Buying a bike

What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks

Wed 9 Jun 2004 00:14

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

A motorbike, that is. I know there are few bikers out there, and I'd welcome their thoughts on what to buy for general commuting (50 miles/day max) and occasional fun.

I have a full licence, also an old R80 BMW, but it's becoming rather high maintenance, and I'd like something lighter with brakes that work!

I'm not ruling anything out (except perhaps scooters), but there seems to be huge void between 125's and 600's, with the exception of one or two 500's. The old Suzuki GS500 seems to go on and on, but I would like something a bit less ordinary, maybe.

Singles are OK (I favour something narrow after a wide flat-twin!) but a V-twin might be nice. Something like a Honda Transalp would be OK, but I'm trying to keep the weight down (I'm quite light myself).

Any feedback much appreciated, as ever.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 03:58

Buying a bike - THe Growler

JBJ you lucky man, we have a local dealer who specialises in restoring those old BM's. They are pristine and gorgeous. Always in black with plunger rear suspension and those (?Earles?) front forks. Hang on to yours. You should be able to rent it out to Pinewood Studios for the next WWII movie.

You don't say what class of bike you specifically favour but I sense it's somewhere between the out and out balls-out rice rocket and the sit up and beg cruiser.

For a balance between day-to-day hack work but with enough grunt (600cc)to have fun with at the weekends I would put the Suzuki Bandit at the top of my list. It won't go wrong, there are dozens of examples running around where I live and I have ridden it on occasions and found it an entirely competent machine. It doesn't look like exactly the Duck's Guts when you pitch up at Starbucks but it's a good sound solid bike. I do not know the Honda Hornet but I understand these are similarly well rated. Like most Japs they are pretty indestructible. Cooling systems can be troublesome if not regularly serviced but that's no big deal for someone like yourself handy with a wrench.

IMHO the bigger Japs (Gold Wing, Valkyrie) are very heavy and great for touring but not what is ideal for a daily traffic commute. Remember you will spend quite a lot of time parking and manouevring and upper body work-outs are all very well but not at the end of a long hard day......

I agree nothing like a V-Twin to give you that feeling between your legs (sorry moddies that's just the way it came out) and the Honda Steed, Yamaha Dragstar, Kawasaki Vulcan (the 535 cc Virago isn't bad either but go for the 750, it looks good and is light for its engine size) all fit that bill. My problem with the Jap V-twins is the way they ape the US choppers for design fashion as opposed to handling.

Their fork trail (Dragstar is especially scary)is such they drop into the bends and feel (to me distinctly unsafe) compared with my Harley which stays pretty much wherever you put it at any speed (although as Growlette will tell you we have had a few trouser loosening moments....). But then you're running into big money of course with a Hog, so that is not a good answer to your question.

My Filipina beauty rides a Virago round town, it's a great little bike at city traffic speed and she looks unbearably sexy on it but I won't let her take it on longer rides. Like so many of those Japanese Harley look-alikes it was built around looks rather than handling as I said. The oversteer is not funny.

Honda Transalp? Tons of punch. But unless you have a long inside leg, can be a hassle. Vibrates as well. Suzuki SV650? Worth a look. Not to say not good bikes, but me I like to have both boots on the deck at the lights. Aprilia does (did?) some nice stuff but they're in financial trouble so I don't think I would go that route.

Why don't you contact your local bike club? I'm sure they could help you out with some useful advice. You can probably get some trial rides to give you a feel for what might suit. In my experience biker clubs anywhere in the world are only too pleased to help.

Coincidentally I am also looking for a commuter to replace my little Honda XLR200 track bike. I keep the Hog for high days and holidays and I am increasingly drawn to the Suzuki Bandit 400 cc for just back and forth-ing (traffic here is a nightmare). I understand this is a Japanese only model and in UK you have to go for the 600. It has a very nice exhaust howl.....it's small in size and weight, very compact and extremely well nailed together.

If you win the lottery then the Ducati Monster might fill your bill....but budget for the times it'll be in the shop with knackered electrics. That's when you're not pushing it home.

Scooters well don't ask me about them......too many gender orientation problems ;+)

My other advice would be when you get whatever it is you want, junk whatever tyres are on it and go for Metzeler. They won't last as long but they'll forgive when you overcook the bends or have those inevitable potentially life-altering moments. No rider I know rides on anything else.

Look forward to hearing of your decision.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 12:04

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

"..she looks unbearably sexy on it but I won't let her take it on longer rides"

If she looks that good, I don't think I would, either... :-)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 08:24

Buying a bike - Clanger

"For a balance between day-to-day hack work but with enough grunt (600cc)to have fun with at the weekends I would put the Suzuki Bandit at the top of my list. It won't go wrong, there are dozens of examples running around where I live and I have ridden it on occasions and found it an entirely competent machine. It doesn't look like exactly the Duck's Guts when you pitch up at Starbucks but it's a good sound solid bike."

