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How long before someone comes up with a small generator (run on red diesel) that you could store in the car.
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How long before someone comes up with a small generator (run on red diesel) that you could store in the car.
Well if you substitute red diesel for petrol, may I present the Vauxhall Ampera from 2012-2015 or the BMW i3 range extender from 2013-2019.
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Or the forthcoming Mazda MX-30 range extender.
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How long before someone comes up with a small generator (run on red diesel) that you could store in the car.
The BMW I3 launched in 2013 had- as an option - a 650cc petrol engine mated to a generator which would recharge the battery when charge fell to around 10%. Made sense when battery only range was 60 miles, then 120 miles (2016 facelift) but when range grew to 220 miles was dropped.
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I do not know how the AA/RAC deal with cars that are stranded without charge but something like this could do nicely, at least to get them to a suitable charger
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I do not know how the AA/RAC deal with cars that are stranded without charge but something like this could do nicely, at least to get them to a suitable charger
I know the RAC has a special van for dealing with it and has a generator onboard.
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I do not know how the AA/RAC deal with cars that are stranded without charge but something like this could do nicely, at least to get them to a suitable charger
I know the RAC has a special van for dealing with it and has a generator onboard.
Not good old fossil fuel to get an EV charged and out of trouble!
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Think hydrogen powered cars be the next step no emissions just water
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Think hydrogen powered cars be the next step no emissions just water
eventually, yes I agree, its just the problem of producing green Hydrogen which is being worked on, there are ways which to do it, some apparently are easier than others but r&d will sort it, but it will happen, China are using it for Buses, and it could be used to drive good old engines instead of fossil fuels imo
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Are you hoping for hydrogen fuelled ICE cars or hydrogen fuel cell? Toyota are working on both - they recently raced a car using hydrogen to fuel an engine, but the buses in China, and the Toyota Mirai, are fuel cell vehicles.
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<< yes I agree, its just the problem of producing green Hydrogen which is being worked on, >>
No doubt ways will be found, but I have serious doubts about the notion of supplying many millions of cars doing what they do now with ICE, or EV for that matter. As a minority, perhaps.
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I do not know how the AA/RAC deal with cars that are stranded without charge but something like this could do nicely, at least to get them to a suitable charger
I know the RAC has a special van for dealing with it and has a generator onboard.
Not good old fossil fuel to get an EV charged and out of trouble!
Yes, The AA said they use a diesel generator on board to get an EV going again, no idea how long it takes to charge enough though they didn`t say....
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Not good old fossil fuel to get an EV charged and out of trouble!
POssibly. Or it could be bio-diesel.
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There is a complex trade off between hydrogen and electric.
Both require electricity generation. This is similar for both - either green (turbines, solar etc) or fossil fuel based. Electicity generated can either be sent directly through the grid to a waiting EV battery for storage, or used to manufacture hydrogen.
Making hydrogen uses energy - currently ~20% of the electrical energy is lost in the process.
Both need distribution networks and capacity increases. Costs money to set up, run and incurs energy losses. Bulk distribution of hydrogen needs more development.
The electric grid uses well proven technology. Hydrogen can be distributed through either pipeline or compressed and delvered in tankers (very energy intensive).
Electric motors are very efficient (85%+) at converting stored energy to motion. Hydrogen less so as fuel cells are ~60% efficient in converting hydrogen to electricity, and if used as ICE will suffer all of the frictional and heat losses asscoiated with normal ICE.
Overall the efficiency of hydrogen as a fuel seems materially worse than electric/battery. There is only one fundamental benefit - a hydrogen vehicle will be materially lighter than its battery equivalent and use less energy in use.
On balance my guess is that hydrogen may have advantages for HGVs, site equipment and where high energy levels or extended range is required. For everyday personal transport battery will prevail.
This is just an opinion and I may be wrong. But those waiting for the emergence of hydrogen to replace their existing ICE may (IMHO) be waiting a very long time!
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On balance my guess is that hydrogen may have advantages for HGVs, site equipment and where high energy levels or extended range is required. For everyday personal transport battery will prevail.
This is just an opinion and I may be wrong. But those waiting for the emergence of hydrogen to replace their existing ICE may (IMHO) be waiting a very long time!
This is my thought as well...although for HGVs/Buses there is an interssting YouTube video showing some trials in Germany using overhead cables to power trucks on the motorways.
