Hi Sean
I like your post. Spot on, even to the extent of not including me in the "bright" list :)
I suggest that when anyone responds to a request for help, we attach a sentence such as "We would all like to know how you sorted the problem, so we would be grateful for some feedback, we're all still learning"
....or words to that effect.
****Signature? - Ideas on a postcard please anyone!****
Hugo
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Sean
Broadly I agree with you that it's only polite to thank people when they help you out and to report back--it helps others too. But I think you're being a little harsh on lurkers. The way boards like this work is on an ad hoc basis. Really when you take advice from someone on here you have no idea of their level of skill, ability or experience until you've hung around a while (if they tell you they are an engineer from VW with a PhD well that sounds great, but it might not be true). I'm not accusing you of lying but sitting here in front of the screen it's easy to be anyone you like (I'm Juan Pablo Montoya by the way, pleased to meet you). As long as you stay "in character" you can carry it off quite easily: nobody's qualifications are checked out here. Many lurkers find what they want and go away. They don't want to post for whatever reason and the beauty of the Internet is that they can do that. There are plenty of people who do post who will thank you if your advice is good.
One other thing. While it's good that auto company execs look in here I should be a bit wary of making it too obvious. One of the great benefits of this site to me has been in learning from the experience of owners whose cars are way beyond the age when the manufacturer cares what happens. They know what the common faults are after years of hard use and they know of effective techniques, short-cuts and bodges that would horrify a professional engineer. Their experience is valuable. If the site becomes too "professional" many of those people will be scared away or at least discouraged from posting.
So thanks Sean for your contributions and your help but I think you should be more circumspect about playing up your "manufacturer" credentials.
Now, back to testing this pesky Williams. More downforce, Frank!
JPM
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Some very good points from all. I think a thank you for advice given is a very appreciated thing. However one great thing about the internet is that it enables people to share information on most fronts for free rather, and usually the help you give others will return to you when you need assistance. Its nice in a world of greed and corporate robbery to see something that is done for neither profit nor gain. purely for the benefit of each other.
Now HJ writes books and magazine and newspaper columns now doubt for reward. Absolutely fine. But if he wasnt well known then he probably wouldnt get the work of the newspapers and magazines. As such this widens his name and adds to his marketibility (think thats the right spelling?!!) and therefore this adds to his ability to make more income. I'm pretty sure that he doesnt set this up out of the goodness of his heart and the investors dont invest for love. If you look at the weekly best deals advertised and the companies that advertise their cars and new deals and the ads up the side, and also the pop ups i would say there is a good element of income there.
I agree with ChrisR. Allow the beauty of the internet to continue on this site and allow people to make their own choices. Keep it non commercial and retain the unbiased technical advice approach.
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Interesting post sean. I came across the site through reading the Saturday Telegraph, and was inpressed bu HJ's pages in the motoring section.
I used to visit the site just to read the news in the scroll banner to the right, but with a spare couple of minutes one day looked at the backroom and was impressed with what was there. It is really good to have a sensible discussion about many motoring (and other) matters without any of the childish or imbecelic posts on many chatrooms that IMHO spoil the experience.
When I bought my good lady's mondeo I was lucky enough to get an answer to our leaking boot problem from a number of you and posted back with my gratitude. I now when i get a few spare minutes over lunch try and help if i am able to others questions as well as make comments within discussion and think it is excellent. It's also interesting because there are a broad range of us who have different favourite makes and models, makes overall for fairly balanced responses on the whole.
Long may it continue. As I live in Brum I'll try and make the meet if I am able to once the details have been confirmed.
Paul
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A fair point Sean, but perhaps a little strongly put.
Lurkers are welcome.
The majority of members here "lurked" for a fair while before they started contributing. And even if they never contribute directly they add value by following the links and/or telling their friends.
And then there are others who simply do not want to contribute but enjoy reading. Good luck to them.
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Wow! I never realised I was in such exalted company and I bow before your immense encylopeadic knowledge of the automobile. How I ever managed to ever get behind the wheel of a car before I discovered "The Honest John Forum" is way beyond my modest abilities.
