Still searching for my wife's next car - current;y she has a Honda Jazz - excellent but not quite enough oomph.
Anyone got any experience of the Honda Civic S-type (2 litre) or the Mercedes A-class: the A140 wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding but the 160 and diesel 170 should be better.
From what I read people seem to be pleased with their Hondas
(as we are) but disappointed with their Mercs.
(I still think the Skoda Fabia vRS is ideal for her needs, but she won't be seen in one. And she's not having my Audi A4 Avant 2.5 TDI - it's the best car of the 15 I've had in 35 years!)
David Duvall
|
have driven merc a160 and its quite slow. sister has a a170 diesl, ok, but still not very fast.
i think honda's are excellent, love the new accord, and friend has just brought a civic type R - crazy speed! quality is spot on as well as customer service.
|
|
|
|
I have an S type Civic. Goes very quickly when wound up, and seems to like doing it! With 160ps would see off any standard A Class if outright acceleration is important. How fast, and in what manner? The petrol engined Honda appeals when in the mood for revs, but thats not all that important if your mileage is Mway/A road. Sometimes you just need to press the throttle and know it will go: with the Honda you have to drop a gear or two, and it makes a racket, which may be thrilling but can cloy. Sometimes a diesel gives you a smoother transition overall: i.e you can pull hard and stay in the same gear.
|
Shame about the Skoda. Is the Seat Ibiza an equally hopeless cause?
Personally I would take just about any car, right down to the Kia Rio (maybe) over an A-Class.
|
Shame about the Skoda. Is the Seat Ibiza an equally hopeless cause?
FWIW I used to own an Ibiza TDI 130 Sport (= Fabia vRS, in mechanical terms). Nearly wrote it off, but that's another story. They are nice-looking little cars and Seat doesn't seem to have quite the image problem that Skoda does. Also, in terms of straight-line poke there is little to touch it for the money - in-gear acceleration away from roundabouts etc is very strong indeed and will embarrass a lot of ostensibly faster cars.
****BUT****
IMHO, the handling is average, bordering on dodgy, for such a nippy machine - dreadful understeer, and the brakes could use improvement. However, that is my opinion, and I am quite prepared to believe that I had a naff example.
As regards the Honda, I recently bought a 1.6 5-door. Very nice car - comfortable, loads of room in it and ample poke, although as others have said it needs revving. Not a problem for me - I like the snarling noise VTEC engines make!
And personally, I wouldn't touch an A-class with a barge-pole!
|
|
|
|
I drove an A-Class in Germany when they first came out. Was not very impressed - very knobbly ride and a lot of road noise on the autobahn.
There have been improvements since, but I'm not a fan. Ride is still not good and RHD models have an odd feel to the steering because the column follows a contorted route to the LHS of the car.
I don't like the feel of them at speed either - doesn't inspire confidence.
I have never actually driven the Civic, but as a passenger I thought it was rather better than the A-Class - still quite a firm ride though.
|
|
There is a new A class out end of this year which should be light years ahead of the current one
|
|
|
|
|
About 18 months back they gave me a Mercedes A Class at LHR. I knew something wasn't going to be right when my daughter starting laughing at it. Sure enough it felt so vulnerable in traffic and handled so badly, let alone the ludicrous appearance, that I took it back after 15 minutes and got a proper car. Reminds me of those Isetta bubble cars of the '60's.
|
drove 2 A class as a trial.
Nice finish, high seating: great for school runs.
If you enjoy driving, you will not with an A class. Handling nil point, ride on rough roads nil points,
madf
|
|
What anout the Audi A2 - the new TDi 1.4 has 90BHP ....
|
I did my driving test in an A class and even then I thought it was awful. It was really slow, drove like a van, was noisy and wasn't the easiest to drive. My fathers camry 1985 diesel with 250k miles drove better, even though it is 18 years old.
Test driving a Honda, I think they are much better. Also, they are much more reliable than the merc's.
|
Also, what about a Honda Jazz - it has an amazing amount of space for a small car.
