existence. The time to drop the Vauxhall brand was probably at its all time low at the end of the 1970's, not now when it is doing quite nicely. Feet buyers probably like to buy "British" where they can and after all at least Vauxhall do still produce cars in this country. Opel products or very similar "world cars" are sold in the US under various GM American brands and you wouldn't expect them to be branded as Opels over there.
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Sorry, Voctorbox. You're not convincing me. To buy a Vauxhall is no longer to 'Buy British', it is to buy an American-owned brand name. Sure, by chance the model purchased could come from a UK plant, but it could just as easily be one in Germany or Spain or wherever else they're made.
Sure GM sell cars under a load of brand names all over the place, but GM cars in the U.S. are usually substantially different (if not completely different) to those sold here. My point is that Vauxhalls sold here are absolutely no different to Opels sold elsewhere. And everyone knows it, too.
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I have to believe that if the Marketing People feel that there is a significant difference between Olay/Ulay and Cif/Jif then they must get completely carried away over Vauxhall(UK)/Opel(Eur)/Chevrolet(South America) and Holden (Aus). And I'm sure there's more.
But in Chile a Chevrolet Astra is an Astra etc. etc.
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If the Vauxhall name is doing OK, why drop it? Does Opel have a better image than Vauxhall?
Badge engineering may be a bit of a farce, but even the best did it in the past - Rolls-Royce and Bentley from the late 1940's until the takeover split, Jaguar and Daimler from the 60's until the dropping of the latter brand.
cheers, Sofa Spud
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Saab is basically a Vauxhall now (some of their cars share the same floorplans and engines), but they're still keeping the same name.
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Saab is basically a Vauxhall now (some of their cars share the same floorplans and engines), but they're still keeping the same name.
Agreed that they use the same bits, but the styling and interiors are sufficiently different to differiate them. Plus SAAB is a rcognised brand in the states, whereas Vauxhall is UK only. GM are rebranding Impreza estates as SAAB 9-2 for the states!
If it's only badges, keep the Vauxhall name, but maybe re-introduce the Opel badge for the VX220. Hang on, that's a Lotus...
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And i bet more Vauxhalls are sold than MG Rovers. In other words, the brand still has a considerable share, so if it ain't broke, why fix it?
I do remember about the early 80's the badges on vauxhall dealers were the griffin on the left, GM in the middle and the Opel one on the right. Maybe this assisted consolidation of the brands, after all Opel Asconas and Kadettes were sold until the late 70' / early 80's, but as one poster said, this would hae been the time to change to Opel.
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They've tried the Opel brand in this country before though. Back in the early 80s (and probably 70s) the dealers were tri branded Vauxhall/Opel/GM if I remember rightly. Opel sold two models over here - the Ascona and the Manta. Sales were probably very low compared with comparable Vauxhall equivalents so the Opel brand was dropped from the UK market.
Times have changed though and it's probably a good idea to relaunch Opel (a world brand) and drop the local Vauxhall brand. There would probably be a cost saving to be made also. Other types of consumer products have been globalised recently - Snickers, Starburst, Veet, Cif, Olay
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As I said, you are buying a long established brand name which also happens to be a British company dating from 1903. The brand name and image is the key not where the cars are made. As others have said, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
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My point is that Vauxhalls sold here are absolutely no different to Opels sold elsewhere. And everyone knows it, too.
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>> My point is that Vauxhalls sold here are absolutely no different to Opels sold elsewhere. And everyone knows it, too.
>>
Sorry, finger trouble there.
Dilbert, can't agree that "everybody knows it". Certainly people who come to the BR may know it, but we're the ones who (generally speaking, there are exceptions) have an interest in cars. The vast majority of the car buying public see them as transport ("I don't care what it is as long as it ges me from A TO B") and don't care about the differences between Opel and Vauxhall.
My guess is that if you went and asked a hundred people about car origins, the majority of those who have an opinion would say Opel = German, Vauxhall = British.
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OK. I think that's answered my question. I can imagine that the good car-buying is not aware of the extent to which just the cars' badges are swapped depending on which country you happen to be in. Weirdly, even though I am fully aware of the shallowness of the branding, the Vauxhall brand still brings to mind the clapped out old Vivas and Chevettes of my Childhood, while the Opel brand somehow suggests sleek, Germanic cars like the Manta or the Monza.
The cynical side of me says that GM maintains the Vauxhall name as a way to protect the British market from 'imports' (in the loosest sense). No other manufacturer has the benefit of being able to visibly differentiate the official cars from the imposters. A deterrent to would-be personal importers, perhaps.
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You could make the same point about US-owned rather than British in the case of Ford - Mondeos are produced in Genk, Belgium; Dagenham's Fiesta production ended in February 2002 and went to Germany, joining the Focus in Saarlouis, whilst the Ka and Focus hail from Valencia, Spain.