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This is my thought as well...although for HGVs/Buses there is an interssting YouTube video showing some trials in Germany using overhead cables to power trucks on the motorways
There is a trial on the cards for the motorway near Sc***horpe
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I share Sammy1’s concerns in his post of 3 Nov regarding safety for pedestrians.
A neighbour down the road recently followed the lead of his neighbour in the adjoining house (must keep up!) and acquired a Tesla Model 3, he parks on his drive at an angle facing towards the house next door. The second time I saw the car it was sitting on the drive with a very crumpled nearside front corner. The metal railings between the two front gardens were demolished and the porch area of the house next door had had the mortar knocked out of the stonework next to the front door over an area of about half a square metre with some of the stones pushed inwards (these are solidly built Edwardian semis fortunately). A day or two later the drive was empty apart from some very obvious tyre marks and a section of railing with a Tesla-shaped dent in it. Probably one of those accidents where the go pedal is mistaken for the stop pedal with some added power thrown in for good measure.
I should add that the only time I have spoken to this neighbour was to tell him he’d nearly run me over when he was reversing out of his drive in his wife’s car one frosty morning without waiting for the rear screen to defrost, children in the back, no doubt in a hurry to get them to school. Since his Tesla has returned from Tesla hospital, I make sure to check he is not on the move or even in his car before I cross the end of his drive! A few days ago I was waiting at a pedestrian crossing for the lights to change when the characteristic grille-less bumper of another Tesla appeared (they are proliferating round these parts). I made sure it was at a standstill and engaged eye contact with the driver before venturing across.
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This is just an opinion and I may be wrong. But those waiting for the emergence of hydrogen to replace their existing ICE may (IMHO) be waiting a very long time!
My two reason why Hydrogen is a non starter:
1. The R101
2. The Hindenberg
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This is just an opinion and I may be wrong. But those waiting for the emergence of hydrogen to replace their existing ICE may (IMHO) be waiting a very long time!
My two reason why Hydrogen is a non starter:
1. The R101
2. The Hindenberg
It was said the coating on the ships set light and caused a catastrophe because the coating was flammable, not because of the hydrogen as that would have gone before the fire started, unless you know better
and as certain batteries are flammable can destroy a car in no time so not much difference apart from safety features built into batteries, assuming they work?
Lets just say I cannot see all cars being mains powered without a lot more electricity generation regardless of how good batteries are becoming, even with this new tech, range is increased depending on weight of car up to 600 miles apparently..
I personally would be happy with that if the price was right, the only problem for me would be charging, though would still wait for Hydrogen regardless of time it takes to hit the market as it will do eventually!
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For new cars, there's simply no point in having hydrogen-burning internal combustion engines because a using the hydrogen in a fuel-cell is much more efficient. But pure battery EVs have improved to the level where even fuel-cell cars won't be needed.
JCB is introducing hydrogen fuelled internal combustion engines for some of their machines. The rationale for this is that a lot of the machinery operates where there's nowhere to charge batteries and also they can adapt their current diesel engines to run on hydrogen by converting them to spark-ignition among other things. A lot cheaper than going over to fuel-cells. JCB have introduced battery electric machines too, which are a good option where charging is available.
As I've said before, one area where hydrogen combustion engines could make sense is in converting classic cars. There must be a market for that, given that people are prepared to convert classics into battery EVs now.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 06/11/2021 at 10:13
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It was said the coating on the ships set light and caused a catastrophe because the coating was flammable, not because of the hydrogen as that would have gone before the fire started,
I can accept the coating was flammable, but where would the hydrogen have 'gone' if it didn't contribute to the fire?
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It was said the coating on the ships set light and caused a catastrophe because the coating was flammable, not because of the hydrogen as that would have gone before the fire started,
I can accept the coating was flammable, but where would the hydrogen have 'gone' if it didn't contribute to the fire?
It is so light that it would simply have risen up into the atmosphere and be rapidly diluted far beyond any explosion or combustion hazard.
Those anxious to cite two airships as a reason for avoiding hydrogen today may care to do a search for the major explosions caused around the world every year by petroleum fuels and natural gas. Also worth remembering that we used town gas for more than a hundred years and hydrogen was a major component of that.
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I can accept the coating was flammable, but where would the hydrogen have 'gone' if it didn't contribute to the fire?
