Apparently Landrover are recalling over 68,000 Freelanders due to handbrake and wiring loom problems.
That's a lot of parts to change. Models from 1997 to March 2001 are affected.
Colin
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I've been looking at Freelander versus Rav 4, CRV and new Nissan X Trail. F/Lander looks good on paper and in the flesh but could you seriously buy one and not expect it to go wrong. Genuine, honest replies please. I'd only get a 4x4 with a view to moving to colder, snowier part of the country (N.Yorks) and wonder if it's a good idea to have the extra traction. Any other suggestions. Prefer diesel. There's lot's to choose from but don't want to have to spend a fortune in running costs and depreciation. Thanks in anticipation.
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> I'd only get a 4x4
> with a view to moving to colder, snowier part of the country
> (N.Yorks) and wonder if it's a good idea to have the extra
> traction.
You can't use "Freelander" and "Extra traction" in the same sentence unless you include the words "hasn't got".
Awful car.
M.
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Mark,
The two in our village have no problems with the school car park, so what's the problem? ;-)
Colin,
I wonder how far you will have to go in this 4WD. Is it just to get to work/shops a few miles or once you decide you need 4WD will you then be going hundreds of miles in it?
Mark knows where this is going!
David
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> but could you seriously buy one and not expect it to go
> wrong. Genuine, honest replies please.
And from a slightly more proactive point of view. I only have personal experience of one Freelander, which is now 1 year, two months old. My feelings about its performance to one side, simply from a reliability point of view...
+1 month - Radiator hose fell off, dump all coolant, about a week later another fell off and closer investigation showed that none of the hose pipes under the bonnet had been tightened when it was built.
+ 2 months - Sunroof failed. Fortunately the weather was good, since it stayed failed for a month while they looked for the bits.
+ 4 months - happened again
+ 6 months - "go down hill slowly" mechanism failed. Two months for bits.
+ 9 months - remote locking failed
+ 9 months - passenger seat collapsed, one of the runners fell to bits.
+ 10 months - failed to start for a day. Never explained, not recurred.
I have no idea of the price of a 4-Runner in the UK, but that's what I'd recommend.
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Also, there is a difference betweeen "extra traction" and assuming a large off-roader (even a small pretend one) is appropriate.
Frequently no extra ground clearance or strength is needed, and the answer is simply access to 4WD. This is probably best addressed by things like the Subaru.
If you are after the larger vehicle, then the Freelander would not be my recommendation. I do accept that I require rather more of a 4WD than most, but even so the Freelander is awful. It is not even, to my mind, comfortable or well thought out even as a normal road car.
The others you mention I have no experience of.
However, I do like the larger 4Wd, as I mentioned the 4-Runner for example. Its just neccessary to remember that they do not handle, or stop, like a "normal" car.
I guess it comes down to what you actually intend to do with the vehicle.
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Many thnaks, Colin. Now assded to car by car breakdown.
HJ
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Freelander,latest in a long line of total junk.In that sector the choice has to be made from CRV,RAV,Pajero Pinin or maybe the new Nissan.I have had plenty RAV and CRV and can report not one problem.Have the people at LR never seen a small Japanese 4x4?
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Mark may know where this is going, but you've lost me. I was really looking for practical advice and opinion, given my lack of experience with 4x4's.
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Sorry KB lets start again......
I wonder how far you will have to go in this 4WD. Is it just to get to work/shops a few miles or once you decide you need 4WD will you then be going hundreds of miles in it?
David
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Thanks Mark,
It's to be used as a normal road car would be, plenty local use but occasional trips down the M1. It just seemed a good idea to consider the snow and ice (and now flood) conditions associated with that area. Not to used off road at all.
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> It's to be used as a normal road car would be, plenty local use but occasional trips down the M1. It just seemed a good
> idea to consider the snow and ice (and now flood) conditions associated with that area. Not to used off road at all.
Virtually anybody else here knows what is available on the UK market better than I, how speaking generally.
A 4WD Truck, rather than car, whichever level you are talking of, 4-Runner, Cherokee, Blazer, Explorer, RAV4 or whatever have some characteristics you need to consider.