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Came out of our local village supermarket yesterday to find a Monaro parked next to mine surrounded by people, some taking photographs. The owner was trying to look nonchalant but his two small kiddies were revelling in the attention. Are there many of these around cos I certainly haven't seen one before? I think he was telling the small crowd that it was a 5.7 and he got 12 miles per gallon urban !Looked nice though as I drove off in my Rover 25........
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Don't forget is not really a Vauxhall, it's a cynically badge engineered GM Holden (Australia) with a Chevrolet engine. The only thing Vauxhall have done is stick the badges on.
I'd still 'ave one though.
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I'd love a proper Autralian HSV version of the Monaro - you can buy and import one for less than the lower powered UK car.
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Yup, should have been sold as a Holden through Vauxhall dealers.
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I, for one, don't blame the General for labelling them as Vauxhalls. After the (unfair) hatchet job that JC did on the Vectra (because he didn't like them and could afford something better) Vauxhall did two worthy things - it out Lotused Lotus with the VX220 (why couldn't they call it a Vauxhall Speedster over here though) and produced a far prettier hatchback than Ford managed - have you seen the Astra Sports hatch ? By the way I am still waiting for JC to eat his hair (or whatever he said when was reviewing the Astra concept) should Vauxhall have gone ahead with what turned out to be the Sport...Have you seen a new Tigra ?..far prettier and more sturdy than the Pug original. The Vauxhall brand was once a well respected badge and deserves to be one again. If some of the cahet cascades onto the lesser models well more power to them.
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Rented one last year in Oz. A Holden of course. A proper muscle car by any standard. The Monaro has been Holden's performance since at least 1969 IIRC.
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I, for one, don't blame the General for labelling them as Vauxhalls. After the (unfair) hatchet job that JC did on the Vectra (because he didn't like them and could afford something better)
I think this is unfair - it's debatable whether the hatchet job was fair or not - I happen to agree with him in that it was, but his opinion was certainly not motivated by the fact he could afford something better - the praise he heaped on the Focus is proof enough of this but for those who still won't accept that let us not forget the Vectra review was 1995, at the beginning of Clarksons television career - he was hardly loaded at the time. From reading his books this is around the time he actually owned an Escort as his main car. Ok, it was a COsworth, but still not the stuff of dreams and not significantly more expense than a Vectra.
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The only thing Vauxhall have done is stick the badges on.
And used the electric mirror switch from my old mk3 Cavalier.
My local Vaux dealer has a brand spanking new one right outside the showroom and also a couple of 2nd hand ones for sale,
I'd still 'ave one though.
yes, so would I.
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Was it a VXR, they're the hot ones? It's good to see vauxhall making a fast car.
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It's good tosee vauxhall making a fast car.
But that's the whole point.. Vauxhall *don't* make it!!!
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'Vauxhall' is just a name on a badge. 'Vauxhall' ceased activies as an engineering/design company many years ago. They are now rebadged Opels, Holdens, Isuzu etc.
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They still make commercials in Luton,or is that the same?
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Sorry,I meant selling one.
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The first time I saw a Monaro was last summer a our 'local' motor show. Although I have a Vauxhall, I wondered what all the attention was at the VX stand. I then realised where the wonderfully unique V8 sound was coming from and when I could actualy see the car past the crowd, I saw it rocking on its springs everytime the engine was revved. It looked and sounded like nothing else around and that included BMW's and audi's.
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The proper hot ones are badged up as a HSV - holden special vehicles.
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Commercials are re-badged Renaults. Nothing wrong with badge engineering.
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And so are the 4X4s ?
Can't think of any Vauxhall 4x4's, unless you mean the Frontera (they don't still make that do they?). Anyway the Frontera is an Isuzu Amigo in other markets. And Bedford Rascals were Suzuki's. And the Vauxhall Agila is the Suzuki Wagon R.
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Having read the bit about the "wonderful V8 sound" I think I want one. :-(
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I'd rather have that V8 rumble with Chevrolet Corvette written on the back rather than the twee Vauxhall badge!
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I'd have that V8 rumble with a Hindustan badge on the back!
--
Adam
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Bearing in mind that its the back that most people will see !
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or not...depending how you look at it.
--
Adam
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Well I wouldn't buy one and not want to overtake everything would I ?
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I meant you wouldn't see it for d....
Never mind. You knew what I meant anyway! Didn't you? Didn't you?
;-)
--
Adam
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No, no, no badge at all. That takes away the mystique. Debadge imediately, custom yellow paint, black muscle stripes across the hood and roof and down the back, airbrushed "BOSS 5.7" along the rear wings in black, a powder coated "shaker" air scoop to catch pigeons, Mc Do's styros thrown from buses and small children, plus powder coated black wheel rims with gold centres, a supercharger which should probably double the horsepower.
