Saw one in Italy on hols. Not a pretty sight.
I can't believe that Mercs are now better looking than Beemers!
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Not seen one in the flesh but caught what I believe was the ad. for the 5 series and my first impression of the front was Ford Mondeo (headlights ?). I didn't get a good look as I was distracted but it did look very odd for a BMW. I'll reserve further judgement until I've seen more though.
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Went to a tennis tournament in Portugal the other week and BMW were sponsoring it. There were 5-series BM's everywhere of course but mr John McEnroe apparently would not drive one because he said it was so ugly.
Not sure if that statement was true or not but the other players turned up in the BM's and McEnroe turned up in a Citroen.
Personally I thought it was ugly but I'm sure it will grow on me as the 7-Series has.
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Not sure if that statement was true or not but the other players turned up in the BM's and McEnroe turned up in a Citroen.
Perhaps that is all he can afford these days :)
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After the superb E39 5 Series, which was a great car in looks as well as driveability and won What Car`s Best Executive Award for seven consecutive years, IMHO the new E60 is a Chris Bangle (the American designer) disaster and deserves to bomb in the sales charts.
A car has to have design flair and style, and if BMW consider they can market such an appalling design (both exterior and interior), without having an impact on their sales, they have a rude awakening on their hands. Mercedes must be currently rubbing their hands with glee !!!!
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.. is a Chris Bangle (the American designer) disaster .... >>
I know Bangle/Bungle has been called many things and has a dedicted hate web site; but to call him American!!
Anyway, the fact is that the way the E60 looks will only matter to BMW and to those who wish to buy it.
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Both the 7 and the 5 series look so ugly, or at least so 'alien', that you can't believe they are the successors of so good-looking cars as the previous models. I guess BMW is trying to make a statement here, but I can't read it!
Vagelis.
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I think the 5 looks fantastic, but then I admire the 7 and Z4 as well. Bold, ultra-modern, utterly distinctive and with huge presence - yet within the framework of BMW's traditional design language. Whereas recent Merc designs like the new E-class and CLK are utterly conventional and completely predictable. Very pretty and well-proportioned, but predictable nonetheless.
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Spot on Burnout....
Remember, if you can, Ford's Sierra or for the younger 'Roomers, the Focus.
Both slammed at launch but they became the "model" for the future. We all moan that all cars look alike, so someone goes out and creates something distinctive and different and we're still not happy!
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I guess you're right at the point you are making: these new designs _are_ bold and ultra-modern and distinctive. I think it's the departure from 'classic' car forms that appears 'alien' to me and make me consider them 'ugly'. Maybe with time I'll start to like them.
On the other hand, I read on a magazine that BMW is performing a premature facelift on the 7-series to make it 'easier to swallow', so to speak.
As a reference point for 'classic car form' I define the original Alfa 156 (before the facelift).
Vagelis.
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Vagelis
Each to their own - absolutely agree with your right to not like it! Saw one in the carpark in Safeway the other day and thought it looked better in the flesh...
Agree with you re Alfa's - they take design & innovation seriously but with a nod to their heritage. Shame about the public's perception of the bits underneath!
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>> BMW is trying to make a statement here, but I can't read it!>>
The statement is "Buy a BMW 5 series only if you like it and don't care about what other people think of it. BMW will then be an exclusive marque again, chosen by people who know how to appreciate quality".
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The statement is "Buy a BMW 5 series only if you like it and don't care about what other people think of it. BMW will then be an exclusive marque again, chosen by people who know how to appreciate quality".
I would say "BMW [...] chosen by people who know how to appreciate peculiar design"
Maybe BMW wants to actually sell fewer cars, to those who 'go upstream'.
Besides, the fact remains that the 7-series is having a facelift, which means radical design reconsidered, at least for this more conservative target group.
Vagelis.
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at least for this more conservative target group.
I think this is a key point.
For me, the Z4 works. Aggressive design is great for sports cars, but not for plutocrat transport.
On reflection, the new "5" may be even worse looking than the Lexus GS300!
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Read in Autoexpress (alongside the spy shots of the facelifted 7) that BMW had sold 202,000 across the world. Now work that they retail at between 52 and 57 k in the uk and multiply that by the amount sold and some ridiculous sum appears in my calculator. I have driven one and it was sublime. The only reason I wouldn't buy one is that an M3 CSL is only a bit more and a lot better.
