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Good question. I offer these observations - turbos are now reliable, so naturally aspirated ICEs should now be extinct. Following on from this, there is no longer any need for a large engine. Little more than one litre and three or four cylinders is adequate for most cars. Some of these engines are developing a reputation for reliability, some are not. As for power seekers, three litre six cylinder turbo engines now develop as much power as their six litre twelve cylinder predecessors. My personal choice for our recent acquisition to at least match the reliability of our twenty year old Ford 1.6 Zetec engine (still going strong at 150,000 miles on its original 'designed for life' cambelt) is Peugeot's 1.2 puretech 130. I am hopeful that its early cambelt problems have been sorted, and that the Achilles heel of directly injected engines - carbon build up - will not be a problem.
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John F, are you aware the puretech is now on its third generation of cambelt and the fourth generation is, reputedly, a chain? There's at least one manufacturer fitting additional injection in the manifold to 'wash' inlet valves in an attempt to prevent carbon build up.
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Naturally-aspirated petrol engines from Japan and Korea. The engines fitted in pickups like the Toyota and Isuzu seem to clock up huge mileages in places like Australia..
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Toyotas new dynamic force engines cylinder head the direct fuel injectors fire directly over the backs on the inlet valves when there open to help keep them clean.
Toyota have then gone belt & braces & also fitted port injection as well.
As for the PSA Puretech - I've not heard or seen of any permanent cure for the inlet valve carbon fouling issue - a couple of engine ecu software tweaks is all they have come up with so far.
The timing belt debacle has annoyed plenty of people across various Peugeot / Citroen forums.
Mine is technically now due a timing belt replacement ( thanks PSA for reducing the replacement intervals ) next March but it will be gone by then.
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I have every confidence that the simple 1.5 petrol in our Yaris would happily do 150,000 miles with little ongoing maintenance.
Similarly Subaru petrols will happily do 300,000 miles.
Unfortunately we live on a small island and most owners don't do huge mileages, so these mileages aren't that common in the UK and lack of use is worse than heavy use for engines.
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Has there ever been any engines to match the long life of the VW PD , Peugeot XUD , Isuzu Diesel, Zetec ?
Maybe these were the heyday of long lived engines which we may never see again ?
Such a shame the EU banned these amazing pieces of engineering along with the Gardner bus engines .
Even Toyota got it wrong with the VVti over oil consumption but did the honourable thing of extending the warranty.
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The XUD was a phenomenal game-changer, making diesel an option for average car use due to its refinement. Prior to the XUD, diesel was a fairly rough and noisy experience, even the Golf MK1 diesel wasn't too much fun in comparison. It would be interesting to test the emissions of one of these old diesels, probably send the MOT equipment off the scale compared to a modern diesel. XUD would go on almost indefinitely proved it was serviced correctly and the cambelt done on time.
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XUD would go on almost indefinitely provided it was serviced correctly and the cambelt done on time.
IIRC the XUD engine appeared about 1990, thirty years ago. SWMBO or I owned one 205 and a couple of 306s with the turbo version of that engine. It always behaved well but used to benefit from an occasional shot of conditioner.
I suspect that present-day diesel engines might behave similarly if, as suggested, they were serviced correctly. Makers' oil-change intervals have doubled since 30 years ago, probably for the wrong reasons - cost-cutting for fleet buyers, as has been often alleged. As it takes only a few miles' driving for fresh oil to turn black in a diesel engine, asking it to do its job properly for over 10K miles may not help longevity. But fleet owners aren't looking for that.
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“ IIRC the XUD engine appeared about 1990, thirty years ago.”
Think it was 1984. It was certainly in the 205 from the start and the Talbot Horizon in 84 so it might even have been earlier.
Edited by SLO76 on 08/05/2021 at 17:24
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“ IIRC the XUD engine appeared about 1990, thirty years ago.”
Think it was 1984. It was certainly in the 205 from the start and the Talbot Horizon in 84 so it might even have been earlier.
Yes, SLO, I was thinking of the XUDT. Early 205s had the simple XUD in 1984, as you say.
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“ IIRC the XUD engine appeared about 1990, thirty years ago.”
Think it was 1984. It was certainly in the 205 from the start and the Talbot Horizon in 84 so it might even have been earlier.
Yes, SLO, I was thinking of the XUDT. Early 205s had the simple XUD in 1984, as you say.
The BX and 405 had the 1769cc XUD turbo diesel from 88 I believe. A cracking engine it was too.
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“ IIRC the XUD engine appeared about 1990, thirty years ago.”
Think it was 1984. It was certainly in the 205 from the start and the Talbot Horizon in 84 so it might even have been earlier.
Yes, SLO, I was thinking of the XUDT. Early 205s had the simple XUD in 1984, as you say.
I've had a look in my 1991 Motorists' Guide. The diesel Horizon was announced in October 1983, but the revised Pug 305 had a diesel in the previous January. They were both the 1905cc version before the 1769 came a bit later.
No - I don't have all the back issues, only three to give me fixed points for old prices :-(
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A somewhat philosophical view.
Development of new engines, probably since the invention of internal combustion, is at the boundaries of what is then feasible to reduce costs, increase performance, reduce fuel consumption, reduce weight etc.
So all advances in technology typically come initially with increased risks. The 2-4 years post launch reveals longer term problems not identified (or ignored for commercial reasons) on pre launch testing.
The most relaible engines are therefore likely to be those which are 5-6 year old designs still being fitted to new vehicle launches. This would suggest that (a) all the normal early gremlins have been addressed, and (b) the manufacturer has the confdence to fit said unit to current production and expects few warrany claims.