Perhaps a tastfully airbrushed graphic on each front wing: maybe a skull in a top hat with a cigarette holding up a full house (cards I mean), or a naked woman pushing up the lid about to climb out of a coffin full of roses. You decide. Your local airbrush expert should have lots of ideas anyway.
Subtle window tint and total leather interior with the Boss motif repeated on the steering wheel hub and seat backs. That should do for starters.
That should knock 'em dead on the school run.
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So would I! I love US muscle cars but the Monaro certainly comes close as a usable car over here --- assuming you can afford the petrol!!
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So would I! I love US muscle cars but the Monaro certainly comes close as a usable car over here
Welcome to backroom.
Where is *over here*?
you give nothing away in your profile..?
it's top secret!
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So it's been discussed in the backroom before, but hey! nothing like injecting life into an old chesnut is there?
slightly disgressing from the Monaro thread my question for today is.. what does the Vauxhall nane mean? or whats the point. The Monaro is a great example of cynical badge engineering that does nothing for the marque, like i've stated before the Vauxhall name means nothing to everywhere else in the world. No cars bulit in Luton.. all cars designed (the badges) at the GM facility at Russellhiems in Germany.
A naff image here and unknown anywhere else, isn't it time they finally ditched the brand and called them what they really are..
Opel.
Correct..... i'm not a fan
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Why would you get so worked up about their brand name ? Whether or not I am a fan of a car I don't see getting excited about what they choose to call it.
As it happens they use GM in South America.
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Why on earth would a company that alternates most months with Ford to have the largest new car/van sales in the UK want to change its name?
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Maybe so, change the name, it's seemed to work for dawoo
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i had my dads viva
the rust ahad rust spots on it
they dont nake em like that now
"yes there are laws against it!"
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Well said Victor. Regardless of whether a brand name reflects the heritage of the design/build, regardless of whether some people consider it a 'naff' brand name, the sales don't lie. It works, don't change it.
Something those who changed Royal Mail (second most recognised brand in the world after Coca Cola) to 'Consignia' didn't appreciate. Was 'Consignia' considered a good idea in hindsight?
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Royal Mail use Vaxhalls.
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Probably because they fit their needs.
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Something those who changed Royal Mail (second most recognised brand in the world after Coca Cola) ......
Slightly off topic (not that that seems to stop anybody ;-) ) but I would have thought anyone of Pepsi, McDonalds, Mercedes, Ford, Toyota, Sony etc. would be a more regcognisable global brand than Royal mail?
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Why on earth are we Brits such brand snobs? Does this largely emanate from people who know so little about cars that the only thing they can make a judgement on is a name. The truth of the matter is there is a great deal of cross pollination in the motor industry which I believe would surprise many. In Germany Opels are still seen as a reasonable quality car and no great distinction is made to BMW for example until you get to the larger and more expensive models.
There seems little point in condeming modern day Vauxhalls on experiences with Chevettes.
If you look around at say Mk2 Cavaliers from 1989 onwards they are no more rusty than anything else and indeed two years ago I sold a 1996 Vectra which was then seven years old and bodywise was immaculate. One of the cars that parks near me in the works car park is an 'L' reg 320 BMW and it has two ripe front wings rusting in a way that I have not seen for quite a while.
I'm sure it is not typical but it perhaps illustrates that the world is noy so simplistic as some of these 'knocking'threads would suggest.
SR
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But most of all, GM, don't bother branding Daewoos as Chevrolets. I really, really, really, can't see what this is supposed to achieve.
To me, Daewoo is synonymous with cheap and cheerful motors made in Dullsville, Korea. Pays yer money, makes yer choice.
Chevrolet on the other hand is synonymous with appallingly built lumps of angle iron. Pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap. No class, no quality, no style, in fact no nothing, and I include all Corvettes here, too; As well as having seen several older ones in the past, I took a detailed look at a brand new one a few weeks ago. Complete carp beyond the gloss, all of them.
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'L' reg 320 BMW and it has two ripe front wings rusting in a way that I have not seen for quite a while.
I don't know the rust reputation of this model, but this could be the result of a poor quality accident repair in the past.
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In america they turned a Omega into a Cadalac, no changes just the badge. What a way to ruin a car.
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Schoolboy look on this link,
www.familycar.com/RoadTests/CadillacCatera/Photos....m
If your familier with the Omega you'll notice the subtle diffrences inside and out. Actually I quite like it. Never seen one here though and if there is one i'm sure it'll be a headturner to people in the know.
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I like the new recessed centre console and the upside down tail lights! They look more menacing. That huge 3rd brake light isn't too bad either and that grille - wow! You would move out fo the way for that!
--
Adam
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