I ride a Bandit 600 but I don't have the standards of comparison that Growler does; it's my first proper bike. If you want your bike to look different, or even like the Duck's Guts, there's loads of goodies to customise a Bandit. I would suggest going for a faired bike; something to divert the wind when you commute every day is going to be a boon. Mine has a bolt-on Givi screen. Tyres; as a newbie rider I can't fault the Bridgestone BT 56s it came with (now supplanted by BT010s). They have shrugged off my rookie errors and inexperience a treat. With its new air filter it gives me a whisker under 50 mpg and it likes Shell Optimax better than "cooking" petrol.

Good luck with the project and keep us posted.
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 08:31

Buying a bike - NARU

I ride a Yamaha Fazer - extremely competent machine, which does absolutely everything well, but perhaps not that special feeling you're looking for.

If you're considering GS500s, I'd also look at the Honda 500 twin - I was amazed at its handling - far, far better than a budget bike deserves to be. I now understand why it spawned a race series!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 09:16

Buying a bike - Garethj

I've got a Honda Hornet 600 which I use for a 75 mile daily commute. It's downfall is the small fuel tank which only gives 120 mile range until reserve but it's been blamelessly reliable, has a friendly character and is flexible enough to do 20mph in 6th gear or 90mph in 2nd gear if you want to. It's been used right through the winter and rust has kept away.

A Honda CB500 is generally a good starter bike with good torque, fair power and good reliability. A Honda Bros might also be worth a look as something a little different.

My brother had a Suzuki Bandit and it was a good bike, if a bit heavier than the Hornet. Power was a bit down as well.

The Suzuki SV650 is worth a look too, very good torque and quite a nice ride.

To find your way around the makes and models you can look here: www.motobykz.co.uk/Newmodelandprices.htm

Good luck, and you know where to come if you have any more questions.

Gareth

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 10:35

Buying a bike - SjB {P}

To second Garethj, I too have a Honda Hornet 600, which I've owned from new in 1998, and have no intention of parting with. For me, it has proven to be the ideal real world machine, and everything I hoped it would be, being all of these things:

Friendly and forgiving towards me as a Direct Access novice, it actually proved easier to ride, being both smoother, lighter, and with a better weight distribution than the Suzi GS500E tractor that I learned on.

A howling animal when the wick is wound beyond 8,000RPM, with the levels of ballistic acceleration that it takes a McLaren SLR to come close to (I know, I've been luckly to experience both!)

Great at commuting, with a flexible engine, and a successful paradoxical marriage of sharp sportsbike handling and great stability at low speed control. Together with the riding position, makes filtering a breeze. Narrow road, feet up, U-turns are a doddle.

Surprisingly, great at touring! Like Garethj I get about 120-125 miles before I reach down and switch to reserve to save any embarrassing phut-phut moment in the middle of a manoeuvre, but to be honest, by then, it's nice to stop for a break, and if with mates, chew the fat, anyway. Remember this is touring, not a race I write about!

Totally reliable. Not a single glitch of any nature in six years.

Well constructed. No horrid welds, mismatched plastic, or obvious signs of cost cutting, despite being a relatively budget bike (£5300 list when new six years ago, though I paid £4200)

Cheap to insure. I am forty, and with full NCD pay £135pa fully comp with £75 excess, garaged, living in Bucks.

For a 600, comfortable as a pillion perch. My wife loves it, and much of my riding is now two up. With rear preload wound up to maximum to keep the steering angle sharp despite the extra weight on the back, it's still a Great Fun Machine.

Econonimical to run. Because I am lucky to use my company supplied fuel card to fill it up, I keep records of every top up. This shows that I have averaged 43 MPG over the six years.

To my eyes, one of the most gorgeous, and original looking, bikes on the road, at any price. Viewed from just off centre behind, the way the curves fold in to each other is almost sensuous. Beautifully done.

Okay, these are the positives that come to mind, what about the negatives?

The original brakes were on the heavy side, and slightly wooden in feel. This was done deliberately by Honda to help provide a machine that is all things to all people. Later machines (post 2000 I recall) have sharper brakes, but I sharpened mine up for about £60 by fitting goodridge twin braided hoses on the front. No need to touch the back brake. The brakes are now much lighter (Two finger braking is easy), and have huge feel.

Tank range. Well, as I said earlier, 120 miles is fine for me, but some prefer longer.