It is so light that it would simply have risen up into the atmosphere and be rapidly diluted far beyond any explosion or combustion hazard.
Beyond the flammable, burning coating, without catching fire? Looking at footage of the Hindenberg disaster, I'd say that was far more than just the flammable coating on fire.
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" Hindenburg's covering was made of cotton canvas doped with a solution of cellulose acetate butyrate, to which aluminum powder (and in some places iron oxide) had been added."
I.e. highly inflammable.
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I'd say that was far more than just the flammable coating on fire.
Yes it was a bad fire but the coating was thick and the reaction of materials made for a serious fire which was blamed on the Hydrogen, which was proved to not be the case
apparently tests have been done on hydrogen tanks to see if they could ignite the hydrogen, but as soon as the tanks were split the hydrogen leaked out before the sparks could ignite it. in fact I would say hydrogen is safer than batteries
although Teslas new batteries may be an exception to the rule at the moment?
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Also worth remembering that we used town gas for more than a hundred years and hydrogen was a major component of that.
Maybe again as they want to use the existing gas network for Hydrogen, would be a waste of boilers to sell those Hydrogen combination boilers and not use them, and no reason imo why it couldn`t be adapted for use in cars, IMO, of course!
Ps hydrogen I expect you know burns invisibly, so it cannot be seen and hydrogen boilers have sensors to know when the gas is burning.
Edited by Bolt on 06/11/2021 at 15:48
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Ps hydrogen I expect you know burns invisibly, so it cannot be seen and hydrogen boilers have sensors to know when the gas is burning.
So does my natural gas boiler. How else would the system know?
Edited by misar on 06/11/2021 at 17:00
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Ps hydrogen I expect you know burns invisibly, so it cannot be seen and hydrogen boilers have sensors to know when the gas is burning.
So does my natural gas boiler. How else would the system know?
My not too ancient combi boiler has a little window in the burner chamber which shows the gas burning in a lovely shade of blue! You can also see the burner rising when hot water is called for. You can also observe the thermostats clicking and the burner firing up and down and observe the pilot flame
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<< It is so light that it would simply have risen up into the atmosphere and be rapidly diluted far beyond any explosion or combustion hazard. >>
That is a ridiculous suggestion. It would certainly mix with the atmosphere and burn rapidly if there was any spark or source of ignition. It is much more flammable than the coating material - which apparently caught easily ?
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<< It is so light that it would simply have risen up into the atmosphere and be rapidly diluted far beyond any explosion or combustion hazard. >>
That is a ridiculous suggestion. It would certainly mix with the atmosphere and burn rapidly if there was any spark or source of ignition. It is much more flammable than the coating material - which apparently caught easily ?
Yes, misar hasen't returned with an explanation since the risible suggestion at lunchtime.
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<< It is so light that it would simply have risen up into the atmosphere and be rapidly diluted far beyond any explosion or combustion hazard. >>
That is a ridiculous suggestion. It would certainly mix with the atmosphere and burn rapidly if there was any spark or source of ignition. It is much more flammable than the coating material - which apparently caught easily ?
Yes, misar hasen't returned with an explanation since the risible suggestion at lunchtime.
My risible suggestion as you put it was about gaseous hydrogen leaking from an airship into the open atmosphere. If you want to investigate hydrogen safety further there is plenty of detailed information available. Here is something simple to get you started,
www.nrdc.org/experts/christian-tae/hydrogen-safety...r
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range is increased depending on weight of car up to 600 miles apparently..
I personally would be happy with that if the price was right, the only problem for me would be charging,
With a 600 mile range the typical motorist could recharge their battery once a fortnight while they were asleep. Quite possibly no need to visit a fuel station ever again.
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With a 600 mile range the typical motorist could recharge their battery once a fortnight while they were asleep. Quite possibly no need to visit a fuel station ever again.
If that mileage range included running all lights and heater, assuming the heater was needed, or aircon, then that would be good enough for most people.
assuming charging stations could be accessible anywhere without problems and do not take more than 10 minutes to fully charge, and there isn`t a massive queue to get to it, which I think would probably happen if problems occur with charging stations!
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My two reason why Hydrogen is a non starter:
1. The R101
2. The Hindenberg
Interesting debate about the Hindenburg is ongoing.
