Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle

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Tue 9 Mar 2004 13:21
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - pdc {P}
Noticed a small white disc in the window of the Air Cadet minibus that I sometimes drive the other day. None of the other squadron staff understand what 'priviledges', if any, it gives us.

It's a Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Permit Vehicle, with the title of Small Bus Disc.

Does this mean we can use bus lanes?
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Tue 9 Mar 2004 13:24
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - pdc {P}
Forgot to mention that I realise that a section 19 permit means the vehicle can only be used as a minibus when carrying passengers from the organisation it was issued to, and no-one else.

It's the bus lane question I'm interested in!
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Tue 9 Mar 2004 13:27
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - Mapmaker
Transport Act 1985 - section 19

Permits in relation to use of buses by educational and other bodies

(1) In this section and sections 20 and 21 of this Act?

?bus? means a vehicle which is adapted to carry more than eight passengers;

?large bus? means a vehicle which is adapted to carry more than sixteen passengers;

?small bus? means a vehicle which is adapted to carry more than eight but not more than sixteen passengers; and

?permit? means a permit granted under this section in relation to the use of a bus for carrying passengers for hire or reward.


(2) The requirements that must be met in relation to the use of a bus under a permit for the exemption under section 18(a) of this Act to apply are that the bus?

(a) is being used by a body to whom a permit has been granted under this section;


(b) is not being used for the carriage of members of the general public nor with a view to profit nor incidentally to an activity which is itself carried on with a view to profit;


(c) is being used in every respect in accordance with any conditions attached to the permit; and


(d) is not being used in contravention of any provision of regulations made under section 21 of this Act.


(3) A permit in relation to the use of a small bus may be granted by a body designated by an order under subsection (7) below either to itself or to any other body to whom, in accordance with the order, it is entitled to grant a permit.

(4) A permit in relation to the use of a small bus may be granted by a traffic commissioner to any body appearing to him to be eligible in accordance with subsection (8) below and to be carrying on in his area an activity which makes it so eligible.

(5) A permit in relation to the use of a large bus may be granted by a traffic commissioner to any body which assists and co-ordinates the activities of bodies within his area which appear to him to be concerned with?

(a) education;


(b) religion;


(c) social welfare; or


(d) other activities of benefit to the community.


(6) A traffic commissioner shall not grant a permit in relation to the use of a large bus unless satisfied that there will be adequate facilities or arrangements for maintaining any bus used under the permit in a fit and serviceable condition.

(7) The Secretary of State may by order designate for the purpose of this section bodies appearing to him to be eligible in accordance with subsection (8) below and, with respect to any body designated by it, any such order?

(a) shall specify the classes of body to whom the designated body may grant permits;


(b) may impose restrictions with respect to the grant of permits by the designated body and, in particular, may provide that no permit may be granted, either generally or in such cases as may be specified in the order, unless there are attached to the permit such conditions as may be so specified; and


(c) may require the body to make returns with regard to the permits granted by it.


(8) A body is eligible in accordance with this subsection if it is concerned with?

(a) education;


(b) religion;


(c) social welfare;


(d) recreation; or


(e) other activities of benefit to the community.

Not sure that helps you much...


(9) A body may hold more than one permit but may not use more than one bus at any one time under the same permit.
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Tue 9 Mar 2004 13:34
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - DavidHM
According to this site: tinyurl.com/2ll42
s.19 is a way of allowing people to provide transport services to members of a select group of people (i.e., Air Cadets) without requiring a full operator's licence. The Air Cadets group has presumably obtained this right in the past; check to make sure if there is a limitation date on the disc!

As for being able to use bus lanes - well you may be, but I think that bus lane rules are governed by the local authority rather than by any statute, beyond the one delegating that power of course. In some areas you may have exemption as the DfT guidelines allow for a limited private bus service to be operated to residents without transport, for instance, in which case any such LA would wish to enable that service to use bus lanes. However in general that may be asking for a bit too much joined up government.

I think, by virtue of the fact that it's a minibus, you would be exempt from the Congestion Charge too. There's a chance you may be exempt from Vehicle Excise Duty although I don't have time to look into those regulations for you.
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Tue 9 Mar 2004 15:46
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - Dwight Van Driver
DavidHM has about covered it.

The White disc provides an exemption from PSV Operators Licence and PSV Group Driving Licence providing not more than 16 carried.

