Most of the dealers I visit have a notice board in the workshop listing hours(labour)booked, achieved, warranty hours, and targets and percentages achieved.
Of the ones that I looked at last week, the proportion of warranty hours compared to total hours were as follows:-
Toyota - 1%
Honda - 10%
Hyundai - 12%
BMW - 43%
MB - 47%
This was obviously on one week, but it sure tells a story.
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Based on recent satisfaction/reliability surveys I have read I would expect the BMW figure to be way lower than that and the MB to be the worst but not as bad as that.
What job do you do visiting dealers? In my experience warranty info like that is well hidden and only available to people in the know...
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Hi,
I don't quite understand what story it tells. All the work (=100%) they do at the dealer is fixing cars, right? So BMW do 43% of their repairs under warranty and Toyota do 99% of their repairs _out_ of warranty.
I'll have the Merc - it sounds like Toyotas fall apart after the warranty period, and they don't do anything under warranty.
I know this isn't what you're trying to say, but I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.
Cheers,
Mark
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"All the work (=100%) they do at the dealer is fixing cars, right?"
Errr what about preparation , servicing? MOTs?
madf
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I fix BMWs all day long, what do I drive home in? A 14 year old Toyota. Its more reliable.
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I fix BMWs all day long, what do I drive home in? A 14 year old Toyota. Its more reliable.
I've done engineering consultany work for BMW. What do I drive? Two Nissans (can't beat the Japs, unfortunately) and a Mercedes. Mind you, I'd better shut up otherwise I might not be getting any more fat cheques from Munchen..!
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Question for Aprilla.
Why in your opinion has german car reliability fallen over the years. What has gone wrong?
Thanks for any replies.
Rgds. Kal
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Question for Aprilla. Why in your opinion has german car reliability fallen over the years. What has gone wrong? Thanks for any replies. Rgds. Kal
Couple of factors.
Many German suppliers have moved at least part of their production outside Germany (mainly to Eastern Europe) in an effort to cut costs. I have visited a couple of these facilities and in some cases they have serious problems in terms of employee relations/motivation/training. Although modern production technology relies on a high degree of automation, it is still important to have a well-educated and diligent workforce - this is not always the case in Eastern Europe.
Secondly, German cars have not actually been especially high-tech in the past (e.g. M-B didn't start using electronic fuel injection until the mid-1990's) and a lot of their designs were fairly traditional. Look underneath a BMW E34 and an MB W124 and you can see that these cars were designed from the same paradigm.
Recently, these companies have gone high-tech and installed lots of electronics and complex 'added value' features. The Japanese have decades of experience in high-volume, high-quality but low-cost electronics - they have the designers and production facilites to do the job. The German's (and Europeans in general, in fact) don't have this experience and struggle to produce electronic systems of the required quality to a low enough cost.
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I'll have the Merc - it sounds like Toyotas fall apart after the warranty period, and they don't do anything under warranty.
Better than falling apart *during* warranty, surely?
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Ok, I see what you mean now - low warranty %age means less repairs, more routine servicing.
>Better than falling apart *during* warranty, surely?
I'd rather have the niggles sorted out while I'm not paying for them.
Cheers,
Mark
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"I'd rather have the niggles sorted out while I'm not paying for them"
A properly built and designed car has no "niggles".
I find it unacceptable when buying a new car to find:
loose trim
failing mechanics
poor paint
ALL should have been sorted before it left the factory, let alone the dealer's PDI.
If they cannot be bothered then think what it will be like when it is out of warranty and delaer and manufacturer have no financial liability.
Low warnnty claims = good cars. Full stop imo.
madf
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