Has anyone driven the new Accord 2.2 iCTDi? I test drove it today - it drove like a petrol engine but pulls faster in low revs. Very smooth and very impressive. However, price (20k) is in the small exec bracket and depreciation is likely to be faster than BMW/Audi. Plan to test drive the A4 1.9TDi soon as well as the BMW 320dES.
What do others think of these cars?
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You may want to check the Volvo S60 D5. I think the engine is better than the Audi and BMW; which I've also driven. Can't comment on the Honda. I've driven 30K in 9 months and it's going very well.
I bought mine pre-registered and saved 5K on the list price from a Volvo Dealer! That nearly pays for the first years depriciation. Good deals are still to be had.
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I have driven the BMW and the Honda, no idea about the Audi.
The Honda does drive like a petrol car, and I enjoyed the drive, but, it is almost as expensive as the BMW and though it feels good with reasonably good quality trim and fittings, it is not in the BMW league.
The Honda is quite large, so probably reasonable value for money if you need something that large. For me the 3 series is plenty big enough and would be my choice. I can't say there was much difference in the driveability, though perhaps the BMW was slighly more rumbley at low speeds.
Interestingly, comparing the 318 and the 320d, the diesel is considerably quieter at motorway speeds when the 318 is revving quite high. You can hardly hear the BMW diesel engine.
I wonder how reliable Honda's first diesel will be.
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I considered all of these, and a few more, and I ordered the Accord Tourer diesel back in November.
Virtually all of the reviews recommended the Honda, and when I had a test drive, a few weeks ago, I was very impressed with it it; didn't sound, or seem, like a diesel behind the wheel.
I've gone for the Executive, and considering the spec. I'd say it was much better value than all of the rest. I did a comparison with the Vectra estate, and the Honda is about the same price when you add up the cost of the extras, viz. powered tailgate, electric sunroof, leather seating, solar protect glass.
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I've driven the new Honda diesel and compared with my Golf 1.9 GT Tdi PD 130 it's fabulous. The VW/Audi PD engines perform well, particularly when you consider the mpg you can achieve. However, they are very coarse and vary considerably from car to car.Also the PD 130 engine is susceptible to complete failure which can be very expensive out of warranty! I am getting rid of my Golf at 2 1/2 years old in favour of a Honda as I do not want to risk such problems out of warranty
The Honda's power delivery is very smooth without the 'shove in the back' acceleration you get in the Golf which is initially impressive, but soon wears thin when you have to come to terms with the very narrow power band you have to work with.
I have not driven the BMW, but as they are now more common than the Mondeo I wouldn't be seen dead in one.
Overall, the Honda is a much more individual choice and I consider it good value for money when you consider the quality of the package.In my experience Audi's are grossly over-priced, particularly when you specify a few extras - an armrest is over
£100!
Regarding the reliability of the new engine,in view of Honda's achievements in engine design and manufacture,which are second to none, I am sure you need not worry about this.
Good luck - buy the Honda!
HectorG
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I've now driven the multitronic A4 1.9TDi. The Accord was better built, better plastics, better looking inside, better dials, better seats and better stereo. Everyone says Audi have the best plastics but I preferred the Accord. It was considerably better spec'd with leather seats, heated seats etc.
Accord also had better, quieter, smoother engine and was more comfortable on the road -I could feel more of the bumps in the Audi.
Head to head the Accord was the better car. However, the multitronic transmission in the Audi was very impressive - seamless smooth gear changes - something I have never experienced in any other car. The Audi also will have better residuals - probably £13000 (from £22000) after 3 years cf £8500 (from 20000) for the Honda.
Conclusion: if you want a manual go for the Accord (automatic not available yet). For those who prefer automatics the Audi is hard to beat.
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Hull - you can easily get an A4 for less than £20k with the multitronic box. I did using one of the brokers on HJ's site (ending up 12% off list). Your residual may be a bit less given this level of discounting if common but the financial side of the equation is in the Audi's favour.
Have driven the BM but not the Honda - I didn't think that the equivalent BM was worth 10% more than the Audi. Both nice however. I find the Audi is near silent on motorways, etc. and is a lovely cruiser. Corners with the sport pack are also interesting too. If the Honda is even quieter then it must be a great car so good luck.
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>>(20k) is in the small exec bracket and depreciation is likely to be faster than BMW/Audi.
depreciation - remember that the bmw appears to have lower depreciation because people forget to add in the expensive extras fitted to the original barebones bmw.
the honda price may include many items as standard for which bmw charge the earth.
