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Me in cynical mode again (yes, yet again I know) but are wing mirror repeater type indicators of any real benefit or is their apparently growing popularity amongst car makers a way to extract more money from customers ? Having had a car fail an MOT for a repeater which "wasn't orange enough" some years ago and knowing how common it is for wing mirrors to get knocked/damaged I can't help thinking that a lot of people are going to find they have to replace entire costly wing mirror units rather than simply pop down to Halfords for a new 'stick on' glass. Of course you pays your money and you takes your choice but if all cars are going to be built this way, sooner or later we won't have a choice.
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At the moment, I think they're a design/status thing, rather than a great leap in safety, but I suppose every little helps, and they are higher up.
Ultimately, like all other ancillary lights, they will be run from a central box of LED's using fibre optics (I gather), so at least there won't be any bulbs to break.
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I think they're great, for example, the other day, I was deciding whether to go in the left or right lane at some traffic signals, there were already two cars in the right hand lane, and several in the left, I could see that the Mercedes at the front of the right hand lane was signalling right, as the tip of his mirror was flashing, even though the rear indicator was obscured by the car behind him. Very good for looking down a queue.
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Ah... so some, if not all, of these things can be seen from both directions (I wonder if that was a design feature) and there is a benefit due to improved visibility. Can't help wondering how much more expensive they are going to be to replace though.
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ST
A Mercedes indicating - are you sure.
Every time I see a newish Merc with these indicators I always think what a shame it is that they'll never be used.
Cheers
MPZ
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Ultimately, like all other ancillary lights, they will be run from a central box of LED's using fibre optics (I gather), so at least there won't be any bulbs to break.
I think it is more likely that the led arrays will be mounted out in the light units themselves, powered and controlled by a multiplex - CAN system to provide power and control. The computing capacity of the CAN part will depend upon the number of devices that are being controlled and their function, e.g, engine and emission kit control needs far more computing capacity than ancilliaries. Though funnily enough modern communication and tracking gear might need the most power, I digress.
To give a simple example modern HGV trailer wiring could use just two wires down each side of the trailer. One wire being the power supply, the other a switching wire to control functionality e.g. turn the lights on and off. Simplifies build, maintenance and connections.
This means the equipment can be controlled intelligently. For example the system could detect that a rear light unit has completely failed. Rather than be a one eyed monster, it could be programmed to turn on the appropriate rear fog light.
Of course whether you consider that a good or a bad thing is really the subject for another thread. ;)
Personally, having driven some cars with multiplex systems there are odd times when there does seem a noticable delay between operating the switch and the desired device operating, fraction of a second I know, but noticeable all the same.
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Being pedantic, modern cars no longer have wing mirrors; reason being, they're no longer attached to the wings. Nowadays they're refered to as door mirrors, for obvious reasons.
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Useful where the front indicator is rendered near invisible in darkness due to being inside the same fairing as the headlamps.
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Agreed, Simon. Anything that gives distance between headlights and indicators is welcome. I rather liked the old Rolls and Bentley idea of making the foglights double as indicators.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Agreed, Simon. Anything that gives distance between headlights and indicators is welcome.
>>
The Triumph 2000 had them on the B pillar.
The old Austin 1100 was probably one of the first to have repeaters on the wings.
I seem to recall some that were like ears on the roof but only one each side.
How times change.
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And Citroen DS's had them at roof level - just at the back, I grant you, but indicators were fairly new themselves in those days.
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Why not go back to having little illuminated orange pointers that flick out from the door pillar. We could call them "trafficators". Or has this been done before :o)?
Seriously, like all things they're only of benefit when they're used - which is precious little these days. And of course they'll be more expensive to replace when damaged (repair will be out of the question). With extended service intervals this is the only way workshops and spare parts operations can be kept viable.
Terry
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RE: the central box of LEDs with fibre optics.
Sounds like a great excuse for more money wrangling from the manufacturers.
"Sorry, sir, it appears your indicator LED has stopped working."
"Can you fix it?"
*Mechanic sucks teeth*
"Well, yes, but it will mean replacing the entire sealed unit at great expense."
