Having just bought a 36k miler 2002 Focus 1.8TDi I reckoned the cambelt change would be 36-40k miles based on previous experience, but the dealer is adamant that the interval is 100k and is very reluctant to renew the cambelt as part of the service.
Obviously Fords official line is 100k/10 years but does this seem unrealistic to anyone else? Generally I (and most decent mechanics I have spoken to) go on a 40k/4 year rule, and it seems to be more critical on Ford diesels!
I reckon changing the belt at 36k (whilst the car is already in the shop) is just good practice and gives piece of mind but am I being overcautious?
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I have no personal experience of the Ford Focus Diesel, although my brother owns one and is well pleased with it.
I am suprised the dealer is turning away income!
BUT you are being cautious and there is nothing wrong with that far better to pay a relatively small bill now than risk an engine failure.
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Having just bought a 36k miler 2002 Focus 1.8TDi I reckoned the cambelt change would be 36-40k miles based on previous experience, but the dealer is adamant that the interval is 100k and is very reluctant to renew the cambelt as part of the service. Obviously Fords official line is 100k/10 years
I have had similar experience in that:
I bought 1999 a 2.0 petrol Focus and was concerned about a cam belt change.
All the dealers I contacted said same thing.
From 1999 it is 100K til change.
If you want it done then you can go online to the Ford site for a quote. Go through to online service booking and select extended maintenance.
Kingston quote £219 but Manchester £160.
If you have a choice where it is done then search the site via the maps.
I cannot believe they would turn business away so I am sticking with the latest Ford advice. I am assuming some things have inproved.
Pre 1999 it was 40K til a change, as far as I am aware and I think this confuses some people.
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I have heard 35k is best kept to on the focus.But check out car by car breakdown in left red pane should be of help? I only say this as my neighbour has one and it snapped at 37k.
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I have a Citroen Xsara 1.9TD (1999) - the dealer told me I don't have to do the cam belt until 70k, which will be the next service interval next October. Worth getting it done now?
One minor question RE: insurance. I'm 18 and am currently insured on my mum's policy (PLEASE - no arguments over this... we went to our local CIS insurance chap and he sorted it out for us... he suggested it, not us!). The dealer wants two days to do a glow plug change (keeping it in overnight) and is willing to give me a courtesy car. (They're rather nice Renault Meganes... 2.0 HDi) however, I have to insure it myself.
Will this be easy to do as I don't currently have an insurance policy in my name so won't be able to naturally drive it third party? Will I be paying a huge amount for two days fully comp cover?
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David,
I wouldn't worry too much - Pug/Cit diesel cambelts are not known for early failure, and tensioner replacement at the first (72k) change is rarely needed. Nothing is certain of course, and you might want to get it done sooner rather than later - especially as you only appear to be doing 2000 miles in 10 months. I changed the original cambelt on my Xantia TD at 84k and 8 years old - by when it was well cracked and due for a change! No play or roughness in the tensioner or water pump though, so neither was changed.
Ref your insurance question - best bet is to ask your insurance co what they can do, or ask the garage if they offer some sort of scheme (some do I think, but my experience is limited as I avoid taking my car to a garage as much as possible!). Can't see why they want 2 days to do the glow plugs, it's a couple of hours max - maybe they want to do a cold start test in the morning?
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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You read me wrong - I do 10-12K in a year, which means that service intervals for me are roughly yearly. I suspect you're right about the glow plugs... the problem is only noticable when the engine is stone cold.
Will give the garage a ring and ask... I haven't actually looked where the glow plugs are on the Xsara but knowing Citroen are probably in some inaccessible place.
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Ah, I read 70k, added 2 and 3 and made about 6 - service interval used to be 6k, and cambelt was therefore due at 72k - hence the 2k- I think the later ones were on 10k service?
The plugs are on the front of the engine, at the bottom of the head. 3 are not too bad to get to (some injector pipes might need to be moved), but the 4th is behind the injection pump and difficult to get to. Try an extra 4 or 5 seconds after the glow plug light goes out when the engine's cold - this often helps to get slightly older cars fire up.
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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It seems to come down to whether you believe a Ford cambelt will last 100k, which is the sort of mileage I associate with a chain driven cam!
However, I'm getting it done, as one mechanic said to me, 'Why not, do you reckon Ford will pay the bill if it snaps!'