1.9TDi soon as well as the BMW 320dES.
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does the 320d es not come with a 5 year inclusive servicing package as well as many other free sports pack goodies ???
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Indeed the BMW comes with a five year/60k free servicing package which gives it a considerable edge in running costs over 60k miles.
www.motoring.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?x...l
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Good offer by BMW. The Audi only needs servicing every 30,000 miles or so according to their sales rep.
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30,000 miles without even an oil change?. I am guessing that salesman is hoping for some quick repeat business, when the engine in your current car goes pop.
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Bit off topic but yes 30,000 miles without an oil change (well my A2 will have done about 27,000 before its first service). I have no intention of keeping the car for years and years so as long as its serviced within the recoginised schedule I'm happy. If I were keeping the car for an extended period I'd probably change to the 10,000 mile interval.
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Well appologies to that salesman for questioning his integrity, but I have to add that I now know that a used Audi serviced to manufacturer's recommendations is not a desireable car at all.
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It must be VAG as a whole, my [petrol] polo is not due it's first service until 20k miles or 2 years, whichever is the sooner.
CF
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Well appologies to that salesman for questioning his integrity, but I have to add that I now know that a used Audi serviced to manufacturer's recommendations is not a desireable car at all.
Me too!
30,000 miles between oil changes is ridiculous,even on a petrol let alone a diesel (even if it is a common rail). 10,000 max for petrol and common rail diesel,6000 max for IDI diesel.
In the not too distant future we are going to have alot of second hand medium milage cars with completely knackered engines.
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" In the not too distant future we are going to have alot of second hand medium milage cars with completely knackered engines."
What evidence is there? Americans haven't yet been weaned off 3000 mile intervals, so 10,000 mile changes are well on the road to disaster according to their folk-culture.
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I have seen enough evidence with my own eyes of stripped down engines that have had oil changes missed, and engines that have had regular oil changes. (not the latest audis of which we speak i admit!)
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Americans haven't yet been weaned off 3000 mile intervals....
Actually IIRC wasn't it the Americans that gave us the "Northstar" engine (as fitted to the Cadillac STS or whatever) that had a 100K service interval?
Chad.R
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Why do Audi have such long service intervals if there are the risks mentioned above? Surely the manufacturers are aware of these risks?
Are people unnecessarily changing their engine oil too frequently? Is it a way for manufacturers and dealers to pile up the profits? I have spent over £2900 on just servicing my Accord over the last 4 years (12 x 9000 miles)? The warranty ties you in for the first 3 years. It seems to be a good money spinner.
I know HJ\'s opinion on oil changes - but is it evidence-based?
What about using agents like ZX1?
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Yes, but I think it somehow omitted to mention oil changes, which were still required, weren't they?
From www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us100232.htm 'The newer Northstar V8s use an "oil life monitor" light rather than a specific mileage interval or service schedule to indicate when oil changes are needed. The PCM tracks engine rpm, operating temperature, load, running time and ambient temperature to calculate oil life. Up until 1999, the maximum oil change interval under ideal conditions was 7,500 miles. In 2000, GM bumped the upper limit to 10,000 miles. In 2002, they did away with the upper limit altogether stretching the oil change interval to 12,000 miles or more, depending on operating conditions. However, GM does say the oil should be changed at least once a year regardless of mileage.
We think pushing the oil change interval too far is asking for trouble. Changing the oil every 3,000 miles may be a conservative approach to engine maintenance, but considering the fact that most engines operate under less than ideal conditions, 3,000 miles is a realistic figure - especially during cold weather and for short trip, stop-and-go city driving. Oil is a lot cheaper than an engine - especially a Cadillac Northstar V8 engine."
So the old ways continue despite the efforys of the car maker!
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>>What evidence is there? Americans haven't yet been weaned off 3000 mile intervals
But its so much easier there. I used to roll in to an oil change place in San Mateo and after oil & filter change be back on the road within 15 minutes and there is no need to make an appointment.
Perhaps doing it that quickly isn't quite as thorough as it could be, but I doubt that matters when you're getting it done so frequently.
Its also a great deal cheaper than it is here.
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Made my choice - the Audi A4's multitronic transmission wins the day. Just ordered it from drivethedeal for nearly £3800 off the list price!
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