Wind protection. I originally purchased the naked Hornet because it was the only one on the market (it is again now as the faired jobbie has been discontinued), but found the wind blast more of a pain than I noticed on the test ride. No comments about the law, please, but 70MPH cruising was about it. When the bike was a year old, I fitted a superbly well made TCP half fairing from Spain, that looks like it is OEM. It really blends in with the bike fantastically. It has also pushed the comfortable cruising speed up to 95 MPH, with no effect on handling. Lower speed touring is now more comfortable, too.

No centre stand. Actually, I think these spoil the looks of any bike, no matter how practical they may be, and I simply spent £49 on a Micron paddock stand for my chain lubing / tyre checks / etc.

Err.... that's it!

It truly has proven to be a superb all round machine. If you want more information, a trip to the forum at www.hondahornet.co.uk will oblige.

To finish off, what else did I consider?

A Honda Firestorm. I fancied a nice V-twin , but discounted it on the grounds of having a tank range that really is low, an uncomfortable pillion perch, and a riding position not so well suited to commuting. In the end, I have rather grown to like the addictive scream and attendant horizon grabbing rush of a high revving four, anyway.

The Yamaha Fazer. No matter how capable, discounted on the grounds of being tall and top heavy for my challenged inside leg, being as ugly as sin, and having much lower build quality than the Hornet. This has proven true in practice, and I know of two cherished, relatively fair weather, Fazers the same age as my Hornet which are rusty and corroded now.

Suzi GS500E / Suzi Bandit 600 / Kwack GPZ500: All discounted because I thought I'd bore of them very quickly.

Ducati Monster 600/750: Lovely looks. Lovely sound. Heart said "Must Have"! Head said "Poor finish, look at that fork leg weaping oil on a brand new machine, look at the exposed wiring connectors, look at the poor pillion perch, look at that pathetic turning circle, look at....., stay clear" Probably a wise move, but I still hanker after a ride on a Monster S4R!

Whatever you choose, think twice, and buy the right bike for you first time! If you have any more questions, or experiences you would like shared, please ask.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 00:06

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Excellent summary, SjB - thank you. I've only just got round to reading it properly!

The Hornet does seem to have a loyal following, and it's nice to hear how tractable it is. Nice to be able to potter as well as tear up the tarmac. Hmmm...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 11:37

Buying a bike - SjB {P}

Thanks for the kind words, JBJ

There's a first time for everything, but I haven't yet found a single person who's been disappointed with a Hornet 600. You'd certainly do yourself a good favour to find one and take it for a test ride along with anything else that takes your fancy. Plenty abound at the £2000ish mark.

If a test ride begs further questions, feel free to shout.

BTW - Mine's Tahiti Blue, a colour to die for!

Good luck.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 00:03

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

None in the bike shops round here, but that probably just reinforces what you said, if people hang on to them.

I will have a better look at the weekend, and will certainly bear it in mind. I agree with you about the colour - which just makes the choice more difficult!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 21:00

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Thanks for that, Gareth. The link is very useful - like UBG but with pictures!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 11:06

Buying a bike - BrianW

I use a Honda CD250-U for an 80 mile a day commute.
OK, it's old but virtually 100% reliable, 90mpg on a mixed run(1/3 London, 2/3 rural)and less than £100pa to insure.

I'm quite light too (10 1/2 stone) and with fairly short legs can still get my feet flat on the ground.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 11:19

Buying a bike - dilbert

I would first decide what kind of engine you would prefer: The vibey low-down grunt of a v-twin, or the smooth, screaming top-end of an in-line four? There are others of course, but you get my idea. For myself, I prefer fours - I think that I'd get tired of a twin on a regular boring commute.

I was in the same bike-purchasing dilemma a few years back. Liking the smooth delivery of fours, I considered seriously Hornets, Fazers and the like. All great bikes. In the end I chose a YamYZF600R Thundercat as I liked the idea of a fully faired bike but couldn't afford/didn't want the full-on nonsense that comes with other 600 sports bikes.

The Thundercat turned out to be a good choice. In the four years I owned it I found it comfortable, reliable and versatile enough for both touring and track days. I think that they've just gone out of production so I guess that they'll be getting cheap now, too.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 11:38

Buying a bike - stackman

As a BMW rider you might consider their F650GS/CS/Dakar range. Single cylinder engine, funky street/trail styling and innovative design. These get great reviews for everyday use and should be reliable and comfortable enough for a regular commute.

Personally I find the Bandit/Hornet/Fazer a bit too much like hard work with their engines needing to be revved to get up and go. The SV650 is better with its low-down pull, plus it looks great too.

Horses for courses really, if a four cylinder appeals then I would plump for a Thundercat.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 12 Jun 2004 21:00

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

"I use a Honda CD250-U"

Not a fashion victim, then! Good for you.
90mpg will be seriously useful if the situation in Saudi deteriorates...

