What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - linac eng
While out for a walk this morning I couldn't help noticing a scooby drive past and thought it sounded quite nice. This got me wondering why V8's and to a lesser extent V6's soounds so appealing.

There must be a scientific explanation somewhere why an offbeat V8 burble sounds pleasing. Something to do with odd and even harmonics perhaps...?
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - NitroBurner
Or perhaps it's a freak act of nature (esp in the case of V8s) to rub it in to us mere mortals who can't afford to run them...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - No Do$h
No, we can all afford a V8. It's the bits of car that go round it that cost the money.....
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - peterb
"No, we can all afford a V8. It's the bits of car that go round it that cost the money....."

It's not even that. It's the potential repair costs.....
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - hillman
Answering the original question: the human mind seeks harmony, and the inherently better balance of the boxer and V6, V8 engines is sweeter to the ear.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Nortones2
Isn't it uneven firing intervals that give the V8 its signature woffle? We need LJKS to pronounce. Straight sixes have a very smooth character - not unlike the Chilean Carmenere I've just tried. Hic. Thank you to the Co-op.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Mark (RLBS)
>>not unlike the Chilean Carmenere I've just tried

tried the 2003 yet ? Very nice and plentiful so a bit cheaper.

And if you're buying more than a single bottle, then Majestic Wines do a good selection of Chilean wines at Tesco-ish prices.

Don't drink it while you're driving though (Motoring link).
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Kuang
I'm assuming that the word 'harmony' in the above post refers to equality and consistency rather than harmony in the musical sense. In musical terms, I've often wondered whether or not the offset, almost syncopated rhythmic feel of V8 engines (and don't forget those gorgeous lazy Harleys!) is where the attraction comes from.

I find when I'm writing music that rhythms with beats that play off each other cause a sense of tension and excitement as the listener tries to resolve the timing mentally, whereas a very straight predictable feel can often sink into the background and provide a better foundation for a catchy melody. Think of the way 'Money' by Pink Floyd, 'Golden Brown' by the Stranglers, and more recently 'Hey Ya' by Outkast keep you on edge because of the use of unusual or variable time signatures. There are a great many aspects to the mental processing of sound that are still a complete mystery to us, so the answer is probably buried in there somewhere :)

Interestingly enough, have you noticed how people often ascribe animal descriptions to V8s and more human ones to V6/12s? V8s growl and snarl, V6s scream. This is possibly down to the frequencies those engines tend to spin up to, with your typical V6 being more rev happy than a typical V8, but it's still food for thought - personification of sound sources is a fascinating field, especially for anyone who likes Hendrix... ;)
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - NitroBurner
If I was The Minister for Transport, I'd give everyone fuel vouchers enabling them to run a V8!

Bet you'd see a lot more smiling faces on the roads...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Sooty Tailpipes
"Answering the original question: the human mind seeks harmony, and the inherently better balance of the boxer and V6, V8 engines is sweeter to the ear."
Hmmm, but even a decades old wreck of a pushrod V8 can be resurrected from the dead and as soon as it coughs into smokey life, it sounds gorgeous! No Inline 4 engine can do that even when new.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - billy25
one of the nicest exhaust notes i've heard was from the old straight 6 triumph 2000 mk1, very distinctive in it's day, however my all-time favorite engine noise was the "haunting" idle of the 60's diesel buses, wish i could reproduce it in my petrol engine now!!.

billy.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - NARU
... and I always preferred the stag v8 to the rover v8
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - PST
The Subaru Impreza has a firing order of 1-3-2-4 so the pair of cylinders on one side fires then the other side. Plus the exhaust pipework from each side is of unequal lengths (on a WRX) which enahnces the 'lumpy' sound.

Mind you from what I gather there is a huge market in modifying the exhausts for these cars so presumably some are much louder than others.

Apologies for off-topic but I get mine on Monday (at long last) so I've been reading up....baseball cap and Flat Eric mascot at the ready!

V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - THe Growler
As a past and present owner of numerous V-8's and Harleys, I can only say the motor-boat burble of the former and the grandfather clock idle of the latter are balm to the bewildered soul and salve to the seething breast.

It has of course to do with the firing order and the relatively low revs at which these engines achieve their massive torque.

Personally I love the way you can floor a lazy V-8 with an auto box and just watch it consider the situation, gather its metaphorical skirts and storm effortlessly forward without much effort on your part, while lesser mortals are still shoving cogs around in their buzzboxes. Thank you Henry.

I also love blipping the throttle at the lights and feeling the whole car rock: even better with the old Mustang I just bought, the air cleaner protrudes through the hood, so the whole thing is disembodied and resembles something out of NASCAR.