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I wish it was. I like to think that I like BMWs for all the right reasons and if they're pig ugly but still very good cars (and the jury seems to be out on the second as much as the first) that would make me very happy indeed :-)
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I remember when the E36 3 series came out in the early nineties that adjectives such as "ugly" and "controversial" were also used to describe the styling. The new 5 has been a regular sight here in Munich since well before the product launch in May. I think it looks good in black and silver but very dodgy in white. Having had them as rental cars I can also confirm that it's a fabulous driver, but I've not yet tried one with the active steering.
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First sat in one at the BMW FIZ in Munich back at Easter. Didn't like it then and I don't like it now. I was told (off the record) that the 7 is being restyled because of bad customer feedback.
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Well, fromt he pictures, I have to say I quite like the look. Not seen it in the flesh though.
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Sales of the new 7 series have bombed very badly in the U.S.A.
hence the hurried revamp after only 18 months into its production cycle!!
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Sales of the new 7 series have bombed very badly in the U.S.A. hence the hurried revamp after only 18 months into its production cycle!!
This is just another one of those urban myths which gets to be taken for fact by repetition. In fact, BMW now routinely "facelift" thier models every 18 months or so. (Just look at the annual changes to the 3 series if you are not convinced.)
As for ugly, or prculiar tastes in design, as the saying goes "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".
I saw one in the flesh last wek and like it very much. The eyebrows on the front lights may take a little time to get used to, but I shall be replacing my E39 with an E60 when the time comes.
Oh yes, before I forget - Politics of envy and whingeeing for whingeing's sake and all that. Just to add spice to the deabte. ;-)
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This is just another one of those urban myths which gets to be taken for fact by repetition. In fact, BMW now routinely "facelift" thier models every 18 months or so. (Just look at the annual changes to the 3 series if you are not convinced.)
eMBe
In early May I was standing in the 3D design studio at FIZ in Munich (you have to go through an 'airlock' to get in there!) with two BMW engineers talking about the 7 restyle - it is not an 'urban myth'. BMW are not happy because the car is not selling - styling and driver ergonomics are the problem, apparently.
At the end of the day BMW want to sell as many cars as they can, and they're in a very conservative market sector. I'm sure the car will sell well, but I suspect they'll lose some sales to MB.
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... at FIZ in Munich (you have to go through an 'airlock' to get in there!) with two BMW engineers talking ... >>
The only airlocks I have gone through are for the clean conditions area within nuclear "facilities". So I have to bow to Aprilia's insider knowledge of "Spike Milligan" (I mean A Gilligan) type sexed-up story.
Before anyone gets uptight about whingeing, I am always whingeing on about whingers, and I did use a ;-) symbol !!
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I wonder if the i-drive in the seven series may also be given a work over?
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>>Oh yes, before I forget - Politics of envy and whingeeing for whingeing's sake and all that. Just to add spice to the deabte. ;-)>>
eMBe
I don`t know if the above comment was directed at me, but if you took the trouble to check my profile, you will see that I already own a BMW.
One thing is certain, if Bungle continues to head their design
studio, I will definitely not be buying another!!!
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The 'airlock' is not for cleanliness, its to control who goes in and out. It only just holds one person. Actually the facilities are good, but not quite as impressive as you might think. They have lots of Bavarian guys at benches making up body profiles out of wood to check fit and line at critical points (e.g. grille, bonnet, wing interface. Most of the whole body/interior styling is done in CAD and projected onto a 'video wall'.
BTW - not 'sexed up' at all, that's exactly how it is. Hopefully there might be someone else on here who can confirm.
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Oh yes, before I forget - Politics of envy and whingeeing for whingeing's sake and all that. Just to add spice to the deabte. ;-)
Whingeing, whingeing! ~:-P
Vagelis.
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>>One thing is certain, if Bungle continues to head their design
studio, I will definitely not be buying another!!!<<
Rubbish. BMW owners will buy anything that has got the bavarian propellor badge-ugly or not. Look at the Z3: proof, if any was needed, that you can sell anything to anyone with the right branding.
I take my hat off to those clever marketing gurus.
