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We often see UK reliability surveys which some people claim are inherently flawed for a variety of reasons. Does anyone know if any global comparisons are made/collated? It strikes me that in these days of fewer car/component maufacturers and 'world' models it shouldn't be too hard to gather basic reliability information from all major markets to see whether they broadly agree or conflict with eachother. Doing so might show, for example, that the quality of local servicing is a primary factor in overall reliability. On the other hand it might confirm the popular belief here that some, once highly respected marques, are losing the plot worldwide.
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Nice idea, but wouldn't you run the danger of not comparing like for like? Japanese versions of cars sold in the UK are not prepared in the same way vis a vis underbody protection, for example. Further, for a silly and extreme example, a car that is reliable in Kent may not be in the rainforest? Fuel standards vary too - try buying "98 Ron" in the States.
Certainly for the marque of car I drive, the "same" car in the States actually has a different engine, albeit of the same size; hard to know that unless you look in detail at the performance figures and ask questions of the manufacturer.
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That's true and certainly any comparisons made would have be justifiable and take into account such factors. For the reasons you mention they'd only be possible for cars which were pretty much the same wherever sold. Environmental/climatic factors could also be borne in mind (after all the US has a very varied climate) and wouldn't necessarily prevent useful conclusions being drawn for example on the reliability of major, common, components. Also, drawing such data from all major markets would reduce the impact of any shortcomings in individual surveys. Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of this would generate comprehensive, clear cut and conclusive data in every case but it would assist us all in making our own decisions on what to buy. It would also better show up the sort of manufacturing problems which some marques would prefer to deny the existence of.
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Yes, ok, I agree with looking at at the component level, fair point. I just wonder how much in common even the supposedly same components have. Wasn't there a time when you looked at a Ford and said "if it's built in Spain it may be different to the ones built in Germany", or something?
Mind you, I know nothing about the details of car manufacture, so I might be talking slippers. And I agree it would be at least interesting if a report came out saying "The British love the Zingbang90, but in Brazil they won't touch 'em".
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The country of origin might prove to be another major factor in overall reliability and this would be shown up by a global survey far better than at present. So, all other things being equal, if the 'Zingbang90' made in Spain proved far less reliable than the same model made with the same components in the UK, say (or vice versa), we could draw the conclusion that manufacturing methods were the root cause and source accordingly. At present, any such 'conclusions' can only be based on anectdotal evidence.
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But we all know that the Japanese brands will come top,with probably Toyota/Lexus top of the tree.Anyone that truly bases their purchase on reliability anywhere in the world already knows this.
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Most major manufacturers now design and manufacture for a global market. The location of the assembly plant is not actually that critical - whether a Japanese car is assembled in Hiroshima or Barcelona it is likely that most of the parts will be identical and the factory line equipment will be the same.
Differences are largely confined to trim, optional equipment and rustproofing. Suspension spring/damping rates can also be a bit different.
Many European made 'Japanese' cars are actually exported worldwide - e.g. the Sunderland-built Primera is exported to the US and SA (and other countries) as the Infiniti G20.
As T Lucas says though, the result is already known. In the UK and AUS the top spot is always Lexus/Toyota, Subaru, Honda, Nissan/Infiniti. The order changes a bit from year to year
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You're right of course Aprilia (I do seem to agree with you rather a lot these days) but the point I was making (perhaps not very clearly) was that it would be interesting to be able to easily compare national surveys from across the world. Yes I suppose we all know (or think we know) that the Japs are best but what about the rest ? Are Renaults as good/bad in the UK as the same models elsewhere? For example, it's easy to form what seems like a sound but negative opinion of, say, Vauxhall Omegas from forums like this but how accurate is that opinon in fact? What's it based on and what was the sample taken?
With modern computer technology, collating this sort of reliability data worldwide ought to be easy and I'm just wondering why nobody seems to have bothered and most of us have to base our buying decisions either on relatively small national surveys or what's little more than anectdotal evidence.
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Aprilia,
"Most major manufacturers now design and manufacture for a global market. The location of the assembly plant is not actually that critical - whether a Japanese car is assembled in Hiroshima or Barcelona it is likely that most of the parts will be identical and the factory line equipment will be the same."