:-)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 12:01

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Thank you all, esp. Growler, for such an amazing response (in less than 12 hours since original post!)

Am going to have a look at one or two today, so will reply properly later. It will have to be slightly used, as my pockets are none too deep (which probably rules out the Ducati - sniff!) but I am pleasantly surprised to find a reasonable amount of choice around the £2k mark.

Of course, you realise that the weather will now deteriorate rapidly...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 12:16

Buying a bike - trancer

I have been tossing around the idea of getting a bike to partly fill commuter duties, but my decision is easier?, because I already know that I only want a V-twin.

The bike I want, I cannot afford insurance-wise (Aprilia Futura), On the far opposite, a very affordable bike is the Honda Varadero 125, but I have serious doubts about its ability to haul my significant bulk and as the wife likes to come along occasionally I will probably give it a miss.

The best compromise I have found is the Suzuki SV650 available in un-faired or partially faired versions. These bikes have almost acquired cult status for their fun to ride and reliable nature. Being popular there are also lots of clubs/websites for the SV which usually means that a wealth of info and advice is readily available.

I haven't bought one though as I have yet to give up making my first choice affordable.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 12:46

Buying a bike - Robin Reliant

Trancer, if your wife likes to ride pillion I would try and get a two-up test ride on the SV650 before parting with your wedge. Like a lot of modern bikes the pillion seat has been replaced with a "Pillion Pad", Japans revenge for the atom bomb.

Few years ago I had a Honda Bros, beautiful V-twin which was one of the nicest bikes I have ever owned, but I had to get rid as SWMBO could only last 50 miles on the back before we had to stop and let her recover. That was on a bike with a pillion a fair bit more substantial than on most "Sports" bikes, but still a long way from being a realistic two-up proposition.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 13:15

Buying a bike - THe Growler

Tom/Trancer I think you can buy a custom seat (Corbin etc) for just about any bike. On my Hog I have two: a street seat with a narrow pillion which looks great and matches the line of the bike but which Herself hates (for reasons of delicacy I do not intend to go into why), then we have a Mustang seat with a cissy bar and luggage rack for longer hauls which she even occasionally naps on (the seat I mean, no the luggage rack...)

Changing the seat is one bolt and takes 5 mins.

I get all my stuff from the US. Maybe better choices there?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 14:02

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

"Honda Bros"

Is that what used to be called the Revere (and became the NTV650, then Deauville)? I couldn't find it in Used Bike Guide...

I also rather favour a V-twin, if only because it's one configuration I haven't had.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 17:01

Buying a bike - Robin Reliant

JBJ,

The Bros is very similar to the Revere/NTV650, but chain drive instead of shaft. They were never sold officially in this country and only came in as grey imports from people like BAT Motorcycles. Two engine sizes were available, 400 and 650.

Does anyone know if grey imports are sold in any number now, haven't heard much about them for a few years.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 12:26

Buying a bike - trancer

I do know the pillion seat on the SV is dire, and the newer models have an even smaller one. The older SV pillion is similar to that of my old TL1000S and the wife had no complaints about it, but then we only went for short rides.

Incidentally, Growler, the TL1000S had a Corbin (rider only)and it did make a world of difference, but the Futura (if I can make it happen) is like sitting in a living room couch so I doubt it will need one.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 13:24

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

That could be a factor, as I'd like to be able to carry passengers (well, one) occasionally. Are there 3rd-party ones for the SV that look reasonable?

I still find myself leaning toward the GS500 for that sort of reason. I know it's relatively old and clunky, but you have to remember that I'm coming from a bike whose engine design originated in 1923!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 19:19

Buying a bike - Robin Reliant

The Corbin website www.corbin.com lists a comfortable looking pillion seat for the SV650 at $159.00.

Any Corbin product can be ordered through Busters in Swansea, 08702 412040.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 13:25

Buying a bike - Insect

Don't forget the Honda NTV 650. V-twin, shaft drive, comfortable, plenty of torque, 200 miles/tank. Mine was well made and extremely reliable when I sold it with 110k on the clock. Mine was unfaired but there's a faired version called the Deauville too.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 14:16

Buying a bike - Garethj

One for the "Avoid" list, a Yamamha Diversion 600 (or 900). You can get more fun for your money with any of the options listed above.

Shaft drive is handy for not having to oil the chain every week, but I've got a Scottoiler on my Hornet which has an oil resvoir and injector and sprays a controlled fine mist of oil onto the chain when the engine is running. It also doubles chain life and reduces the amount of times you have to adjust it.

£2000 should get you an early Hornet (1998), almost any CB500, Bros or NTV or possibly a Fazer. In my opinion, Hondas tend to shrug off the years better - the Hornet's stainless exhaust manifold is still looking, well it still looks like an exhust manifold! But Fazers have had theirs welded and painted a few times by now.

