Thanks Bagpuss, v interesting.
Naturally I've checked out HJ's car-by-car. He suggests 964s are OK and 993s are pretty OK, but there's a fair bit negative about Boxsters and 996s - mainly engine problems including mixing water with oil (not surprisingly big bad news).
Interesting what you say about the 964 - unreliability and no room. It might be well affordable but I want to see as little of the inside of workshops as possible.
It seems to be the case that the later the model the less it costs to service. Mind you, £7k less on the purchase price pays for a fair bit of servicing.
The 993s look absolutely gorgeous and I've read elsewhere about strong reliability, but the youngest is about 6 years old now. Does it make sense to go for a newer motor?
Could be Boxster looking favourite then. Shame about the lack of the Carrera's extra seats.
I'm looking to buy (much) later in the year but am researching now. Do tell us all what you finally get and your imppressions.
Cheers, MM
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Early 996/Boxster models did blow a few engines but it wasn't *that* common and, in theory, those which are liable to go should have been replaced by now. There is also a generic problem with the Rear Main Seal leaking on the engine which can be a relatively expensive fix.
Remember that maintenance and repairs on all Porsche models at main dealers could never be called cheap but regular servicing is cheaper on the 996/Boxster models (still reckon on £400 for a minor and upto £800 for a major though). The 48k service is a big one so knock some money off any 47k models you see for sale.
993 prices are still quite high (a late 993 is frequently worth more than an early 996) as so few were actually made so they are a rare car.
If you want to use it every day I'd be inclined to let your head rule your heart and go for either a nicely specced 996 C2 with a good history or, for the safest option on running costs look for a late Boxster 2.7 or Boxster S from a main dealer or specialist with warranty and a reasonably low mileage which has been used as a cherished 2nd car (most have) in a nice colour and spec. Private buying is an option as any OPC (Official Porsche Centre) will do an inspection on it for you. It'll give a lot of fun, won't break the bank and will have a queue come resale time.
Also note - especially with Boxsters - prices go up at the end of March and drop again in October. The difference in price and selection between June and Janaury can be quite significant.
n.b. One other note on the 996 & Boxster: under the bonnet there will be a sticker with all the option codes on it which any dealer can decode for you. If this is missing, ask why. Also look for the "C16" code which means its a full UK spec car.
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I went through a similar decision-making process a couple of years ago and bought a 993 Carrera 2S, tha last of the aircooled models. Superb build quality, sports car driving experience and servicing isn't that expensive (well, relatively-speaking!). If you do less than 12,000 miles in 2 years, you can get away with an "annual" service which is a lot cheaper (This is detailed in the car's service book). There are many specialists who offer top quality servicing - look in the back of 911 and Porsche World magazine to get an idea of servicing costs displayed in advertisements for most models.
The 996 range, I feel, took a bit of a drop in overall quality (they depreciate faster than any previous 911) and the driving experience, while still slightly evocative of 911s of old, is a bit more sanitised - a bit more appealing to a wider audience. I would suggest you drive a 964, 993 and 996 and see what you think. Take your time with the 993 and earlier models, because they're not like a run-of-the-mill car, they really do reward the better driver - they take practice, but after a while the whole thing falls into place and the car will fell like part of you - truly, I hope I'm not sounding too over the top here! (For example, I stalled mine many times and couldn't change gear smoothly for at least a month after first aquaintance.) (Bear in mind that the 993 introduced multi-link rear suspensiion to the range and will be easier (safer?) to drive quickly than earlier models with torsion bar rear suspension.) The four wheel drive versions will understeer a little more, the two wheel drive is lighter and offers a more "pure" drive. Again, drive both types to compare if you can.
This well thought of independent service centre displays servicing costs: www.jzmachtech.com but there are quite a few others to choose from. See www.911-classified.com/members/independ.html Also, OPCs are discounting service rates for 993s (and older.)
I would suggest that you get any car you like the look of checked by a specialist in Porsche 911s - see the ads in 911 and Porsche World magazine.
Also, take a look at the free detailed buyer's guide diaplayed by this independent service centre: www.hartech.u-net.com/guide.htm
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Brilliant. Thanks guys; very useful indeed. I have to confess that 911 & Porsche World is compulsory reading currently. Nice buyer's guide to the 993 in the Jan issue BTW.
A Carrera 2 would be the ideal - who needs all that 4WD hardware to drag around? I'll have to see how the piggy bank is looking when the time comes...