In that case the aircraft was operating, normally, fully under control and performing a docking process when it apparently spontaneously ignited. Loss of gas from airships due to leaks and chaffing of the bags containing the hydrogen was an issue for R101's rival R100. The the author Nevil Shute who under his full name Nevil Norway was the Chief Calculator on the project explains it in some detail in his autobiography.
R101's fire was secondary to the aircraft flying into terrain after control difficulties in poor weather.
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There were several survivors from both the R101 and Hindenburg disasters.
The hydrogen did ignite but it needs a source of oxygen to do so. Being lighter than air, the hydrogen went upwards, mixed with air which contains oxygen, and ignited.
The structure of the airship and the passengers and crew are below - hence some survivors instead of total immolation!
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"""
If that mileage range included running all lights and heater, assuming the heater was needed, or aircon, then that would be good enough for most people."""
At least with an ICE the running of the heater is free has the combustion heats the water jacket and it sustains until the journey is over. Also the other electrics are generated by the alternator replenishing the 12v battery. I do not know what the demand on the EVs battery is but it must be quite a lot in winter running the above. The energy coming from the grid.
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My Model 3 is 1 year old today. Since I took delivery I have done 10,100 miles with an efficiency of 234 w/mile. The car has 3 trip meters so I have been able to track efficiency over all time/winter/summer. All of them are roughly around 230-240 w/mile - so pretty much no difference if I have lights /heater/ aircon / heated seats.
Even if it did make a difference, at a cost of £2.50 to charge the 50kWh battery, would I be bothered by a reduction in range? Nope. I'd just plan my charging a little more carefully.
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My Model 3 is 1 year old today. Since I took delivery I have done 10,100 miles with an efficiency of 234 w/mile. The car has 3 trip meters so I have been able to track efficiency over all time/winter/summer. All of them are roughly around 230-240 w/mile - so pretty much no difference if I have lights /heater/ aircon / heated seats.
Even if it did make a difference, at a cost of £2.50 to charge the 50kWh battery, would I be bothered by a reduction in range? Nope. I'd just plan my charging a little more carefully.
You're lucky that currently (pardon the pun) you're only being charged £2.50 to charge it - presumably not at home. The price of electricity as per the price cap is around 19-20p per kWh, which would cost you around £10. I wonder how long the public chargers will be on cheapo rates?
Still vastly cheaper than an equivalent sized ICE car (even taking into account the far lower range), but recouping the extra purachse cost would take that much longer.
I still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation when it seems patently obvious (no offense intended) that 99% of EV buyers can easily afford the unsubsidised cost of purchasing and running them.
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"""still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation when it seems patently obvious (no offense intended) that 99% of EV buyers can easily afford the unsubsidised cost of purchasing and running them.""""
Yes it is a slap in the face to the rest of us. It surely cannot go on much longer?
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"""still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation when it seems patently obvious (no offense intended) that 99% of EV buyers can easily afford the unsubsidised cost of purchasing and running them.""""
Yes it is a slap in the face to the rest of us. It surely cannot go on much longer?
It's required to encourage more EV ownership - how would you encourage more people to buy them?
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"""still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation when it seems patently obvious (no offense intended) that 99% of EV buyers can easily afford the unsubsidised cost of purchasing and running them.""""
Yes it is a slap in the face to the rest of us. It surely cannot go on much longer?
It's required to encourage more EV ownership - how would you encourage more people to buy them?
Apparently there doesn't seem to be a need for that. As a result, prices will come down of their own accord. Or how about just the well-off pay a tax to subsidise...themselves? No, I didn't think that would work either.
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"""still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation when it seems patently obvious (no offense intended) that 99% of EV buyers can easily afford the unsubsidised cost of purchasing and running them.""""
Yes it is a slap in the face to the rest of us. It surely cannot go on much longer?
It's required to encourage more EV ownership - how would you encourage more people to buy them?
Apparently there doesn't seem to be a need for that. As a result, prices will come down of their own accord. Or how about just the well-off pay a tax to subsidise...themselves? No, I didn't think that would work either.
Why do you think there is not a need for it? They are selling what they can make at the moment but would they without the subsidy?
If you were well off would you buy one at full price?
I notice you ignored my question about how you would encourage people purchase them.
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"I still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation..."
To encourage a change in direction of behaviour. Those comparatively well-heeled drivers of new EVs will enable some secondhand ones to become available to those of lower incomes. The same could be said of many subsidies, such as the solar panels that we all pay through via our tariffs; or the Govt's heatpump subsidies. Imprecise methods but probably the best we have?