I don't find that a fairing is needed, but you can get a nice choice of aftermarket ones for any bike if you feel the need. Cruising at 90mph is nice and easy without a fairing, going faster is easy for short periods but not what I want to do for a long time anyway.

Gareth

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 14:26

Buying a bike - Vansboy

Sounds like theres plenty of ideas, so far, but you might have a chat with Nick at www.forcemotorcycles.com He knows his stuff & deals with Police & MoD machines.

You wouldn't get me on one - not with all those people on the roads, anyway!!

VB

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 20:50

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Thanks, VB - I'd forgotten about them. The ex-MOD KLE500 looks a very good buy - I could be tempted by that.

The advice from everyone about Hornets, Fazers, SV650's etc. is also much appreciated. I like the look of the Hornet and the SV, but a dual-purpose machine is also tempting - decisions, decisions!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 14:24

Buying a bike - graham sherlock

Things to think about.
1. Do you want new or nearly new.
2. Check the insurance premiums on your proposed buy first.
3. It's not always sunshine. Get a faired bike.
4. Get it from a local dealership as they do need servicing believe it or not.

Personal choice given the money would be a Suzi SV650. Practical choice is my current Kawa ZZR600, less hooligan then the CBR600 I had & trashed. Country lanes etc.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 18:14

Buying a bike - GrumpyOldGit

Best all-rounder has to be the Fazer. Available as a 600 or a 1,000. Excellent in every way.

Alternatively go all-out like me and get a VMax. :) It is the absolute danglies. Everything they say about them is true, good and bad, but every time I ride it I have a big grin on my face. Amazing. Perhaps not ideal for commuting, but I guarantee you'd arrive at work happy! I do.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 21:15

Buying a bike - Thommo

Writing this from the SAS lounge at Thiefrow, had a few (free booze and I want to sleep on the flight) before I head off to Bangkok on Eva so not really compus mentis but don't dismiss the Triumph range.

Lovely triple engine and a range to suit all tastes from the Tiger(only for those over 6 foot) to the American version bonneville (suitable for pixeys). Call Jack Lilleys in Shepperton (if thats close enough) and they will take you through the range, no hassle, just service.

Tell David Lilley Thommo says hi!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 9 Jun 2004 23:59

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Not much for £2k, I suspect, but thanks for taking the trouble, Thommo. I rather like triples, but I think I'd like something really narrow this time, after the width of the BM!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 07:26

Buying a bike - THe Growler

This has been a very good thread and for my second string bike which I'm poking around for I've gained some good ideas myself from the posts. Thanks all for broadening my horizons. Of course when Ms Philippines gets her HD Sportster (supposedly in an Evergreen container somewhere on the Pacific...in bits....) I'll be nicking that when ever I can.

I am also a V-twin fan (my Dad had a Harley that frightened my Mum, maybe that's it) and I may take another look at that Suzuki V twin.

Those manic fours that need all that wind-up to wake up can't compete IMHO with that kick you get when you teach a V-twin a lesson at the traffic lights and surprise the bejesus out of the local rice boys. Shaft drive I've never liked after the torque wind-up on Growlette's little Virago -it also adds weight -- and I can't understand why more bikes don't have the maintenance free clean and totally reliable belt drive like the HD's. As for oily chains, really you would have thought it was not beyond the wit of mankind to progress beyond those in the 21st Century.

There's a Suzi 650 on my local bike Forum for sale. Might just take a look and change my mind about the Bandit.

Yes I always wanted a V-Max too (post '95 wasn't it before they made them go round corners?) but still a bit hefty for the run of the mill commmute IMO.

JBJ, see what you started, now you know you have to do this :+)

Your response eagerly awaited.

+

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 10:17

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

"see what you started, now you know you have to do this"

LOL! I'm very gratified by the response, although not wholly surprised, as the Back Room is always a mine of useful information, and bikers in particular are always friendly and enthusiastic (among themselves - possibly not towards all other road-users!).

I am a bit torn between a rice rocket and a V-twin, or even a single. The Bandit and Hornet do seem to have the characteristic split personalities - docile at low revs and mad at the top end, which does at least let you choose, but I also favour a bit of larger-bore grunt, so it's a dilemma, as ever.

Yours and everyone else's input is hugely appreciated - it's nice to be able to chew the fat with such an experienced and articulate band.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 10:19

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

I meant to add that I agree entirely about belt drives. I sense a conspiracy between the chain suppliers and bike makers...

(Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean there isn't anyone after me.)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 10:46

Buying a bike - Garethj

It's not usually the engine that's the wide part on a bike (other than a boxer 2 or 4!), an inline 4 cylinder 600 is pretty narrow. It's the width of the handlebars and mirrors which becomes important for squeezing through traffic, also where the mirrors (like on the Hornet) are higher than car mirrors but lower than van ones!

Filtering through traffic is also a lot to do with looking and thinking ahead. It's the fastest way to travel through any town / city / motorway and as traffic gets heavier the bike makes more and more sense.

Gareth

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 13:54

Buying a bike - stackman

To help you decide this month's Bike magazine has a 6 page used buyers guide for the SV650. They quote prices from £2000 onwards.

The mag also has a very comprehensive section giving brief details of all new and many used bikes including alternatives for each category.

On top of all that they are also giving away a free neck scarf.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 14:08

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Yes, I noticed the free scarf! I didn't buy it immediately, because I knew I'd end up drooling rather un-fetchingly over all the new stuff, but as the SV's on my short-list, I might have a look. About time I had a new scarf, anyway...

I also have to admit that I might have been a bit unkind to the Suzuki GS500. I saw a very nice one today - just over 2k miles and pounds, and almost as new (even some factory grease left in pillion foot-pegs). I know it's not fashionable, but it's easy to look after and not likely to get nicked.

Head and heart again, I guess...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 17:55

Buying a bike - GrumpyOldGit

Yes I always wanted a V-Max too (post '95 wasn't it

before they made them go round corners?) but still a bit

hefty for the run of the mill commmute IMO.

>>

No Growler, not '95 - they STILL don't go round corners! (or stop either. You tend to plan well ahead.)

They're not designed to handle like a racer of course. imo if I take a bend at 60 and a sports bike takes the same bend at 70, we're both on the limit and he's just as scared as me.

Great for commuting as it's quite narrow apart from the bars/mirrors, and they're above most car wing mirrors. It doesn't feel at all heavy as the c of g is so low. Try one - you'll love it! The acceleration is what it's all about with a VMax.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 21:14

Buying a bike - THe Growler

>>>No Growler, not '95 - they STILL don't go round corners! (or stop either. You tend to plan well ahead.)
------------------------------------

Someone at The Handle Bar where we all hang out told me you can get some sort of suspension kit which improves the handling of the V-Max and that there were some mods which made it more manageable? But as you say who cares if you can blast off anything in a straight line.....LOL

As for brakes, I think Performance Machines in the US probably does a kit. I've got a PM 6 pistons set on a single front disk on my Softail and 4 on the rear and I tell you that thing will stop on a coin even on a thin front street tyre. The original factory ones were only good for junk. Boy they cost though.

These days there is such a vast aftermarket in the US and with the Internet and DHL you can pretty much put to rights the shortcomings of most bikes with some kit or other.

It's a helluva bike that V-Max, indeed I was offered a '98 one in yellow recently by a homegoing expat at a bargain price. I dithered for 3 days only to find it was sold already. Also I'd already promised her new (s/h) bike to my oriental beauty so the timing would have been a bit off (6.2 on the Sulk Scale and get your own darn beer at least).

For JBJ who began this hope you get something you like. Yesterday I was looking at the recent KTM bought my a friend and that would really fit your bill I would think (although I would worry about spares back-up for these niche makes). Then I tried getting on it and I was on tippy-toe, just too high, and I'm not exactly small.

I guess you have also to consider insurance costs, I don't know how bad they are over there, where I live they're seriously major (is that a tautologous statement?)

I will give up my car if I ever have to, but they'll have to bury my bike next to me....

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 23:11

Buying a bike - Robin Reliant

Forget the V-Max, Growler. If you want real presence and style try the BMW RG1150 (Think I got the model right, you know the big trailie). Sat on one at a bike show last year and boy, is it huge!

Nearest you can get to being on the bridge of an aircraft carrier, and still handles like a sports bike. Also it is so damn ugly it is positively a work of art.

I want one!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 23:37

Buying a bike - lezebre

And there was me thinking I shouldn't have taken anything as big as my recently acquired Suzuki 500 2t twin off road. I saw this green lane stretching out towards the horizon and couldn't resist it. One thing about those older bikes, they do seem to lend themselves to a variety of purposes.

It was also happy to potter home for much of the way behind a canoodling couple dawdling in a cabriolet, yet the day before it had scared me when it hit the power band and I wasn't brave enough to keep accelerating when I spotted the front suspension decompressing..

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 00:07

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

"Suzuki 500 2t twin"

Which one's that - not the old 500 2-stroke, surely?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 21:09

Buying a bike - lezebre

Yes, the engine that in race tune powered Barry Sheene to most of his famous victories. Only he was more than happy to ride with the front wheel waggling in the air, of course.