Sorry for the tone of the above but methinks some are taking themselves a little bit too seriously. I don't profess to have any idea the number of users that dip in and out of this website but given the Telegraph's circulation, I would imagine it is quite large. To call them lurkers, is insulting. I browse regularly and contribute very occasionally, that I think is the general idea of such forums, sharing knowledge and bucking the system of big business - perhaps.
As I see it the trouble with a lot of forums is they become very clubby or even start to form clique's and this then starts to alienate occasional users.
I have already stopped visiting an MX5 website for the latter as it started to be dominated by one idiot who felt he had the answer to everything and was insulting all and sundry in the process.
The above thread's content is disturbing, in that it is becoming apparent that this forum appears to be going down that road. That would be a shame as it is such a mine of free and useful information and long may it reamin so.
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Some damn good points there Dave E.
Although there are many regular posters on this forum, having a place that appears "cliquey" is the last thing I and imagine most others would want.
Hopefully those who do "lurk" (which I do in other forums - it is my given right as an internet user!) do see that.
If not then we're definitely heading in the wrong direction...
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Dear All,
I would agree that feeding back success (or otherwise) in resolving a query or technical problem is a polite way of saying 'thankyou'. I have received help of various types over the years I have been in the back room (lurking almost since the very start) and made the effort to feed back on a long standing Volvo problem in the archive.
But for the most part, for us lurkers/very occasional posters
it takes either something very close to home in the discussion or something in our direct experience to contribute to the technical forum.While I read HJ most weekdays and regularly check the adverts, I dont have the (work) time to join in as fully as many do.
Contributions also seem to go in phases, often we dont hear from somebody for ages then they reappear....often with a new moniker.
keep up the good work
Dr Ian
(check the 'life outside the backroom' thread for the Dr subject)
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IMHO balance is restored to this thread by Chris R and Mark (RBLS).
One of the great attractions of this site is the diversity of occupations, talents, views etc that the contributors bring to bear on the wealth of motoring subjects, even new threads on oil dredge up new things, and sometimes with ?outside the box? thinking that is a refreshing change.
However, now that we have cornered a Guru, and an engine one at that we can start a wish list?
1.Hence forth it is illegal to design a new engine with a horizontally mounted oil filter at the rear of the engine. I simply don?t care that it cost £2 more to mount it vertically on the front. Just do it please!.
2.You are thinking of using a cambelt in a new design. You are sacked. No questions. (To learn how not to use cam chains, study Honda CB250?s of the mid 70?s)
3.Ancillaries may last 100K, but must be easily replaceable by one person in one hour. Study small jap engines.
Hmmm, this could be an interesting user interface after all.
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"You are thinking of using a cambelt in a new design. You are sacked.."
Seems a bit harsh! Both will need replacing eventually, and I know which I'd rather do. If they're good enough for Ducati...
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>Seems a bit harsh! Both will need replacing eventually, and I know which I'd rather do. If they're good enough for Ducati...
Yes perhaps. Owner with recked engines might agree though.
I dont know that much about Ducati's but isn't their lovely desmo v twin gear driven in the cam dept?. A failure free zone I suspect.
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"isn't their lovely desmo v twin gear driven in the cam dept?"
They used to be, but switched to belts decades ago.
"Both (chain and belt) will need replacing eventually"
Perhaps, but the only time I have personally known of cam chains being changed was at engine rebuild time and even then, it was only because the engine was apart and there was a "Since we have come this far, might as well" feeling in the air.
Granted this was on push-rod V6/V8s, but I still haven't heard of cam chain replacement as part of regular service with any engine.
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"I still haven't heard of cam chain replacement as part of regular service"
I'm not an expert here, but I believe it was necessary on Saab engines at 60-70k to help preserve them. If this was done, they then regularly went on to 300-400k.
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>>it is becoming apparent that this forum appears to be going down that road.
Believe me, it won't. I have the edit button and the waffle scissors. And if they don't work, there is always the idiot axe.
