I have a mad idea to 'invest' say £4000 - £5000 in an old convertible - ideally a Triumph Vitesse mark 2 or a Morris Minor. I can change plugs and points but am no mechanic, so it would need to be fully restored.
The clubs have plenty for sale, but the question is whether maintaining it would cancel out any appreciation as an investment - but against that there is the fun factor.
Any thoughts? I rather hope Aprilia will comment as what we need is a realist who tells it as it is. If you do - is your name in honour of those wonderful old 30s Lancias?
I can see I'm being boring using my own name - but then I'm a chartered accountant and a training manager, so boring on both counts, especially as I actually enjoy my job!
Many thanks
David Duvall
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First thing you need to grasp is that cars like this, in this price range are NOT an investment. You wont be earning any money on them. - However, they are a hobby, a hobby you wont loose money on, a hobby to use and enjoy.
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Join the Classic Car Club for £2k and put the remaining £3k in a cash ISA or premium bonds.
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Join the Classic Car Club for £2k and put the remaining £3k in a cash ISA or premium bonds.
Pay the 3k off of the mortgage if you have one. If it is the right mortgage you can draw it back if and when you require.
Reg\'s m.
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It's not mad at all - rather sensible, I think. I speak as someone who has always had a classic as a second car - presently a Triumph 2000 for the last eight years. Previously a Saab 96, Stag, LandRover, Triumph Roadster, Triumph Mayflower.
My thoughts would be:
1) Buy it from a reputable restorer, or with some sort of inspection or vetting from a specialist. If you are not a mechanic you will be in their hands.
2) Join a club first and look around, talk to the area rep, get a feel for the market, the availability and the problems.
3) Keep it in a garage.
4) You will need to find a small versatile professional garage that you can trust with your servicing, more major work as it occurs, and general sympathy and appreciation of the needs and practicalities of old cars. Again a club may help with recommendations.
5) Don't think of it as an investment, just a way of having minimal or zero depreciation. Then you won't be disappointed, but will have lots of fun.
Good luck.
PS you don't have to be a chartered accountant to prefer your real name - I just don't like aliases.
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Another thought. You mention Vitesse or MM. They are rather different! The Morris is incredibly slow with a top speed of 65 or so. The Vitesse, especially with the 2 litre engine, is pretty nifty even by today's standards, and as a convertible will feel even faster than it is. It will do 100 and still give a kick in the back if you floor it at 70. So I'd think about what you really want your car to do. For me there'd be no choice between the two!
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Pay the 3k off of the mortgage if you have one. If it is the right mortgage you can draw it back if and when you require.
The guy\'s an accountant - it will be the right mortgage!
Buy a Morris 1000 as a starter project. You will learn an awful lot from its simple and straightforward mechanical bits.... Nothing can give as much pleasure as fixing a broken motor far more fun than watching you money grow.
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>> Pay the 3k off of the mortgage if you have one. If it is the >> right mortgage you can draw it back if and when you require. The guy\'s an accountant - it will be the right mortgage! Buy a Morris 1000 as a starter project. You will learn an awful lot from its simple and straightforward mechanical bits.... Nothing can give as much pleasure as fixing a broken motor far more fun than watching you money grow.
Lots of businesses get into loads of doo doo through accountants doo doo advice and inertia. Thankfully mine isn't one of them.
Regards Pug'.
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Join the Mustang Owners' Club of GB and get yourself a 64½ to 66 Mustang V-8 (not the 6 cyl). All parts easy to get, great looking car, loads of support fromn the Owners' Club, goes like a rocket and will attract serious attention.
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Should also have said it might actually appreciate -- I sold mone for more than I paid.
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As others have said, you are unlikely to make much of a gain on owning a Vitesse for a few years. By the time maintenance etc. is taken into account it will end up costing you money so you need to mentally 'write off' your investment at the time of purchase. Consider anything you get back in later years to be a bonus!
Having said that, the Vitesse is a good one to go for. Its fairly swift (by the stardards of its day), parts are readily available, there is a good club (Triumph Sports Six Club), and any small garage will be able to maintain it for you at low cost - there are no 'awkward' jobs on it, everything is low-tech and straightforward. As cheap usable classics go, it one of the best to go for.
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I have a mark 1 2 litre vitesse convertible. It costs me buttons to run. £120 pa for classic insurance with aon, unlimited mileage and business use. Parts are pretty cheap and most things you can get hold of. You can't get pukka vitesse bonnets though, people usually get a herald bonnet and alter it. club.triumph.org.uk/ is another club and is for any kind of triumph not just the 6 cylinder ones. I paid £3200 for it 5 years ago, then recently restored. It is still worth what I paid for it so no significant losses (the free road tax status is also a bonus :-) ) Make sure it has overdrive otherwise it seems noisy.
The weekend of 11th July I think it is there is the triumph international event at the Stafford County showground. If you go along to that should be hundreds of triumphs to drool over and probably a few for sale too. There are usually quite a few at Tatton park classic car show too. You've just missed the June one but there is another one in August.
teabelly
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Simple answer is "NO" you are not being an idiot. If it brings a smile to your face like the couple I saw driving a Sunbeam Talbot Alpine the other day or the old girl (70ish?) who drives round our village in an MGB (A reg?) then go for it and when all said and done you could spend more on fags and booze going to the pub in a year than it will cost you. enjoy!
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I have to agree with what most other posters have said. You are being an idiot if you think of the car as an investment, but as a fun place to put some spare cash it makes a lot of relatively inexpensive sense.
If you want an investment though, ask why there are no Triumph Vitesses for sale in your local bank branch...
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Many thanks everyone for your help.
'Investment'is only a figure of speech and I wouldn'r expect to make much if anything over a few years. But one might reasonably expect not to lose in terms of capital value: it should be the fun factor which outweighs the cost of upkeep.
Glad to hear that the Vitesse is seen as a good idea from both the fun and upkeep points of view. I remember a work colleague some years ago who spent a fortune on having a 1939 Daimler professionally restored - and then discovering it was a complete bore to drive.
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It certainly will be fun. The 11 seconds 0-60 time quoted by Practical Classics doesn't fully reflect the fact that these big sixes have incredible pulling power in the mid-speed range. If you drop out of overdrive at 50-60 and put your foot on the floor you will surprise a lot of drivers in modern cars.
At the other extreme it will pull smoothly from 10 mph in top, and you can do all your driving just flicking in and out of overdrive.
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