The 'cooking' bike was a good all rounder, and has a reputation for suond engineering. It seems to me it would make a good commuter in spite of being twenty five years old, but I would be restricted to three months in the summer because there is no charge arriving at the battery. In daylight this is no problem at all, apparently the CDI ignition (it's a late model with disc brake also) generates its own spark completely independently of the charging system; and the battery powers the brake light, idicators and headlamp flasher for up to six weeks on a total loss basis. The left cylinder is slightly down on compression and runs hotter compared to the right, not badly I think, but I have to keep my eye on it (and my two fingers on the clutch lever!).
It's light for a bike with some grunt, and very narrow. Suzuki spoilt this with the california style bars, but mine no longer has these.

I can't wait til the next time i get on it, but prudence suggests a bit of a delay, because I twisted my ankle when I dropped it on that trail and it landed on my foot. No damage to the bike though!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 22:31

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

"No damage to the bike though"

That's all right, then - as long as it was just your foot! :-)

I pleased to hear of someone still running a big, bad 2-stroke. The smoke put people off, but at least the oil was designed to be burnt! (I had a 2-stroke car, once.)

By modern standards, the 500t was pretty small, IIRC. One of the reasons I like the current GS500 is that it is a bit lighter and lower than the Honda and Kwacker equivalents. It's no rocket ship, but these things are all relative, and by comparison with my lumpy old BM, it's very lithe.

Nice to hear of an old Suzi still going. I remember wanting one quite badly at the time!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 02:19

Buying a bike - THe Growler

Yes I know of one example here (Lord knows what they had to pay Customs under the table to get it into the country). Wouldn't suit JBJ, trying to filter that through traffic would be like trying to navigate the USS Nimitz up the Thames!

Plus I'd have to buy one of those pussy-suits to match it, and over the years I've got too used to my tatty, frayed, oft-repaired, oil-filled, distinctly odoriferous Hog vest and the worn down snakeskin cowboy boots......

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 10 Jun 2004 23:59

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

I know what you mean about the KTM, Growler. Nice bikes, but you need longer legs than mine! They're becoming relatively mainstream over here, I think, now that supermotos are fashionable, but they don't seem to cater for riders who need to stop and put their feet down...

I think a V-Max is probably a bit OTT for my sort of commuting, especially since I was looking for something relatively slender and light! I know it sounds rather dull, but I'm still tempted by the Suzi 500, which seems a decent compromise between urge, economy and handling. Insurance is not too much of a problem in my neck of the woods (and at my age!) but it is certainly a consideration - likewise fuel consumption, especially with a looming oil crisis. Oh dear - now I'm turning into my Dad :-(

BTW "seriously major" is not quite a tautology, and although I thought that it might still offend grammatically, my OED says that major is both an adjective and a noun (not just in the military sense), so you can award yourself a beer. Ah, you already have...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 09:26

Buying a bike - Garethj

If you're looking at the Suzuki 500 then also look at the Kawasaki ER5. Used by instructors everywhere they're pretty tough and good value too.

Doesn't have the urge of a 600 but no slouch compared to most cars and not a bad ride.

Gareth

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 10:44

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Thanks, Gareth. The bike shop with the Suzi had an ER5 a while ago, when I was just looking, of course! An OK bike, I think, although big for a 500 - the Suzi is a tad smaller, which would probably suit me better, although I realise that it's not as sophisticated. That's an advantage in my book, though, as I like tinkering...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Fri 11 Jun 2004 23:56

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

OK guys, decision (*almost) made. I hate to disappoint, but since economy and ease of maintenance are parts of the equation, I find myself drawn to the Suzuki GS500, especially as I have found a pristine example that I can afford. The same money would undoubtedly buy a faster Hornet/Bandit/Fazer/SV, but not in such nice condition, and with all that extra loony potential, I should either consume lots of fuel, chains and rubber, or kill myself.

I did have a go on a friend's MZ supermoto, which was a hoot, but I don't think I'd want to sit that upright for long periods. Nice to be able to see over the hedges, though!

Compared to my old BM, the Suzi is a revelation - my feet reach the ground, it is smooth and mechanically quiet (I was forever adjusting the tappets on the flat twin), it goes round corners and it actually stops! Air cooling may limit the power, but it removes the need for plumbing, pumps, radiators, thermostats and fans, and the big dual seat would probably take my entire family (which I expect it does in some parts of the world).

I know it's an old design, but it's a known quantity that still represents a conspicuous improvement over what I'm used to, and if I get more ambitious later, I can always start another thread...

Many thanks, BTW, for all the contributions to this one. I've really enjoyed reading your experiences, and it represents a most useful archive.

