'At one stage I must have travelled at least six miles in the outside lane at 60 mph purely because the motorway was in effect reduced to a dual carriageway. All this time, there was not one vehicle (not even a lorry) in the inside lane to prevent vehicles moving over.'
So in effect you were also part of the problem. During this six miles why didn't you move in to the inside lane? It's perfectly legal to 'undertake' if there is a queue of slower moving traffic in the middle and outside lanes.
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i've stopped getting exasperated by it now, i just undertake as and when i see fit. The thing is, i get loads of abuse of people i'm undertaking, when their sat in the middle lane at 60mph for no reason whatsoever!
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We've been here before - there is NO specific offence of 'undertaking'. The worst that could happen is that you could be done for careless driving or driving without due care, but I think in that sort of case the CPS would have a hard time proving it.
If everybody starts doing it, it will become accepted practice and some of the jams might start to ease a bit. Often frightens the middle lane brigade into moving over as well - just got to watch they don't suddenly veer across into you....
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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i've stopped getting exasperated by it now, i just undertake as and when i see fit. The thing is, i get loads of abuse of people i'm undertaking, when their sat in the middle lane at 60mph for no reason whatsoever!
Same here - in fact I've often seen the situation Rob describes however I'll be in the inside lane, driving as per the highway code, undertaking miles and miles of traffic.
Occasionally get horned or people flashing their lights. Good mood I'll ignore them, bad one or I've got the window open I make a nice pointing over the roof of the car "git yer ruddy car in the right (or left as it were) lane" gesture. 95% of them still never move over. Same as my comment in the Stupidity thread - these are the people who always assume that everyone else is the one in the wrong...
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Very good point Rob,
I use the M1, M6 and M69 daily and I have found that no-one likes to drive correctly on the M1. I think that drivers stick in the outside lane because they feel that it will be the quickest way to get to their destination.
I once paced myself against a Porsche 911 (I was in my montego diesel). I got on the M1 at 21a and stayed in the left hand lane, overtaking occasionally , but never pulling into the outside lane. The Porsche was in the outside lane tailgating everyone. The result.........I won by many miles!
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"The result.........I won by many miles!"
How did you know?
"The Porsche was in the outside lane tailgating everyone"
How do you know that if you were miles ahead of him?
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I knew I was miles ahead because he didn't pass me when I was on the slip road getting off.
I saw him tailgating when I got onto the M1.
Happy now?
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I am always happy to see such logic!
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We can't all be as clever as you.
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I had my first experience of the M1 this weekend!! What a fine display of driving from everyone!! Going up north it was pretty much stop go all the way from M25 to Derby but coming back the roads were ok - but the number of idiots sitting in middle lane was stupid! They all got a blast of my lights and a chop across the front to th inside but still they don't get the hint!! Next step is bungees attached to the nearside!
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I think every motorway/dual carriageway is the same.
I drive 70 miles a day (M27/A31) and this is very typical.
Incredibly frustrating and leads to drivers weaving in and out of lanes trying to make up ground.
I think speed limiters on lorries plays a large part in this.You say you averaged 60MPH, well its probably not a coincidence lorries are limited to 56MPH... Nobody moves back into the left lane because no one will let them back into the right lane again.
I did'nt know it is OK to undertake... perhaps I will try this more often from now on even if I recieve some unpleasant hand gestures.
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Would be nice to get an opinion from one of the legal guys or police on the site on the legalities of undertaking. My reading of the highway code suggests it's not allowed except in lines of busy traffic.
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Commerdriver - your wish is my command:
The Highway Code states:
Don?t overtake on the left unless:
the vehicle in front is signalling right and it is safe to pass through, or
in SLOW moving traffic QUEUES where vehicles on the right are
travelling slower.
In slow moving queues move to the left only to turn left. Do not change lanes to the left to overtake.
The Highway Code (HC) sets out a guide for safe standards for various aspects of road use. Whilst failure to observe a provision of the HC in itself will not render a driver liable to prosecution (for the HC is not Law) non observance can be relied upon as tending to establish liability in cases of dangerous/careless driving ? criminal offences. Likewise in proving liability in civil proceedings.