I read somewhere that the Civic Type S has poor handling, but the 1.4 and 1.6 Civics I've been driven have been fine.
|
|
The Jazz is also £4500 less at basic spec and does 49mpg compared to the Merc's 39mpg, and it's several groups lower (insurance).
|
Drove an A2 as well. Nil points for fore and aft visibility.
A triumph of design over function.
Ride poor.
Bargepole jobbie imo
madf
|
|
|
|
Quoting from the original post -
Still searching for my wife's next car - currently she has a Honda Jazz - excellent but not quite enough oomph.
I don't think a Jazz is on the list... :-)
Chad.
|
:-)
Must remember to read all the post, first
....someone delete what I\'ve written please.
I would, but as people have replied to your post it would take their\'s with it. Treat it as a learning experience..... :o) ND
|
|
|
|
|
|
I speak from plenty of experience of an A160, but none of a Honda.
The A class is not a performance car. The A160 is nippy and responsive and, IMHO, an excellent town car.
Don't bother using it for very long journeys as the legroom is small and the seats are too upright. But, then again, its no longer than a Clio and given its size is very versatile. We have had plenty of occasions to be thankful for the large flat load area that can be created. SWMBO has used it for the last three years, mainly for school/nursery runs and is very pleased with it. She also loves the high driving position - she is 5'1".
Suspension is a compromise in view of the car's height and does mean that it is not suited to fast winding country roads with plenty of opposite lock. Frankly, I'd be scared witless.
We are now selling it (on autotrader now), because we have moved and most of her journeys are now longer, more countrified, and more hilly (I mean serious hills). Her A160 is certainly capable of this but she would prefer something more substantial and effortless.
For information, even if no-one buys it through autotrader and we take the trade-in value, it will have cost me less to run over the three years than a Focus or equivalent. For the same money, therefore, I have been able to put my wife and children in a car with a 4 star NCAP rating, one that has a number of unique features that, IMO, make it distincively safer. Say what you like, I will not regret this.
If you're after a fast and furious hatch then the Type S wins hands down. A practical town car, on the other hand ... I'd say whichever one you prefer the looks of.
|
|
Type S is fine in town, as the 2 litre pulls quite well - firm ride but quite controlled. Wouldn't say it was "fast and furious" - not like a real hot hatch such as the Type R or Clio 172. Its smooth and tractable: you could drive it in the low and midrange with reasonable response and never guess its naughty side existed. Until you hit 5000rpm:)
|
|
|
[snip]Suspension is a compromise in view of the car's height and does mean that it is not suited to fast winding country roads with plenty of opposite lock. Frankly, I'd be scared witless.
Ummm, this isn't the first time I have encountered this term.
So, please can some kind person explain (in simple terms) what "opposite lock" is?
I thought that "lock" was something to do with turning the steering wheel until it hits the stops. Surely if the driver turns the steering wheel in the opposite direction to that where she wants to go, then she will ... ummm ... find herself proceeding in the wrong direction?
Or is that just overly simplistic female logic?
(If I'm right, maybe I have hit on an explanation for why my uncle landed various cars in ditches during his formative years. I used to think that he was just going too fast, but maybe he was trying these manly advanced driving techniques ... )
|
Or is that just overly simplistic female logic?
No I think you have got it about right..
Perhaps your question should have been "opposite to what?".
|
|
|
So, please can some kind person explain (in simple terms) what "opposite lock" is?
It's the newer term for "steering into the skid".
Say you are going round a left bend too fast in a rear drive car. The rear wheels are likely to lose traction first and will then head for the outside of the bend, i.e. to the right. Result is that the car's direction veers towards the centre of the bend - "oversteer". To correct it, you need to steer right (or reduce the left steer that is applied), opposite to the bend - hence "opposite lock".
Similar comments apply to understeer in front drive vehicles.
Racing drivers use this technique to go around the bend on the absolute limit of traction. Mere mortals use it as a means of going into the other hedge when they get things badly wrong.
|
It's the newer term for "steering into the skid".
Thanks for the explanation! That was very clear.
So now I geddit: when you're driving too fast, "opposite lock" is a way of driving into the hedge on the right rather than the one on the left ;-)
I suppose whether this is a good idea it depends on who's in the passenger seat ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