*The deal isn't quite done yet, as I'm keeping my powder dry until tomorrow. If it's sold, you can all have a good chortle at my expense!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 12 Jun 2004 00:43

Buying a bike - pastyman

A short answer to you question,

Honda, CB500/S, a bullet proof bike, parallel twin engine and you get around 200 miles before it starts to cough and you need to switch to reserve.
Reasonably cheap to maintain, regular oil changes with Castrol gps semi synth (every 4000 miles), a thoroughly reliable bike.
If you get one of the Japanese built models S/H, the build quility is excellent, mine was a 98 model built in Italy, still a sound purchase though.
Nuff said.

Pastyman......

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 12 Jun 2004 07:32

Buying a bike - THe Growler

JBJ:

You've heard a lot of "how about this?", now try a "definite no-no".

I was in my local biker drinker last night with my good mate Greg. Greg hails from Austin TX, weighs about 325 pounds, has about a 52" waistline, is a typical ebullient American and great company (we ride a lot together with our group (The Chosen Ones), eats half a BBQ-ed cow at one sitting and then goes back for seconds, has an achingly lovely girlfriend called Grace who is about 1/5th of his weight. One of the kindest most generous people you could meet.

The Friday night blues band there is superb (Filipino musical talent is exceptional) and they had just delivered a terrific rendition of Georgia On My Mind as a tribute to the late great Ray Charles and everyone was a bit subdued after a minute's silence for The Genius, when Greg announces hey man got me a great new bike for the commute.

We walk outside and there is this Honda Valkyrie. About the size of a small car. 6 cylinders with six voracious looking air intakes. I mean it makes the biggest Harley look quite modest. There's one on the HJ photo site if you want to check it out.
If you dropped it a small crane would be needed to pick it up.

Texans will be Texans I guess. Greg, you're nuts I say. You're a typical Septic. This is a commuter bike? For which I get a beer stuffed in my hand,a volley of guffaws and a whack across my shoulders which will leave me sore for days.

Absolutely no answer to your original question but as one biker to another it gave me a laugh.

Bikes open up a world of social contact, friendship and experience I guess.

Buy something, find some riding company and go looking for the horizon.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sat 12 Jun 2004 14:01

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Thanks for all your input, G. I did see pictures of the Valkyrie while I was browsing and I did think of you! I think I'll probably give it a miss...

That flat-six engine would be terrific in a small sports car or a trike, though.

I was sorely tempted by the SV650, which strikes me a fair copy of the smallest Ducati Monster, a bike that I would love if I was buying new, and had something more general-purpose to back it up (and to use in the winter). The Suzi 500 is not a bike that young men fantasise about, but it has a good enough real-world performance for ordinary mortals (it's still 200hp/ton with me on it), and is mechanically simple and promises to be durable if it's looked after.

Another (American) owner wrote the following, which I think sums it up nicely:

"The GS500 isn't fast, it isn't shiny, it isn't sexy, it doesn't have heritage, it isn't American, expensive, or exotic

So the question is... Why do I ride this slow, ugly, chick-bike?

Because it's fun....

It's un-assuming. It's anti-bling, and I love it for that. I can take off hit the corners, or blast across the state on the weekend, and then commute in the rain to work everyday. It's an honest bike. It's a bike I can fix without a computer. It's a bike that rewards good riding with excellent performance. It's a very capable bike in the right hands."

Which suits me.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 13 Jun 2004 01:46

Buying a bike - THe Growler

The most important thing is that you and your ride are comfortable with each other, so that sounds like a good choice.
All those reasons in your quote are exactly why I love my Softail. Although I admit being unable to park her up and walk away without a backward look....ain't love grand!

On our local bike bulletin board the same question as yours is often asked, this thread has provided some useful opinions. As a result I am going to look at 2 SV650's advertised locally....now that I think about it the Bandit is a bit of a buzz-box and I like some low-down grunt meself.

Just remember the shiny side goes up and the rubbery bits stay down ;+) and to post some of your experiences.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Sun 13 Jun 2004 20:28

Buying a bike - J Bonington Jagworth

Thanks, G. I have to admit that if I had found an SV or a Bandit in really nice order locally, I would probably have been tempted, but the bird-in-hand principle does make a difference. As it happens, I think Fate has been on my side and I shall have a machine that suits me better than an out-and-out sports bike.

I tend to agree about the buzziness of fours. I had one of the original Honda 400-4's, which ran sweetly enough, but there was an ever-present tingle, and the only four I've sampled that doesn't is the Blackbird, which I believe has a balancer shaft. No doubt things have improved (as I'm sure the Hornet/Fazer supporters will insist by return!) and maybe I shall revise my opinion in due course. I do notice that they seem to have their engines relatively high in the frame, though, which must raise the C of G somewhat.

Thanks for the closing advice :-) I will keep you posted...

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator

Will you have to pay the low emissions charge?