My personal favorite explanation is that offered years ago by my then 9 year old daughter when I bought my original Mustang V-8 in Florida. "Daddy, I'm glad you bought this car". "Why's that, sweetheart?" "Well, it sounds like a PROPER car".

.....and hands up who knows that Harleys fire on both strokes of the piston? The Japanese have been close to motorcycling hara-kiri for years trying to emulate that sound with their Yamazuki rip-offs, without a shred of success. My local HD tech can get one to fire about every 2 seconds or so it seems but says it's no good for the oil flow.

Harleys are not that fast away from the lights compared with your average Hayabusa, but you tell me which one gets the attention....

...er, must go, my cocoa's ready.



V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Garethj
As mentioned, the reason is because of the firing order and the exhaust layout. By changing the exhaust manifold you can affect the way one cylinder's gases help to evacuate another and totally change the sound.

I agree about letting everyone have a V8, I've owned several and it's pure music! There is an alternative though... about 10 years ago I went to see a development from Lotus, they were working on an active noise system to reduce the noise levels inside the car. It worked by having microphones inside the car (I think it was a VW Golf) and a processor would then feed the anti-phase of this noise through the car's 4 radio speakers. They gave demonstrations, sitting in the car and it sounded normal, then pressing the switch and it being almost completely silent. The interesting by-product was that they could also feed any other noise through the speakers. Another switch was pressed and this Golf turned into a throbbing V8 Mustang! Because it sampled the engine's noise the V8 noise was in perfect phase and the 4 cylinder noise was gone. All us petrolheads were grinning wildly at this until the Lotus guy pressed another switch and it turned into a Porsche 911 - fantastic!

Revving the engine in the Golf produced a 911 / V8 Mustang revving inside the car and the Lotus engineer told us that at the factory they obviously had use of all the development Lotus cars to tootle around in but the most popular car on the fleet was a Citroen AX (I think) that had this active noise V8 feature.

After 10 years I'd expect to see this on cars now, I want one!

Gareth
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Kuang
I'm more or less certain that I remember seeing this on Top Gear quite a few years back, but fitted to a production car (or at least, a car that was about to go into production). I think it might have been a Honda, possibly a Prelude. They showed the ordinary dull engine note being transformed realtime into a riproaring V6, and even mapped exhaust flashes into the sound :)

V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - 3500S
As a V8 owner in a fairly low state of tune at a mere 155Bhp considering TVR got 400Bhp from the same engine I have no explanation as to why they sound so good. I'm not even sure on the firing sequence of the cylinders but I think that has something to do with it. I know owners that make perhaps the biggest difference to the sound going for the open air induction. That really gives us a much deeper breathing note and the sound of the air intake as it's revved sounds simply brilliant.

I get asked why I never want to replace the Radiomobile radio in mine with something more modern. Simple, I have my very own soundtrack attached to my right foot. A V8 on song raises a lot of smiles, I love blasting up an A-road in 3rd getting the full range out of the engine.

Modern V8s do still sound wonderful after hearing the latest Mustang V8 with tweaks bolted into a ZT260 but they do lack that deep bellow of older V8s. Speaking of pushrod V8s my neighbour has a 1950s Ford F-100 truck and that sounds superb, it's a very lazy V8 but it has a sound that really beats all other V8s I've heard. German V8's by comparison just sound really clinical as they go for damping and removing as much vibration as possible which I think detracts from the essence of a good V8.

As for the Triumph V8, best of luck with it, even with all the modifications to make this engine halfway reliable it sounds anaemic compared to the Rover variant. Although this does cause many almost vehement arguments with Stag owners many of them still replace the Triumph V8 with the Rover one.

And if the Government wants to give me vouchers for running a V8, I'll have the Rover V8 3.9 Efi with Stage II head please.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - BazzaBear {P}
Can't suggest a reason why they sound so good, but have to agree that they do.
I had an Aston V8 Vantage for a weekend last year, and the sound it made nearly brought tears to my eyes. I think it was 25% intake noise, 25% exhaust, 25% engine itself and 25% the gurgling of petrol disappearing from the tank :D
Did 250 miles in it, and cost myself over £60 in petrol, but it was SO worth it :D
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - helicopter
Cocoa and Viagra don't normally mix Growler???

Ah but yes I understand - The cocoa to send you to sleep and the Viagra to stop you rolling out of bed.......
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - J Bonington Jagworth
"Thank you Henry"

He came to them fairly late though, did't he? I seem to remember that he said (in Model-T days)he had no use for an engine that had more cylinders than a cow had teats...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - THe Growler
Henry Ford's introduction of the Ford V-8 has an interesting history. When the original L-head side-valve came out in 1932 in the middle of the Depression, it was built down to an affordable price. Unlike other V-8's available at the time it boasted a single block casting, enabling a very robust engine with lower production costs, something considered impossible at the time. Other V-8's relied on engine castings bolted together; more expensive and less reliable.