M.
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Sean - no idea how I came to get an name check, other than for an outstanding contribution to the site (the dramatic equivalent of rushing on stage and knocking all the scenery over in one feel swoop I fear!) ;) Cheers anyway, and btw - on the wipers, I'd seen those aerodynically hidden ones, and just thought they were 'posh' lol
Unlike people who lurk and read for ages, I just took the plunge. Perhaps lurking and seeing what's what for a while might have been wiser, but I'd read HJ's column in the DT for such a long time, and often noticed enquiries about cars for young drivers - when that question became a pressing one in my own home, I just waded straight in and asked it again, specifically tailored to our own family requirements. Having gained the much appreciated comments and advice, made a decision etc. decided that this was a great place to be educated and entertained at the same time.
No one ever gave me much of an education regarding cars, and not having had any particular problems so far, I've never had to seek out much information. Getting a daughter on to the road has made me try and rectify this, and make sure that she's equipped with a broader knowledge base than I was at her age. Things picked up from here have sparked discussions at home, and it's good to see the variety of opinions on all kind of motoring related topics.
I like it!
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Please accept my apologies.
I often seem to offend folks.
I am no Guru, clearly.
I just like to know what happens to things. The beauty of the BR is the plethora of people who frequent it and their friendly comments.
Sorry.
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No, I think the core point you made was valid, ie that this site is free at the point of use and so many of us benefit from it, a little feedback is only courtesy. I've tried to provide information wherever I can (mainly limited to the biodiesel thread!) but am the first to admit I have gained much more from this site than the sum of my contributions, especially from "basic" parts of the site such as the Car-By-Car Breakdown. I have never encountered a similarly comprehensive resource dedicated to cars over 3 years old, something I can usually only access by paying for Used Car Buyer magazine.
I like the idea that people would at least give some feedback as to the outcome of a query. I also like the suggestion made by A Dent regarding a wish list - hear hear!
andymc
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but am the first to admit I have gained much more from this site than the sum of my contributions
I think that this hits the nail firmly on the head as to why this site is so enjoyable. I suspect that andy's comment holds true for nearly all contributors no matter how technically astute they may happen to be. Its a "division of labour" thing that I learnt in A-level economics once upon a time...
As for me, I am guilty as charged, have reaped more from this site than I have sown and have not been explicitly thankful every time. So apologies for that and thanks, because this site blows away many of the myths of car ownership that have foxed me for so long. It also means - as someone who has often been diddled by hookey mechanics in the past - that I can be more confident when dealing with the motor trade which is the second most costly aspect of my life.
Splodgeface
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"I just like to know what happens to things."
I wholly agree with that. FWIW, I do always try to thank anyone who has supplied me with useful information. As an occasional regular (if that makes sense) I do sometimes forget which threads I have posted in, and my only real gripe about the forum software is that there isn't a quick way to locate them. Icing on the cake, I grant you, but an 'own comments' button might encourage feedback.
As I'm here, I should like to add my appreciation for HJ's efforts in keeping this going. It is a veritable mine of useful information and talent, and if the Telegraph management are listening, HJ is why I buy your paper on a Saturday!
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>>if the Telegraph management are listening, HJ is why I buy your paper on a Saturday!
Reading, surely JBJ ;-)!
But I agree entirely. The sole reason that I buy the ST is for HJ's page in the motoring section. That and the property section so I can dream how to spend my squillions!
I agree with Sean totally (and how nice to be labelled 'bright' for a change!). And the person who mentioned the PayPal idea has hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head - providing that PayPal themselves don't charge a fortune for HJ to get at the many millions of pounds that we will be sending his way!
Cheers
Rob
"Lord of Lard"
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"Reading, surely.."
I did write that originally, Rob, but then I thought that the Telegraph big cheeses are probably so exalted that they have people to surf the web for them (and then read out the interesting bits)... :-)
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" it's easy to be anyone you like "
Says ChrisR, signing himself JPM!
JBJ - I know, but at least I'm entirely fictional...
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