As to bus lanes? These prohibitions come about as a result of an Order by the LA and it will depend what they put in the Order.
A sample one I have seen on the Web mentions no vehicle other that a "bus" (plus other exempt vehicles) can use a lane. But "bus" is not defined. Under S.19 above and Con and Use Regs
"bus" is defined as a m/veh constructed or adapated to carry more than 8 seated passengers in addition to the driver. So, presumably when used by pdc with his Air Cadets he can use the lane unless the Order specifically states not. There is the counter argument that as it is exempt O Licence then it isn't a bus so cannot use. Guess we need PU with his wig on to give guidance.

Vehicle Excise Licence - if it a vehicle owned by The Crown doesn't need.

Congestion Charge - Exemption or Discounted rate for vehicles with 9 or more seats but registration with CC required (download form on web)

DVD
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Wed 15 Apr 2009 17:43
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - AmandaH
Hi

Know you're only interested in using bus lanes and the answer is yes a minibus or large bus operating with a Section 19 Permit can use a bus lane so long as there aren't the words 'Local' written on the sign for the bus lane.

A Section 19 Permit allows the body holding the permit to make a charge (hire or reward) to it's passengers. The legislation has recently changed (6th April 2009) and now Section 19 permits come in a coupld of differing variations. A Standard Permit can be used on a vehicle up to 16 passenger seat capacity (this includes MPVs which previously could not be operated using Permits) and a Large Bus Permit for vehicles with a carrying capacity over 16 passenger seats. **DavidHM wasn't quite correct with his answer above**

The body holding the permit has to be a non-profit making body (registered charity / company limited by gurantee) that is concerned with: education; religion; social welfare; recreation (small bus permits only) or other activities of benefit to the community.

Their passengers have to fall in to the Classess of Passengers specified on the actual disc and permit i.e.
A - members of the body holding the permit,
B - persons whom the body exists to benefit and persons assisting them,
C -disabled persons or persons who are serioulsy ill, and persons assisting them,
D - pupils or students of any school, college, university or other educational establishment and staff or other helpers accompanying them,
E - Persons living within a geographically defined local community, or group of such communities, whose public transport needs are not met other than by virtue of service provided by the body holding this permit.

A permit vehicle can not carry a member of the general public!

There are also restrictions on who can and can't drive these vehicles depending on when they passed their driving test and in what capacity they are driving.....

Amanda
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Wed 15 Apr 2009 19:57
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - ifithelps
....as there aren't the words 'Local' written on the sign for the bus lane.....

The bus lanes into Durham City, which were introduced at the same time as the park and ride scheme, do have the word 'local' written on the bus lane signs.

I imagine the local authority wanted to prevent their use by the long distance coaches which bring in the daytrippers.

Don't want to make visitors feel too welcome, do we?



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Wed 15 Apr 2009 20:11
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - Fullchat
So would I be right in assuming that last year when I drove a hired minibus with 17 schoolchildren (including my own) up to the Lakes for a few days then the school should have obtained a Section 19 Permit?
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Fri 17 Apr 2009 13:20
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - AmandaH
Yes, if the school was a non-profit making school and there was some form of 'hire or reward' then the vehicle should have been operated under the Permit regime.

'Hire or reward' is any payment or kind paid by or on behalf of the passenger which gives them the right to be carried on the vehicle. Examples are a hotel where you stay the night and then they take you to the airport with your luggage the following day. Even a packet of cigarettes given to a mate at the end of the week for taking your child to school each day is a form of 'hire or reward' this example has ended up with the driver being prosecuted for operating an illegal bus service - this has the knock on effect of driving without the correct entitlement, driving with no insurance, etc...

Amanda
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Fri 17 Apr 2009 13:46
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - IanJohnson
see

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/What...9
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Mon 10 Jan 2011 13:11
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - bigbaz

Amanda, I apologise for jumping in but I'm desperate for some information regarding section !9.

Im a taxi driver and single 16 seater minibus operator, and our local Council has given contracts to a Community Transport Charity in their minibuses. Something I can't understand is how can they work without an Operators licence, using a Section 19, when they entered alongside us in tendering for contracts which they won. I Don't see how this is "non-profit making" ?

The buses are donated by a local Council which puts the Charity in a win-win situation as they don't have the outlay for the bus and the drivers are not PCv and therefore not required to adhere to Drivers Hours, Tachos etc as I am.

Thanks Baz

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Fri 17 Apr 2009 19:08
Transport Act 1985 Section 19 Vehicle - touchbase
Whole subject is a very grey area:
Section 19 permits; tachos; speed limiters; community transport buses; school minibuses; what they can and can't be used for; who can drive them.

Community transport Association has the best knowledgebase -

www.ctauk.org/
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