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So how many miles will the motors of the EVs manage?
I'm guessing lack of use is less of an issue, but will they cover 100k or 200k without maintenance?
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Assuming they're brushless, I though think almost indefinitely, unless there are bearings and such to wear out and are not easily replaceable.
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Has there ever been any engines to match the long life of the VW PD , Peugeot XUD , Isuzu Diesel, Zetec ?
Maybe these were the heyday of long lived engines which we may never see again ?
Such a shame the EU banned these amazing pieces of engineering along with the Gardner bus engines .
The unelected EU dictators got many things wrong - probably due to their lack of understanding of technology. Now that we are free of them I dearly hope UK legislation will be changed to allow the sale of engines like the VW PD once again. Maybe we can also dispense with those dreadful DPFs that the Eurocrats forced on us! Damn them!
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<< Maybe we can also dispense with those dreadful DPFs that the Eurocrats forced on us! >>
That won't happen after the public has been informed that 2.5 micron diesel particles cause lung problems in children.
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Has there ever been any engines to match the long life of the VW PD , Peugeot XUD , Isuzu Diesel, Zetec ?
Maybe these were the heyday of long lived engines which we may never see again ?
Such a shame the EU banned these amazing pieces of engineering along with the Gardner bus engines .
The unelected EU dictators got many things wrong - probably due to their lack of understanding of technology. Now that we are free of them I dearly hope UK legislation will be changed to allow the sale of engines like the VW PD once again. Maybe we can also dispense with those dreadful DPFs that the Eurocrats forced on us! Damn them!
Won't happen - British politicians have ambitions to be greener than the EU.
Those "dreadful" DPFs prevent a lot of cancer and other respiratory disease.
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Has there ever been any engines to match the long life of the VW PD , Peugeot XUD , Isuzu Diesel, Zetec ?
Maybe these were the heyday of long lived engines which we may never see again ?
Such a shame the EU banned these amazing pieces of engineering along with the Gardner bus engines .
The unelected EU dictators got many things wrong - probably due to their lack of understanding of technology. Now that we are free of them I dearly hope UK legislation will be changed to allow the sale of engines like the VW PD once again. Maybe we can also dispense with those dreadful DPFs that the Eurocrats forced on us! Damn them!
The UK won't be changing any of those rules - DPFs are needed and will be staying - they do cause some issues but air quality is much better for them and if you cared about the UK you would want them to.
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Has there ever been any engines to match the long life of the VW PD , Peugeot XUD , Isuzu Diesel, Zetec ?
Maybe these were the heyday of long lived engines which we may never see again ?
Such a shame the EU banned these amazing pieces of engineering along with the Gardner bus engines .
The unelected EU dictators got many things wrong - probably due to their lack of understanding of technology. Now that we are free of them I dearly hope UK legislation will be changed to allow the sale of engines like the VW PD once again. Maybe we can also dispense with those dreadful DPFs that the Eurocrats forced on us! Damn them!
Commercial reality:
Half UK cars are imported. Many from the EU
Half cars made in UK are exported to the EU
The EU is a far bigger market than the UK.
So :what the EU says will become UK law.
Commercial reality
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Not sure about the Subaru petrols, Scotty Kilmer seems to bang on about them blowing head gaskets too frequently!
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John F, are you aware the puretech is now on its third generation of cambelt and the fourth generation is, reputedly, a chain? There's at least one manufacturer fitting additional injection in the manifold to 'wash' inlet valves in an attempt to prevent carbon build up.
Yes I am. (Chain engines can be problematic too). It does seem that the size and quality of the cambelt rather than the design was faulty. There don't seem to be any problems with the latest version.
Re carbon build up, I wonder if it might be caused by being in the inappropriate gear? If you put your foot down at a low speed in a high gear, the high torque at low revs acceleration of this engine might make it feel OK, but I can't help wondering whether there would be some incomplete combustion of the sudden increased dose of fuel despite the best efforts of the EMS to ensure a proper air/fuel mixture. I would be interested to know whether engines with a manual gearbox are disproportionately affected. The EAT6 gearbox never allows such labouring, instantly changing down on application of wellie.
Another personal thing - unless our circumstances change dramatically our Peugeot 2008 is unlikely to exceed 6000 miles a year, and as it's such a cracking little performer I was happy to take a certain amount of risk.
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I believe you are correct there John F. I tend to keep in 3rd below 30mph and 4th below 40mph in my 1.0T Astra - about 2,000rpm so well into the 90%+ torque zone for this engine. Not many reports of LSPI for this engine but plenty for the 1.4T.
I was reading an article about LPSI last week (and can't now find it) about the new oils designed for direct injection engines. It's a common issue across manufacturers. The new oils are designed not to deposit themselves on the cylinder bore above the piston. It's these deposits which combust before the piston reaches the top of its travel. Vauxhall are on their third specification in as many years.
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It's a common issue across manufacturers. The new oils are designed not to deposit themselves on the cylinder bore above the piston. It's these deposits which combust before the piston reaches the top of its travel.
Oil changing was also mentioned as the time should be around 5k 6k oil changes, all caused by using piston rings that are not as tight to bore, to reduce friction and assist in making engine free revving
New type oil doesn`t congeal in the oil control rings which was causing severe oil burning, but the new oils will need changing earlier otherwise the benefits will be lost
I also cannot find the article on this, but Toyota are now working (possibly using now) 0w 8 oil for Hybrid engines
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