"Can I fix it myself with a replacement LED and a soldering iron?"
"Absolutely not, sir. Not only do you run the risk of third degree burns, you'll invalidate your entire warranty and at the same time will cause your clutch to fail and fuel tank to explode."
"Really?"
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Personally i think they're a great idea. Much more visible and clear than normal side repeaters, so on a safety basis i say stuff the cost. Also if it means that if i had these on my car and it save me from getting stuffed at a junction, the cost of any future repair is more than offset by the saving in potential excess/insurance cost of the accident, let alone the safety aspect.
With regards to cost, door/wing mirrors (you decide!) are generaly heated, electric, moulded etc and cost a fortune anyway.
I'm all for em. And they look great.
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Yep anything whcih saves tyou from an accident is priceless but one of the points I was trying to make was that if the wing/door mirrors become part of the indicator array you have no option bt to get them replaced with same when the get broken. So when some plonker drives by and smashes the mirror on your carefully parked car, you won't have the option of making do with a simple mirror to replace it. If your heated/electric mirror gets broken you don't have to get it fixed and fully eletrically functioning - all that matters is that it's got glass in it.
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"Sounds like a great excuse for more money wrangling from the manufacturers."
My main reason for believing it! That, and the fact that I heard it from a man who owns a garage...
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They shouldn't cost any more, but probably will, most electrically adjustable and heated mirrors are over £100 anyway, and 10 hyperbright yellow LEDs mounted on a PCB with a clear lens over them would be about £4. You can even buy these "Mercedes Look" repeaters as add-on kits for boy racers, I have seen "good ass" cars with them stuck on!
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"add-on kits for boy racers"
But do they have lights in? It's not as though they're going to get used...
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"They shouldn't cost any more but probably will"
S.T. I only disagree
with one word you've written - my version is:
They shouldn't cost any more but definitely will!
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If you can afford a Merc or whatever with these wing (sorry Dave, door) mirror repeaters, then you probably wouldn't have too much trouble finding the money for a replacement should the worst happen.
Cheers
Rob
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Ah but RTB my argument was predicated on the basis that sooner or later all cars will be required to have them - including yours :-)
No more cheap quick fixes with a mirror glass and some sticky tape.
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Oh and having the money required to buy a replacement doesn't necessarily equate to being delighted at the prospect of so doing ;-)
ps. BTW we're off for a few local 'sherbets' tonight if you & HF fancy it.
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V-man, didn't you start a similar thread about light clusters a while back? The phrase "Or is it just another way for manufacturers to make money" or words to that effect rings a bell* or two.... I think the word "cynical" may also have appeared, although that's a common theme.
(*That's a low-tech bell without any aural enhancement technology, in case you were wondering.)
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Ah yes.....
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=16624
BTW, I found 17 individual posts from you containing the word "cynic" or "cynical" :o)
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Agreed, it is all part of the same 'problem' but I really had forgotten about the light cluster rant. I just can't stand unnecessary complexity and the waste which accompanies it. Let's face it, plenty of people who fall blindly in love with and even boast about the gadgets/gizmos on their cars then complain loudly in places like this when they find out just how costly they are to repair or replace.
As regards my use of the term cynic/cynical - cynicism is directly proportional to age you know :-(
ps - Judging by the amount of 'forum dredging' you've done I take it you've had a quiet day ND. Nice hobby though, I may take it up myself sometime - who knows what might turn up ;-)
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V,
If you're bored you could join the clan and take a lead from NoDosh by taking up a provocative stance in order to keep an interesting thread on the boil.
Not that I would ever do such a thing...:rollseyes:.... ok go on then, you've twisted my arm; back to "Will F1 ever go diesel" thread. he he he :)
FiF
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He's so cynical, and then wants to start fights.
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FiF - You know I'm an agent provocateur and HJ is paying me to keep things interesting and generate 'hits' :-)
Marcos - rest assured I've thought it all out and you v. Cardew would only be the undercard :-)
I'd quite like to see the BogusH v. DD match though! Who would the winner take on ?
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