Ole Henry was teed off that Chevrolet were selling more cars than he was with their 6-cyl engines, and Ford had had no luck with their own experiments in this area -- long crankshafts prone to breaking etc. This I think was behind his disparaging remarks on 6-es, although of course Ford later went on to build them.

Those old flatheads are still remarkable engines. You can still get all the parts (original and performance) for them and they are eminently tuneable and very robust. To this day there are plenty of hot rods boasting a souped up 1950's L-head under the hood. Add a supercharger and you've got some serious muscle with great reliability.

I agree that modern V-8's sound insipid: my 2001 F-150 had no more than a subdued waffle, whereas my first V-8, a splendid ex-Belgian Embassy black 1954 Mercury Monterey (the first year Ford offered an OHV V-8) had the most wonderful exhaust rumble.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Kevin

NitroBurner gets my vote for next Chancellor and Kuang gets Minister of Sound!

Not all V8s sound the same though. Stand behind an XJ and you can hardly hear it, same with a BMW, Merc or Lexus V8. Stand behind my Camaro (a '96 US-spec) and you not only hear it, you can feel it in your chest. Blip the throttle and it gets better.

A typical american V8 sounds gorgeous up to about 5K rpm. A Ferrari V8 sounds pretty rough until it gets above 5K rpm, then Wow!

Did anyone hear the Corvettes at Le Mans last year?

Growler's mention of HD also reminds me of my dad's passion when he was younger. He had a number of bikes including an Ariel Sq 4 and a Vincent Black Shadow. He used to swear that one of them (can't remember which), fired once every lampost.

Kevin...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Maz
Did anyone hear the Corvettes at Le Mans last year?



Oh God, yes. Tears are flowing as I type.

Talking of type, a different type of car I know, but the Bentleys just made a 'whoosh' didn't they? The quietest car there was also the fastest.

This is the future of European cars. Not quiet from sound deadening, but from a ruthless efficiency engineered by an 80% tax hike on fuel.

Why are American V8's the best sounding engines?
Why are rich people eccentric?

It's because they can afford to be.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - smokie
Ahhh...Le Mans...take a look at the rumoured support race details...distilled from www.groupc-gtpracing.com/news.htm - these will certainly sound nice!!

"Lovers of the fantastic 'Group C' period will be thrilled to hear that Group C/GTP Racing, the club running these cars in Europe, has teamed up with Motor Racing Legends to run a race on the Saturday morning of the main race at Le Mans in June 2004.

The race is for 40 cars (+ 4 reserves) with one driver of a maximum of 40 minutes duration, (no refuelling) allowing for wheels/tyres to be changed in the event of a late weather change.

There will an exciting mix of period cars from the Group C and GTP / IMSA family and is likely to include Aston Martin AMR1, Argo, Bardon, Ecosse, EMKA, Jaguar, Lancia, Nissan, Porsche, Spice, Tiga.


Le Mans devotees might be interested to visit www.clubarnage.com/yabbse/index.php
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - J Bonington Jagworth
Don't forget 5's, chaps. Rememember the original Quattro...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Altea Ego
And let us lay flowers and offerings at the feet of the god at TVR who performs miracles and turns rainwater down pipes into deep glorious baritone organ pipes.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - 3500S
TVR really for me gave the V8 a tremendous renaissance. Not only did they pick one of the best V8's ever made, they kept to the formula, large induction and free exhaust breathing. The rest comes from the rightness of the engine which was almost infinitely tuneable adapted to EFi very well and got 400+ stallions from it. I still can't believe Buick threw such a great engine it away only for Martin-Hurst to literally trip over it when he was trying to flog marine engines.

I do agree with Growler, the Americans do make the best V8's.

Next purchase for me is stainless steel exhaust manifolds and a stainless steel exhaust, my friend bought some for his Griff and the note from them is utter heaven.

All contributions gratefully received. :)
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - PST
So the consensus seems to be V8s have the best sound. Looking at the alternatives I always thought the 5 cylinder 20V volvo engine sounded reasonable (under acceleration) and I heard a V12 Aston Martin DB7 recently trundling along at 10mph which sounded fantastic. The best description of that I suppose was that you could hear the potential of the engine.

Engines I haven't heard are V4s (Saab and Corsair?) and V10s - both petrol (eg Dodge) and diesel (VW).....anybody heard those engines?
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - NitroBurner
Let's hear it for straight 8s too...