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"I still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation..."
To encourage a change in direction of behaviour. Those comparatively well-heeled drivers of new EVs will enable some secondhand ones to become available to those of lower incomes. The same could be said of many subsidies, such as the solar panels that we all pay through via our tariffs; or the Govt's heatpump subsidies. Imprecise methods but probably the best we have?
Not really the same, given people on modest incomes still cannot afford EVs - and often they aren't worth it because they physically cannot charge them at home (they live in a flat or terrace house with only non-allocated on-road parking with no way of installing charging facilities).
With solar panels, they can be installed in smaller amounts and the costs are far lower than EVs. Heat pumps have the same problems as EVs, and also need huge changes to homes that aren't well insulated already, if they can be at all. My flat block's lease agreement may well prevent them being installed, as may planning restrictions and safety issues (mainly upper floors). I certainly wouldn't wall all the upper floor flats' outdoor units installed outside my flat - the noise! Nowhere else to put them (we have pitched roofs).
We have similar issues trying to get PV panels installed - we'd have to get permission from the freeholder, who could reasonably expect or demand a large percentage of the revenue from them generating electricty.
A LOT of these green subsidies are designed to benefit the well off when many of these technologies were already being adopted by them (hence why the incentives for PV panels were reduced/ended).
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<< A LOT of these green subsidies are designed to benefit the well off when many of these technologies were already being adopted by them (hence why the incentives for PV panels were reduced/ended). >>
At the time my PV panels were installed 10 years ago we were enticed by a high Feed-in tariff - which we still enjoy. But the purpose was to jump-start the PV installation industry so it could cope with the created demand. We still had to buy the installation up front.
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I still don't understand why both the cars, chargers and electricity (public sites) get subsidies that we ALL have to pay through taxation when it seems patently obvious (no offense intended) that 99% of EV buyers can easily afford the unsubsidised cost of purchasing and running them.
Without the subsidy they are less likely to purchase an EV, if there are no EV's then there won't be any chargers. So the government subsidies them to encourage more sales of EV's which will bring with them a bigger and better charging network.
How would you encourage more people to take up EV's?
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How would you encourage more people to take up EV's?
bring the price of the cars down, I suspect once most have an EV the price of electric will equal petrol/diesel as more use electric, the government will want there cut of fuel tax on it so even though a subsidy will help sell cars (or not) the price will go up the more is used...that is unless people don`t wait for better range cars to be developed which is happening all the time
to some why buy an EV now when they are being improved all the time and second hand are out of date fairly quickly, unless you have plenty of spare cash to throw away
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To some, why buy an EV now when they are being improved all the time and second hand are out of date fairly quickly, unless you have plenty of spare cash to throw away.
There will always be some who prefer to be ahead of the crowd with new tech, especially when encouraged by tax concessions. They are effectively beta-testers for the crowd. Like those who bought Sinclairs or Amstrads back in the day.
I'm not one of those, I wait for the gamma versions to appear, and maybe get a second-hand one ....
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How would you encourage more people to take up EV's?
bring the price of the cars down,
That is what the subsidy does...EVs are going to be expensive at the moment comapred to ICE cars - these are all new cars which require a lot of money invested into new manufactuing and that money needs to recouped by the manufactuerer.
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And the other point is that manufacturers are selling all the EV’s they can get hold of with current supply issues. Market forces are at work.
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All new cars are expensive - most folk drive s/h cars.
There are ~33m cars on UK roads. ~2.4m new cars are sold each year. If a "new" car is defined as less than 3 years old, only ~7.2m cars are "new" (22%).
EV is subsidised to encourage sales - main benefits - no tax/duty on "fuel", and no road tax. A S/H market can only develop following the sale of new vehicles - no surprise that the S/H market is currently very limited, but will look very different in 5 years time!
Observations about rapid technology change rendering older s/h EV quickly obselete is well founded - prices will likely fall as more modern EVs become available.
As the government seem intent on banning ICE in favour of EV, complaining bitterly about recharging, range, battery longevity, cost of new vehicles, driving experience etc is a futile waste of effort.
They are all issues which can be overcome - some barriers are imagined, some need more infrastructure, some are simply a function of elapsed time.
A rather simplistic analogue - but valid nonetheless. Fibre broadband roll out started in 2008. 13 years later - 95% of households are cabled. Major changes in technology and infrastructure can be implemented in short timescales if the will and money is there.