They use more fuel
They don't stop very quickly
They don't go very fast
They are noisier
They depreciate quickly
They get mistreated
They are typically less well equipped
And it goes on. I like driving, and owning them for a few reasons. I *do* go off road and the extra clearance is neccessary as are the larger wheels. I live on bad roads where high speeds are not normally possible. Traffic is lighter, for the most part, so their size isn't an inconvenience. I carry large dogs. Also, I *like* driving them and I can afford to do so.
However, from what you are saying, it doesn't sound that a truck is what you should buy unless you flat out want one.
I would have thought a 4wd car was going to be much more in your line. Which one ? I have no idea.
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There's a Skoda 4x4 which got very good reviews and is not expensive despite being a Passat (I think) under the skin. Also, you could try a gas guzzler and convert it to LPG which is half the price of petrol. The Nissan Patrol is good value though the springs are hard. Range Rovers are still pretty good too.
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Octavia is based on a Golf chassis.
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KB
One issue usually missed by owners of bigger 'go anywhere' 4WD's that never get off-road is that there is other traffic. Now, all the off road ability in the world is damn all use if the local snowbound bypass is chock full of 'normal' cars totally stationary.
They are really only any good when you're the only car on the road (or off it) or pulling the horsebox out of the field.
If most of your travelling is on road, by all means considera 4wd car, but just remember you'll still be held up in traffic - it just won't be you that causes the jam!
Regards
John
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Thanks again.
Seems to make sense. I'll do some more homework on 4x4 cars.
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If it's for road use I'd look at a scooby. Certainly rides better than VW/Audi 4-motion/quattro's I've tried. The air intake on the Legacy is as high as it's possible to put it and still be under the bonnet, although I'd guess you could still be caught out by a major bow-wave. I've watched an Outback pull a horse box out of a field without any difficulty, after a Disco (admitedly the old gutless model) gave up. Also manual Subaru's have a neat hill-holder clutch, no need to use handbrake for hill starts. Does anyone know how this works? Looking at previous threads I assume the clutch release bearing is up to holding the clutch down as releasing the clutch releases the hill-holder.
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I seem to remeber Autocar doing a comparison between a normal Audi A4 and a four-wheel drive version.
Their verdict, after driving both in all kinds of weather, was that there was little justification for the four-wheel drive version.
As has already been pointed out, four-wheel drive means higher purchase price, higher fuel consumption, higher servicing costs, higher insurance, more bits to go wrong...
If your a good driver, then two-wheel drive is more than adequate.
Andy
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KB,
For your intended use I think Andy P is right. There are several angles to 4WD, the performance car such as Audi, the off-road capable type such as the Subaru Legacy Estate and the true off-roaders in the Discovery mould.
On the road, wet or dry, it is true you can't go much faster with a 4WD car such as the Audi...the 2WD versions already have immense capability. These types of car are fine for slippery grass but useless in deep mud or deep snow.
The Subaru Legacy is a brilliant combination of car and 4WD, it is aimed more at the farmer/country dweller and biased to rougher off-road use than the Audi types. Our farmer cousin has one of the old Subaru 1800 pick-ups (same as the estate of the time) which she bought new 16 years ago. This has served well on a very hilly farm, in fact the small size and light weight often prove an advantage beside the more traditional Land Rover/Daihatsu/Shogun other farmers in the area use. It's just more nimble. There is a fuel consumption and overall cost penalty even with this type of 4WD car.
The large off-roaders in the Discovery/Shogun/Trooper range have a huge cost penalty compared with a normal car, both to buy and to run. The only real justification for these is if you need to use them in deep mud/snow or on deeply rutted tracks. However if the running costs are affordable to you or the company is paying there can be a high level of satisfaction driving them.
The angle I was comming round to was that if you had a genuine need for a "real" off-roader a few days a year, and for short runs, keeping an old Series Land Rover is a serious option. A SWB diesel around 1970 will be cheap to insure, no RFL, 30mpg and cost about £1200. There is no depreciation issue, parts are cheap and available everywhere...also there's a good Forum where tech queries are answered in hours from all over the world. Just remember what I've said before about them...they are not a car, more a mode of transport!
In true difficult conditions, and I don't mean puddles/gravel on the M25, the ability of an off-road 4WD is incredible and it is possible to talk the arguement that it was worth driving it all year for that one hour when you needed it. Having said that we haven't seen conditions here that needed a 4WD (in our normal road use) for years and years.