The case Trentham v Rowlands 1974 relied on ? overtake only on the right ? never move to a lane on the left to overtake? holding that it was potentially dangerous and thus DANGEROUS DRIVING to overtake another at 70 mph by moving over to the inner lane to do so, particularly having regard to the obligation on drivers being overtaken to return to the nearside lane.
For a number of years HMG have been looking at the possibility of allowing undertaking but as yet have not looked on the practice favourably.
DVD
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?overtake only on the right ? never move to a lane on the left to overtake ... potentially dangerous... to overtake another at 70 mph by moving over to the inner lane to do so."
Out if interest...
So, what if you're travelling in the left hand lane already, ie. you don't have to move left to undertake them, you are in fact 'passing' them. (no?)
Stu.
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Overtake (Def):
"to move past and take up a position in front of"
DVD
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Thanks DVD, maybe some of the undertaking muppets will now resign themselves to sitting and waiting their turn until the numpty causing the blockage does decide to move over, instead of undertaking everything in sight and shoving back in with total disregard for everyone else.
We're all trying to get somewhere!
PP
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I agree "undertaking muppets" should wait their turn if you refer to those who deliberately change lane to the left to scream past before hacking back in. But what about those who have patiently sat at 60-70 in the inside lane, mile after mile, whilst a camel-train of numpties charge up to 80 then back to 50 again in the outside lane?
Should everyone in the inside brake heavily each time the next lane does so to avoid an undertake? Not blinking likely.
I regularly travel the A31/M27 as mentioned above and can guarantee that from Junction 3 of the M27 to the A338 junction at Ringwood you can stay in the inside lane at 60 and be overtaken by the same car over a dozen times, yet reach Ringwood within a cars-length of the prat who hasn't moved from the outside lane for over 20 miles. I know this because in the past I have been that prat.....
Now I have seen the light, what frustrates is if you come across a slow moving vehicle, such as a crane or heavily laden truck. You signal and wait... and wait.... and wait.... only to watch the car-and-a-half gap between each lemming in the outside lane shrink to the length of a very small thing. Like the drivers' brains.
I agree there should be reminder signs, similar to those advising of minimum safe distances you find all across France. The French also make much more use of specific "no overtaking for lorries" signs on dual carriageways, particularly in hilly areas. Wouldn't cost a fortune but would make life a whole lot easier.... assuming anyone paid the slightest attention.
As above, I used to be one of the brainless ones. I also exceed the speed limit where the road is clear. I'm not perfect, few of us are. But the above just seems to make sense, dagnabbit!
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Some excellent points here chaps (and chapesses).
Daveyjp - I didn't undertake for precisely the same reasons that DVD gave. To my mind, two lanes of traffic moving at 50 - 60 mph does not constitute a queue. Besides, wouldn't it have been rather dangerous to attempt to force my way over to the inside lane, then drive at 70 mph in the inside lane watching for people moving over, then forcing my way back to the outside lane? So, no, I don't think that I was contributing to the problem ;-)
Basically if I could afford a helicopter I'd be there!
Cheers
Rob
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I don't undertake, either, because I'm sure any of the centre lane hogger idiots is perfectly capable of pulling over suddenly to the left without checking mirrors. Didn't realise I was doing the right thing for the wrong (legal) reasons, though.
I do reckon however that I shouldn't have to slow down in my inside lane when the other two (overtaking) lanes become full and go slower than I am.
8 ball
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I do pass vehicles on the left, fo rexample if on a 3-lane motorway I'm in the inside lane and approaching a vehicle going more slowly in the middle lane, I don't wee why I should have to perform 4 lane changes to get round them. I do, however, keep a very close eye on the middle-lane vehicle, ready to dive left if they move (I don't do it if there's no hard shoulder to escape onto).
I think this is very different from going from a position behind someone, overtaking on the inside, and cutting in again in front (usually into the safe distance they had left themselves), causing them and all following traffic to brake. I don't do that.
Been told by a traffic plod that they would not have a problem with the first situation, but would have with the second.
If the lane outside suddenly backs up, it would be nonsense to say the lane inside should slow down as well to avoid "undertaking" - they're not moving across to the inside to do so.
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