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Yes, that price is at home. Octopus Go tariff gives 4 hours at night at a rate of 5p per kWh. Okay, I can only get around 28kWh during that time, but a theoretical full tank is,still just £2.50.
I'm under no illusions attractive pricing like this will last forever, but I'm making hay whilst the sun shines, so to speak.
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At least with an ICE the running of the heater is free has the combustion heats the water jacket and it sustains until the journey is over. Also the other electrics are generated by the alternator replenishing the 12v battery. I do not know what the demand on the EVs battery is but it must be quite a lot in winter running the above. The energy coming from the grid.
The ICE vehicle heater is only "free" in the sense that it uses waste heat from the engine that would otherwise be discarded. But the waste heat is there because the ICE is not 100% efficient in converting the fuel (which you paid for) into the motion of the vehicle. Likewise extra fuel is used in driving the alternator. The energy coming from the filling station.
Conversely all EVs have regen braking which uses energy otherwise wasted as heat when conventionally braking the vehicle to recharge the battery. The recovered energy provides electricity towards running the electronics/lighting and possibly even helps to heat (or cool) the vehicle.
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""""Conversely all EVs have regen braking which uses energy otherwise wasted as heat when conventionally braking the vehicle to recharge the battery. The recovered energy provides electricity towards running the electronics/lighting and possibly even helps to heat (or cool) the vehicle."""
Yes of course you have to brake but the act of braking is also"" loosing"" the energy that you used to get the speed in the first place > OK you are recovering energy by using the brakes but you do not recover it all.
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OK you are recovering energy by using the brakes but you do not recover it all.
It isn`t actually using the brakes, starting braking starts a motor/generator to use momentum of the car to turn the generator to produce electricity, it is the generator that does the braking rather than the brakes, unless you need to brake harder for a junction, in effect the brakes are only an emergency stop or you need to slow down faster than the generator is able to
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""""As the government seem intent on banning ICE in favour of EV, complaining bitterly about recharging, range, battery longevity, cost of new vehicles, driving experience etc is a futile waste of effort."""
How is it a futile waste of effort. The subsides on offer have been reduced and it is largely company perks that are selling EVs. IF the product was cheaper, gave a reasonable range, had a charging infrastructure that was readily available etc. NO it is all about customer confidence in the produce which is failing to deliver. Having seen Panorama in the week about mining for cobalt in the Congo and the local population scratching a living digging the ore manually from quarries I do not think I would buy an EV on principle. Next door to this operation is the multi-billion conglomerate that is Glencore supplying cobalt to Tesla. Glencore's operation surrounded by a Mexican type wall to keep the locals out. The local nuns who help support the community have resorted to buying some shares in Tesla with a view to attend the shareholders meetings to get the company to help. So far without success!. To their credit Tesla say they are reducing the cobalt they use in their smaller vehicles.
The fact that hybrids will continue to 2035 with ICE and a battery is a bit of an anomoly
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Having seen Panorama in the week about mining for cobalt in the Congo and the local population scratching a living digging the ore manually from quarries I do not think I would buy an EV on principle.
The other day you said you were interested! LOL
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Having seen Panorama in the week about mining for cobalt in the Congo and the local population scratching a living digging the ore manually from quarries I do not think I would buy an EV on principle.
The other day you said you were interested! LOL
Now sitting on the fence with quite a lot of the motoring fraternity! The MINI is a cheeky little thing though
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Having seen Panorama in the week about mining for cobalt in the Congo and the local population scratching a living digging the ore manually from quarries I do not think I would buy an EV on principle.
The other day you said you were interested! LOL
Now sitting on the fence with quite a lot of the motoring fraternity! The MINI is a cheeky little thing though
Tesla make cobalt free batteries and working on new ones to replace the batteries they use on the other cars, which knowing tesla will be fairly quick.
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Whereas cobalt is used to remove sulphur from crude oil. 500grams is used every 80,000 gallons of petrol produced, if the sulphur isn’t removed we get acid rain.
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Whereas cobalt is used to remove sulphur from crude oil. 500grams is used every 80,000 gallons of petrol produced, if the sulphur isn’t removed we get acid rain.
There are several, perhaps many, different grades of crude oil - the level of sulphur varies and not all grades are used for petrol refining.
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