David
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There doesn't seem to be any justification for purchasing a 4x4 for road use as they are just not suitable. I've been taken on an off road course in a Landcruiser and done things that would make your eyes pop out. The problem is if I spent 40k on a landcruiser (or 20k on a freelander for that matter) the last place I would want to take my expensive new car would be off road.
For road use on the other hand look for 4x4 versions of normal cars such as Subarus, the Octavia 4x4, Volvo cross-country, Audi allroad. To get an idea of what you really need go to any european ski resort where you won't find that many off roaders but you will see 4x4 versions of all sorts of conventional cars. Why they even made a 4x4 mondeo for a while.
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> keeping an old Series Land Rover is a serious option.
David,
Its a compulsion, isn't it ? You just can't help yourself with the Land Rovers. As you said, I *knew* you'd get there.
How young were you when you acquired this addiction and fascination with all things green & steel ?
Mark.
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Mark,
First ride in one at 6yrs old. Then a gap of 25 years before I experienced one again. Restored three a few years back, noe working on two more.
Given we have a genuine use for them the ultimate classic. A vehicle you could own for the whole of your life. Rust never an issue, either cosmetic or structural. So rugged and everything very simple to DIY.
Do I need more therapy?
David
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I'm most grateful to you all for your advice - much food for thought. I've certainly ruled out the F/Lander and will either stick to 2wd or at least confine my thoughts to the Subaru/Octavia approach.
(It was actually the N.Y.Moors or possibly Dales areas that beckon to us, after 50 years around London), hence the likelihood of difficult winter conditions. Does anyone happen to hail from those parts? Thanks again.
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PS. Why don't Subaru do a diesel? or Skoda, a diesel 4x4 Octavia (it only comes as a 2 litre turbo). The Audi and Vovo oil burners referred to cost around £30,000. I saw that Renault do a 4x4 Kangoo in diesel!!!!. I don't really fancy something that does 22 mpg. I must be the most awkward bugger to appear on this column for ages.
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PS. Why don't Subaru do a diesel?
Wish I knew, they used to. My 2.5 Legacy does just over 27mpg in normal use and ~32 on a run.
I'm waiting to see if the 3.0 flat six spreads across the range, local dealer claims there's a forthcoming Imprezza twin turbo with this engine - EVO's watch out?
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Subarus are singular in that the use Boxer engines, hence nobody elses diesel engines will fit in their cars. I imagine it is impracticle for them to develop their own boxer diesel. Pity because a AWD legacy diesel estate sounds like an attractive proposition if they could fit a good modern engine to it.
I note that of all the 4wd cars (as opposed to off-roaders on the road) only audi offer one with a diesel engine (A4 or A6 2.5 Tdi) whilst I'm sure this is a good engine it is well out of my price range.
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I grew up in that part of Yorkshire, and unless you live a couple of miles from metalled roads, or you have to drop kids off at school ;-) you won't need 4x4. It's not Siberia, you know. The scooby pickup is a favourite of farmers, but then they need to drive across fields to drop off bales, rescue animals and so on. Quite often, though, they manage with a knackered old Escort van or similar. Most people just drive normal cars, and when it snows on the tops they take a longer route home - sometimes much longer. Roads where the snow plough doesn't go are closed to everybody: if it's that snowy, stay at home. But you'll be really unlucky to have weather that bad for more than a week in any given year, spread out a day or two here a day there.
In the eighteen years I lived there the only time I remember getting stuck in, or even much troubled by, snow was when a huge drift had gathered on an otherwise clear road, with clear fields all round as well. Round the corner we came and wallop: engine bay full of snow, and no more driving until it melted a week later.
Chris
PS Buy a BX or Xantia, then if it does get deep, up on stilts you go, waving at the bottoming-out Freelanders. Problem solved.
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Thanks ChrisR. Incidentally, I see you use One.Tel for your internet. Is that the 1p a min. or the £12.99 a month unlimited? I'm about to change to either :- One Tel unlimited, or AOL . Sorry to deviate from original subject, but others may benefit from your views.
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I vary between One-tel 1p per minute (they have an incentive to keep the connection speed good) and ntl's flat rate plus free calls (less reliable, but much cheaper for protracted surfing). Don't know about the flat-rate deal from One-tel, but I'd worry that the speed/reliability may not be as good.
Cheers
Chris
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