Was in the paddock at the Goodwood Festival of Speed a few years ago when a pre war Alfa in line 8 fired up. Wicked...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - hillman
I was reading an article on ?muscle? cars of the 60s and 70s, and was impressed enough to make a few notes.
1967 Chev Sting Ray, V8 5360cc ? 360 BHP at 6000rpm, 0-60mph 6.2 secs.
1968 Plymouth GTX, V8 6974cc ? 425 BHP at 5000rpm, 0-60 mph 6.3 secs.

Can any of our USA members tell me what was the speed limit at that time? Did the accident rate go up? Maybe it is related that the Stingray of 1978 had a V8 of 5735cc but tuned down to 185 BHP.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - THe Growler
1973 oil crisis and introduction of the 55 mph speed limit.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Kuang
IIRC there was a 427Ci-ish lump available in the 79 Stingray for those with a deathwish! Not sure if my maths serves me correctly, but I think that's in the region of seven and a half litres.

Wasn't that also about the time where Ford realised that a larger torquier engine could be *more* efficient than a smaller one, and promptly reinstated the bigger lumps in the Mustang range that had been lost at the start of the oil crisis?
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - THe Growler
The Mk 3 Mustangs (1979 till the mid-80's) had a variety of engines. The V-8 was a 302 cu in (5.0 ltr) 4-V which still only punched out (IIRC) about 140hp compared with the 260 odd of the 1969-1973 351 cu in. Worst was the feeble 3.3 ltr 6 cyl 2-V with a puny 85 hp. During the late 70's thru the 80's I was in the Gulf, at which time Fords (like Coca-Cola) were banned because they were on the Israeli Boycott list. Around '85 that was rescinded and those boxy Mustang hatchbacks sold like hot cakes among the local lads, and it was nice to hear that exhaust note again from something other than a Camaro.

A propos of nothing the T-Bar Mustangs and 'Vettes originated during the ban in the US on convertible production (now you know).
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Kuang
Ah, cheers for that - that's my sort of history lesson :)
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Nortones2
PST: since you mention Saabs, I recall a Buxton garage that sold them who had an older 3-cylinder 2-stroke Saab that was pretty pokey and made a nice sound, except on the overrun! I've driven the V4 saab used, but it was in a Ford transit. Nothing remarkable re sound tho'.

Best engine sound ever: 250 Honda 6 cylinder. I remember hairs standing up on back of neck when hearing engine being warmed up: whoop, whoop, whoop.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - J Bonington Jagworth
"3-cylinder 2-stroke"

Don't laugh, but I had a Wartburg with one of these, and it made a lovely sound. Overrun wasn't a problem, as it had a free-wheel (to prevent the engine from being underlubricated). When I bought it, I mentioned this feature to the former Mrs B-J and she looked a bit puzzled before enquiring: "which one's that then?"...
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - THe Growler
If memory serves (I find myself saying that increasingly these days...) those 2 stroke Saabs practically dominated the rally scene in the hands of the Carlssons. My one driving experience left me with an impression of sewing machine smoothness, and, yes, a great sound on the over-run. It's a shame that engines these days are so homogenised and anodyne: those idiosyncratic formats seem gone for ever.

Harleys excepted of course; I have owned them for years but I still get a physical reaction when I fire mine up and feel butterflies when I chuck my leg over it. Any engineer worth his salt will tell you a 45° V-twin which fires on the exhaust as well as the compression stroke is a joke. But the only reason for that is so it fits in the frame (a decision taken back in around 1923....). But last year HD in Japan outsold all locally produced cruisers and my HD shares have managed a 16% growth during the last 3 years. Yet Growlette's little 750cc Virago == also a V-twin -- makes a noise which wouldn't excite a convention of Trappist monks.

So I would say add Harley (or S&S or RevTech custom HD replacement engines) V-twins to the "why sound nice....?" question.
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Nortones2
Agreed Growler, nice sound from Harleys. I've always fancied a go on a v-twin. One thump every lampost was the expression I think!
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - THe Growler
Best with a set of Vance & Hines Straightshots open pipes. You can get 12" sheets of flame at the lights if you get bored waiting for them to change and and it's always good fun disrupting the bible classes on a Sunday a.m. just down the street from our place.....
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - Nortones2
First HD I saw was on the outskirts of Bournemouth. Why? I suspect he was out for a days fun, terrifying the denizens. I went down from Brum (Morris Minor, in '68) for a break. Saw Bournemouth and left. I thought old age was catching. Damn. I've just realised.......
V8s, boxers, V6s why sound nice? - frostbite
Not even sure what's under the bonnet but I was mightily impressed by the sound of the Skyline that exited the roundabout behind me yesterday and rapidly disappeared, despite my efforts to stay within earshot.

First one I've seen OTR.