Road maps give the spelling of a village near Mablethorpe in Lincolnshire as Theddlethorpe St Helen, but local road signs have an "s" added at the end, i.e. Theddlethorpe St Helens. Which is correct, and who is the definitive authority on the spelling of place names?
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I'd be surprised if the original spelling wasn't Theddlethorpe St. Helen's (i.e. with full stop and apostrophe, as well as the 's'), indicating that it was the 'parish of St. Helen's church'.
My family history research has highlighted that lots of places now have a different spelling to the original, often with the letter 'e' dropped from the end, like Lambourn(e) in Berkshire. My earliest known ancestral home (from 1509) was Bishop's Cannings in Wiltshire but the apostrophe has now been dropped from this -- except by the locals I'm pleased to say.
There are many other examples local to where I live. The hamlet of Ponder's Bridge has become Pondersbridge, and the country road leading to it has changed from Turning Tree Road to Turntree Road.
Maybe I'm getting too nostalgic but I prefer to keep the original spellings and placenames -- long live Rutland where they regained their identity after the authorities had meddled with county names and boundaries.
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And some of you may be surprised to learn that Bolton (Lancs, where the Wanderers wander from) used to be Bolton-le-Moors on 100-year old maps.
As regards Authority, I would like to know who authorised the street nameplates in St.Helen's (again Lancs) which show THE FAIRWAY'S.
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Andrew
I don't know if it indicates they are rooted in the past, but the motor club in Bolton has always been Bolton-le-Moors Car club www.bolton-le-moorscarclub.co.uk/
p.s. speaking as somebody born in Sutton, dare I suggest nowhere in St Helen's should be called Fairways, punctuated correctly or not ;-)
Bora - what Bora ?
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Place names often seem strange and arbitrary but are most often simple desciptions which have evolved over time to sound like a new word.
Take Bristol city's example: it is really just a version of Bridgetown.
Originally it was called Brigstowe, and as Dizzy explained the final e often gets left off, and in this case also the g, so then it was Bristow.
Those familiar with the Bristol dialect will readily understand the current spelling. (Sylvial, thee's got thee Cortinal down a No Entray whur thee casn't back'n assn't?)
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And Nottingham used to be Snotingham (Snot's farm)
I have a very interesting (?)book on the history of placenames which I must dig out!
On another tack. My uncle used to be the area (road )surveyor in North Yorks. He decided that village road signs could be more attractive and found old mill stones to mount them on. While doing so he found that Kirbymoorside used to be called KirKbymoorside and gradually changed all the signs to that spelling - did he have the authority? I doubt it!
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"And Nottingham used to be Snotingham (Snot's farm)"
Good job they didn't try that in Scunthorpe*
*Copyright Humphrey Lyttleton's scriptwriter, 2001.
--
Dr Alex Mears
Seat Leon Cupra
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
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My aunt used to write to me using the archaic form of Little Comberton, Comberton Parva, near Pershore, Worcs.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Oh to live in Ae!
Is there anywhere with a shorter place name?
The RAC Rally, when it was proper event and not some half assed thrash round a few Welsh forests used to use the hairpin through the farmyard in Ae every year. Just to give a motoring link and thus avoid complaints.
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Nicely rescued FiF.
I forgot to add that the subject of one of her letters was the replacement of a Sunbeam Rapier with the latest technology from France, a Citroen GS.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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FiF
I've driven (motoring link) through the village of Y in France
Terry
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terryb,
But have you ever driven through the village of W*nk in Austria. Used to make my kids giggle like mad and they always asked "Where are we now Dad?" until I said the name of the village - "Austria" was no good, nor was "the Tyrol", nor was "near Innsbruck" - it had to be that word!
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FiF I've driven (motoring link) through the village of Y in France Terry
Is it twinned with "Eye" in Cambridgeshire?
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Our government, in an attempt to rid the nation of reminders of the past, has changed a lot of place names and roadsigns from 'apartheid' ones to more PC ones.
A laudable effort [though I feel their priorities should have been towards silly things like healthcare, security, education , but I digress]
So Verwoedburg became Centurion, Pietersburg became Polokwane, Bloemfontein became Manguang, Transvaal became Gauteng etc etc etc
However, the maps haven't been updated yet, and neither have all the roadsigns... so it can be a bit of a problem if you are an 'out of towner'.
Likewise, the old regime used to insist on the use of Afrikaans for many things, so you'd see signs like "Lughawe" [airport], "Stad" [City] etc - very confusing for anybody who wasn't bilingual [ie 100% of tourists!]
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Of no interest whatsoever possibly but here's what my interesting book says
Theddlethorpe St Helen. Tedlagsdorp (1086 Domesday Book). Possibly "outlying farmstead or hamlet of a man called Theodlac". Old English personal name + Old Scandinavian "thorp". Distinguising affix (St Helen) from the dedication of the church.
So is the church St Helens or Church of St Helen????.
No motoring link I'm afraid!!
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Ewell, here in Surrey, was originally Etwelle (sounds like good meal?)
El Hacko
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In fact in 933 it was recorded as Euuelle, but Etwelle in Domesday book (probably French mishearing!). It means "place at the river source" (Old English "aewell" which in Norman French could well be written as et welle)
I promise I shall stop there 'cos I am obviously boring you with my interesting book! And I can't think of a motoring link except I once drove through Ewell and Mark will not be impressed by that as a link!
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It seems that some of you took no notice of Mark\'s earlier warning, so this thread has been write locked.
DD.
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