I have a petrol Focus as well and that had its belt changed at 40k - the Haynes manual says 40k for both petrol and diesel.
I wonder if the TDCI diesel is different and thats what the dealer is mistaking it for?
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Does how soon you hit the magical number for a change of cambelt matter? For example Ford Focus 1.8 cambelt change required @40 k (hypothetcially speaking)
Scenario 1.
You spend most of your time bombing up and down the motorway doing a lot of miles, i.e 40k a year.
Scenario 2.
It takes you 3.5 years to knock up 40k miles town driving.
Would you need to change the cambelt for both scenarios at 40k, if so why? Wouldn't you be able to stretch the change a little longer for scenario 1?
I know the dangers of not changing your cambelt at the recommended intervals and always change mine, but this is just an hypothetical question. Thanks in advance.
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I have a petrol Focus as well and that had its belt changed at 40k - the Haynes manual says 40k for both petrol and diesel. I wonder if the TDCI diesel is different and thats what the dealer is mistaking it for?
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My Ford Warranty and Service guide says:
"Renew Zetec-E, Zetec-SE Endura-DI (every 10 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first)"
Other engine vary from 40K upwards.
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I wonder if the TDCI diesel is different and thats what the dealer is mistaking it for?
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No snakey, it says the same, 100k/10 years, for the TDdi as well.
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Just picked up a Haynes manual for my car - the glow plugs look to be thoroughly unpleasant to change as the intercooler has to come off to do so.
As to the cam belt - the manual says 70K, the Haynes manual says 40.... which one should I trust?
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Follow the masses of wisdom on this site and get it changed at about 40K. A couple of hundred quid now may save you a couple of grand if the belt goes!
Baz
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Follow the masses of wisdom on this site and get it changed at about 40K. A couple of hundred quid now may save you a couple of grand if the belt goes! Baz
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For those who do not have access to the item below.
...when the timing belt needed to be changed......Chrysler dealer response was 100.000 miles.......
"Unless belts have a reputation for long, reliable life (as with Ford's Zetec E and Zetec S engines for instance) it's foolhardy to expect one to last more than 60.000 miles. have the tensioner changed at the same time ( and the water pump, if the timing belt drives that, too)."
HJ - Your questions answered by the dealer you can trust
in the Daily Telegraph Motoring section today 10 Jan.
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Just picked up a Haynes manual for my car - the glow plugs look to be thoroughly unpleasant to change as the intercooler has to come off to do so. As to the cam belt - the manual says 70K, the Haynes manual says 40.... which one should I trust?
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The only 70K I can see is:
Endura-DE 9/97 onwards (every 5 years or 70K whichever occurs first). If driving in an environment/conditions where excessive dust, dirt or moisture are encountered a more frequent interval of 40K is recommended.
It also states renew the injection pump drive belt too.
In this case does the UK qualify as an excessive moisture area?
If an extra belt change gives you peace of mind for £160-£219 then go for it.
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I checked recently with a Peugeot main dealer for the cam belt change on a 2000/X plate 406 HDi (currently at 80K) and was told 90K. However, even though I got it in writing I don't think I'm going to wait that long, bearing in mind HJ's frequent warnings on this subject.....
CG
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Interesting reading!
After all the checking up I've done, I've got the belt changed at 40k and will change it again at another 40-50k
I dont understand how Ford move the intervals up and down and I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, its me who will pay for the repairs, not Ford!
I had the same problem with my petrol Focus, and 4 Ford dealers gave different intervals - not very confidence inspiring!
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I would have thought that if a cambelt failed significantly earlier than expected, the dealer should pay for repairs even if the car is out of the warranty period.
Regarding mine; I'll get it done at the 70K service in October. Cam belt failures are covered under my warranty anyway :P
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Interesting reading! After all the checking up I've done, I've got the belt changed at 40k and will change it again at another 40-50k I dont understand how Ford move the intervals up and down and I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, its me who will pay for the repairs, not Ford! I had the same problem with my petrol Focus, and 4 Ford dealers gave different intervals - not very confidence inspiring!
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I understand that Focus belt changes were originally in the 40-50K range but as I posted above and also as HJ published the new interval is 100K for vehicles from about 99 onwards.
So you may get both values from a dealer.
I have contacted several Main dealers and ALL said 100K.
I too was concerned as I had a belt go on a late Cortina but got away with it on a 1.6.