Whilst the aim of manufacturers is to achieve a common global standard I am not certain they have achieved this yet. There has been plenty of evidence that the country of assembly has some considerable bearing on the reliability of cars.
For instance early models of the French assembled Yaris gave problems and the South African assembled RHD C Class Merc was to some extent responsible for the declining reputation for reliability of Mercedes in this country.
The major units - engine gearbox etc - are unlikely to prove less reliable. However it is little consolation if there are niggling faults that can be attributed to poor assembly or locally sourced components.
C
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Aprilia, "Most major manufacturers now design and manufacture for a global market. The location of the assembly plant is not actually that critical - whether a Japanese car is assembled in Hiroshima or Barcelona it is likely that most of the parts will be identical and the factory line equipment will be the same." Whilst the aim of manufacturers is to achieve a common global standard I am not certain they have achieved this yet. There has been plenty of evidence that the country of assembly has some considerable bearing on the reliability of cars. For instance early models of the French assembled Yaris gave problems and the South African assembled RHD C Class Merc was to some extent responsible for the declining reputation for reliability of Mercedes in this country. The major units - engine gearbox etc - are unlikely to prove less reliable. However it is little consolation if there are niggling faults that can be attributed to poor assembly or locally sourced components. C
Yes, I agree with that. I guess I was really thinking about mechanical/electrical reliability, breakdown etc. - finish, in particular, can be sensitive to the local.
On a more general note, I work in Germany quite a bit and often pick up one of the ADAC (German AA equivalent) used car guides. They list all cars, together with a very detailed statistical analysis of breakdown faults on a year-by-year basis.
They is also a similar guide put out by the German vehicle testing organisation (kind of MoT equivalent) which lists all items on which each vehicles fail the test.
They also contain very specific details of known defects in cars together with the manufacturing dates for which they apply (which would appear to be supplied by the manufacturers?) - we don't get those over here, apart from recall info., that is.
These guides only cost a few ££ each and are highly respected in Germany. I have noticed that their results are not too far off the Which? survey results; basically Japanese are v. reliable, French and Italian to be avoided, German somewhere in between.
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Aprilia,
I have also lived in Germany for quite a while. ADAC are really good and unbiased. They really hammered Mercedes some years ago when their standards dropped.
I would agree that the concensus is Japan at the top with French/Italian still at the bottom.
I would add that Korean cars in America are getting very good reports for reliability - boring but reliable.
C
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Aprilia, I have also lived in Germany for quite a while. ADAC are really good and unbiased. They really hammered Mercedes some years ago when their standards dropped. I would agree that the concensus is Japan at the top with French/Italian still at the bottom. I would add that Korean cars in America are getting very good reports for reliability - boring but reliable. C
Yes, Koreans seen to be 'going up'. I think Hyundai and Kia (which are now basically the some company) got off to a rather shaky start a few years ago, but I gather are now very well though of in the US.
The Kia Optima (AKA Magentis in UK) seems to sell in large numbers and gets good reviews over the other side of the pond. I have seen new ones in the UK at around the £10k - has to be a good buy for someone who wants a cheap and reliable largish car.
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I remember reading some list detailing specific factories and the reliability of the cars they produce, and if memory serves me right a Toyota plant in Japan came first.
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I don't know if the European manufacturers have woken up yet to the threat that is coming hard and fast from the Korean companies,they are making better,more reliable and keenly priced cars year on year and have product to fill most segments.
It has been said that they are in the position now that Toyota and Datsun were circa 1970 in Europe,they are way past that position and are increasing their networks and selling more cars with more repeat customers all the time.
I have a friend that has a Kia franchise,had it for a few years and eart a living from it,the last 2 years have started to make him seriously wealthy,selling what he calls '4 wheeled washing machines'that don't go wrong.
How many Citroen,Peugeot Alfa and Fiat dealer principle can say that?
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Two new Kia models are coming out this year in the most popular segments, the newer ones seem to be styled quite nicely. I think Kia will continue as the fastest growing car company in the UK for a while.
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