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Oh, and JJ, I have to say I'm dead envious!
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I know it's got the engine at the wrong end, but a late 928 is currently the most car for the least money on the planet, IMHO...
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JBJ,
Spot on!
The 928 was a great car - without being a proper sports car.
I used to drive a 924(poor man's Porsche) a lot which did huge damage to Porsche's reputation although wasn't a bad car.
The most frightening was the early 911 Turbo. It invented turbo lag and kept accelerating regardless of position of accelerator- almost impossible to keep at a constant speed.
C
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993 & 964 are virtually identical inside - certainly no more room inside. The luggage compartment is slightly larger or should that be less small on a 993.
993 are cheaper to service than 964 as they have hydraulic tappets which dont need adjusting.
My preference would be for a low milage 964 in excellent condition for the same price as an average condition high milage 993.
Whichever way you go if things start going wrong you could be facing bills of £3500 and higher.
Maintenance if driven hard & frequently will be expensive ie brake pads all round every 12k rear tyres could be as low as 3k miles a pair fuel consumption on both could be as low as mid teens round town or as high as 30mpg at a steady 80 on the motor way.
I've just been through the same process & bought a 964 having previosly owned earlier 911s, I've done 6k miles in 3 months & it gets better all the time.
Andy
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I'm aware of the possiblity of big bills when things go wrong... But there seem to some independent Porsche specialists that have good reputations and that are far cheaper than the official dealers. And I reckon that if there are big bills they replace the cost of depreciation you get on a new car.
Anyone out there got any views on aircon on air-cooled engined cars? Was it an option on the 964? It was on the 993 and my impression is that the majority have it - but quite a few don't. But is the aircon likely to work? And if not, does it matter?
It could be the case that aircon is more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not convinced it'll affect residuals after all this time. (Different matter on Boxster and 996, though.)
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Aircon was an option on the 964.
The aircon on my 993 works fine, but is perhaps not quite as powerful as some systems.
A good idea is to get the aircon recharged every 2 or 3 years.
If you buy from a dealer, make sure this has just been done and if you buy privately, make sure it is one of the things checked in any inspection you arrange.
Aircon is worth having if you can get it. It WILL make a difference on a hot day, because the "living space" is not large and will otherwise heat up quite quickly.
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On the 911virgin.com site, they always add in a rider about every 911 for sale with air con, "assume it doesn't work".
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A Carrera 2 would be the ideal - who needs all that 4WD hardware to drag around?
Errr .. I did last Thursday. An important meeting had already been scheduled but my 5 series couldn't get off the driveway. Its a new house so we didn't know we needed to keep a supply of grit in the garage.
So, I phoned in and cried off. Told them they'd have to re-arrange it. They called back 2 hours later saying they'd tried everything but couldn't fit it in before the deadline and as I did actually have a 4WD car in the garage could I please please try?
Tried again with the 5 but still found myself going sideways - fun on a track maybe but not on the drive thanks! 911 C4S smoothly drove off the drive in one attempt though, and off I went.
The supercar you can use every day? Spot on....
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The main thing against 4wd, at least on the current models, is that you lose the (very useful) front boot.
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Patently
Serious question, and appreciating a possible initial reluctance not to expose the Porsche to the vagaries of other people's driving on snow or ice - not "patently" obvious to me how, if your meeting was so important and having discovered that the 5 series couldn't make it out of the drive in the first instance, you had to be reminded that you had "a 4WD in the garage"!?
Jack
PS Less seriously, and recalling Mad Maxy's other appparent obsession (namely "Overtaking Convoys"), at least he should have less bother overtaking once he swaps his current 115 horses for a Porsche ... He'll also be able to answer his own question "Are Porsche drivers like BM drivers?" -in Patently's case the answer is undeniably "Yes"! Incidentally, perhaps the key to "Overtaking Convoys" lies in the old adage that "Number Two makes the queue".
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Hey Union, I'm not 'obsessed' with overtaking convoys! (Well, not as much as future Porsche ownership.)
No, nothing like that. I'm just after total domination of the road I'm on...!!!
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Don't worry, CBC Breakdown was an early port of call, HJ! (see above)
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Er, as I was posting that, I realised I meant to ask: HJ, are you suggesting 'don't go there' or 'buy carefully (FSH, FPSH?, independent expert check, etc)'?
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