You have got peace of mind and that helps concentration on the road. How much did your belt change cost comapred with the quotes I got?
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If these engines are based on the 1.8d used in the Escorts, then I would be very worried.
The two belts had to be changed at 36k or 3 years, or sooner to be safe from breaking the cambelt with major damage to your engine.
Best check with a Haynes book or look on the net for further info.
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Bearing in mind the ineptitude of most dealers, I'd be inclined to ask yours to put in writing that the belt is designed for 100k miles, and that it is their firm recommendation to change it at that time. Place a copy in your solicitors keeping, and save a quite a few pounds. Otherwise there is a substantial chance that they'll cause damage, unless you know for certain they employ trained mechanics. Oh, by the way, sell at 101k, before any damage caused by the routine change is apparent:)
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Well I got the belt changed by the dealer in the end, as part of the deal of buying the car so it cost me an extra 50 quid which is a good price based on the quotes of 160-200 I was getting
At least I know this belt should be good for 40-50k before renewal is due!
Only problem is, theres a nasty squealing/whistling noise from cold, which I'm assuming is the fanbelt. A good squirt on the back of the belt calmed the noise down so it looks like another belt is required! Although I thought modern auxillary drivebelts would last longer than 38k?
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If its a poly-vee type of belt (lots of grooves across its width) for the alternator, from my experience with the escort, its best to replace it sooner than later as once they start to slip/squeal they tend to shred the grooves away, then the belt comes off.
And use a Ford belt not one from a motor factor/parts shop as they aren't anywhere nearly as good as a Ford belt.
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It is the Poly-vee belt. I'm going to try spraying some BeltSlip spray on first to check thats the problem as the belt itself looks in good condition. I'd hate to spend 20 or so quid and an hours work on the belt and that not be the problem.
Although the noise does sound like a fanbelt and it disappears when things warm up I'm pretty sure it will the source. I'd hope the tensioners and pulleys are OK at this mileage!
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Belt slip spray is only a temporary thing. Have you checked to see what tension is on the belt, they are set quite tight unlike a normal vee belt.
The Haynes book for the escort says, 'if the belt is slipping and/or is running slack or that the auto tensioner is otherwise faulty, it must be renewed.'
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The Endura DE and Endura DI engines look identical, but there is a very important difference between these engines when it comes to cambelts.
The earlier Endura DE engine as used in the mk1 and 2 Mondeo, the Escort and the earlier Fiestas used a dual belt system - one driving the injection pump, and the other driving the camshaft and water pump. These engines are tough and generally bulletproof, but do have a reputation for cam belt failures, and nobody seems to recommend leaving them more than 40,000 miles.
The Endura DI used in the Focus TDDi and later Fiesta diesels uses an offset duplex (Gemini) chain to drive the injection pump, with the camshaft driven off the injection pump by a short conventional belt. These are the ones that carry the 100k recommended intervals. These do not have the same reputation for premature failures.
If it were my car, I'd get the belt done at 60-80k. My earlier engined (DE) Mondeo TD gets new belts and tensioners every 2 years (30k ish). When you see the utter destruction these engines suffer on belt failure (bent valves are just the start - usually it shears the cam bearings and snaps the cam as well), it's money well spent.
Cheers
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thanks for that DP ive stored it.
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I work in a Ford dealership and to my knowledge we have never had a case of a timing belt failing prematurely on a petrol or diesel focus.In fact we have had quite a few in at 120 130k for their first belt change.My own car is a focus TDCI and i am quite happy to go to the recommended service interval based on personal experience.
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I work in a Ford dealership and to my knowledge we have never had a case of a timing belt failing prematurely on a petrol or diesel focus.In fact we have had quite a few in at 120 130k for their first belt change.My own car is a focus TDCI and i am quite happy to go to the recommended service interval based on personal experience.
Reality check: Ford probably don't know themselves. If they get a lot of premature failures, the interval may magically change.
Don't forget to factor in that all 'surgery' carries risks, depending on the skill/experience/integrity of the surgeon.
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I've just had the cambelt on my petrol 2000 Mondeo changed after 95,000 miles and six years.
It hadn't "gone" and wasn't making any funny noises, I just thought it was about time it was changed, in line with Ford's own recommendations.
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Most strain will be put on a belt at a cold start;therefore,a car doing short runs with a lot of cold starts will need it's belt changed earlier than one that spends all it's time at reasonable revs.
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