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BMW's are all beginning to look aggresive. Unfortunately a lot of people dont like this look and are now leaving BMW's grasp.
I dont mind the look of them that much but with the cars looking more and more aggresive it could explain why people think BMW drivers drive more aggresively than other marques.
It could be where all this hate for BMW drivers comes from.
BTW I dont hate BMW drivers.
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Ugliness in cars is a funny thing. Time is a great leveler of car design. For example (and these are personal thoughts)
New Primera. I thought it looked great when it first came out, now it makes me feel ill.
Sierra, derided on launch, I thought it was ugly. with a little fine tuning it became quite acceptable, and if I see them, still looks ok.
Focus - Sharp at launch and still sharp. Time has been kind.
Cavaliers, Bland on launch, bland till death. Still bland
156, sex on wheels, when estate launched I couldnt believe they made it look sexier. Sexy then, sexy now and will always always be so.
Latest Vectra, back looked ugly on launch and time has not improved it any - looks worse in fact.
New Avensis. Ugly I thought. Now I think - hmmmm has presence and style.
New 7 series. Ugly back at launch and getting uglier......
Lesson? car design needs to be appreciated over time for the full effect.
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I wouldn't mind a 5 or 7 series on my drive. I think it looks fine.
Splodgeface
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Spy shots of Audi's new A6 look bad also. Hideous open mouth grille and very ugly back end.
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I have just seen a new BMW 5 Series; it really looks a mess and makes the 7 series appear well proportioned and balanced in comparison. Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
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Ugly or not (I personally think it is a mess), it still won a recent road test report in Auto Express in diesel 530d manual spec, when compared with a Merc E 270CDi, Volvo S80 D5SE and an Audi A6 2.5TDi. I see the 0 to 60 time in the Beemer is an amazing 6.9 secs, which is not bad for a diesel and totally blew away the opposition. What a shame it looks so appalling
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I see the 0 to 60 time in the Beemer is an amazing 6.9secs, which is not bad for a diesel .......
Not bad for any car I'd say, let alone a large 4 door saloon, especially one that could probably average well over 30mpg too!!
It is a shame about the looks though - inside and out. In the past, whatever you thought about the exterior styling, you could rely on BMW to always make you feel special when you climbed behind the wheel. IMO the ergonomics on the E30/E36 3s, E34/E39 5s and E32/E38 7s were very hard to fault (The E39 probably being the best overall).
I've sat at the wheel of a new 7 and even as BMW "fan" I can't really say that it does it for me.
Chad.
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Being on good terms with the local BM dealership, I can report I've had a drive ! - First impression - yes my "old" 5 parked next to an identically coloured silver new version is prettier, of that there is no doubt in my mind. The old 5 is almost perfect
in its asthetic and dynamic balance in my opinion, and I would suggest that you would have to go a long way to find a smarter looking design that has aged very well. The 15 miles of mixed driving on the new five reinforces the dynamic qualities of the old and then some, it feels superior, it is quieter (an already quiet oil-burner may I say) Having played with the I drive on a seven last year and felt positive about it I can report that the upgraded version in the five is easier to use. Would I buy or lease one...YES !
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I think so. But most of the new car look like that these days. The new BMW 7 series is an ugly car but they have taken it to far with this one. The ford mondeo has the same sort of shape the the BMWs.
Well look at that
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I went to the launch of this in London last week. General impressions were:-
1 Thought it was very sharply designed inside.
2 The issues on rear space and boot space have definitely been answered.
3 I found myself uncomfortable with the external appearance both in the angular look and lights.
4 I thought the options list could end up making it a very expensive car although the technology available is impressive.
5 I went home very happy with my previous shape 530iSE Touring and no desire for a change.
Will the appearance put people off buying it? It probably depends on the driving experience compared to the competition.
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Had a new 7 series behind me for a few miles yesterday. Didn't realise until it turned off as to that point I'd thought it was a Hyundai XG30.
Says it all really!
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I also thought that the new 5-series looked ugly from the motoring press photos. But I saw one on the road last week and it's not as bad as the photos make out.
Still isn't elegant though.
Why is it that only Jaguar seem able to make an elegant luxury saloon?
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Read a line in some magazine the other day which most succinctly summed-up the new 5's visage:
"The Mikado" !!
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