Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
After a bit of a debate with my grandmother(!!) I have to ask you out there who you think are the worst drivers - the old or the young?

This may create a view arguements but thats the essence of debate isnt it!

Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Altea Ego
One group of people know the answer. The insurance companies. They then communicate this knowledge in the form of premiums. Who pays the most? The young.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Roger Jones
I see lousy driving in all age groups every day. There are careful young drivers about and it's a damned shame that they can't get lower premiums. Is there not a scheme that enables them to get further training and a qualification that lowers premiums? If not, there really ought to be and I would have thought that it would be in the best interests of the insurance industry to run it, with perhaps several grades of qualification.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - peterb
Is there not a scheme that
enables them to get further training?


I fear that training alone will not solve the problem.

Training *will* improve skills. But it will *not* deal with the behavioural/attitude issues that are often the major problem.

Sadly, too many young drivers are already overconfident. It's interesting to ponder whether or not more training would close the gap between self belief and reality.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Sorry - you're wrong.

Its historically thought to be the case (i.e the general view)that young people pay more, and in a lot of cases they do - but not all.

If you look at the premium rates for over 70's they can be very expensive.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Altea Ego
Sorry - you're wrong.
Its historically thought to be the case (i.e the general view)that
young people pay more, and in a lot of cases they
do - but not all.
If you look at the premium rates for over 70's they
can be very expensive.


Direct line, Same details for car location - no NCB

age 20 £2,397
age 70 £555
age 79 £909

wont insure past age 80
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
What car is this for? This is a little unspecific to be taken as gospel.

Also some companies offer better rates for younger drivers (and older drivers - given) than others. Direct Line certainly arent one of them.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Altea Ego
How much more specific do you need? New Laguna 1.9d. all details (car, address, no NCB) for all quotes exactly the same. All that changed was the date of birth.

Of course i could disprove the above quotes for going to a broker who specialises in young drivers, ditto the same for one who specialises in older drivers. Either way, the facts speak for themselves

Direct Line think younger drivers are more of a risk *FACT*
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Well it makes a difference because if knew about insurance then you would know that they not only having groups, but also categorys. For instance a group 10 car can be category 5 which is bad for a young driver but makes no difference to someone age 40.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Altea Ego
Well it makes a difference because if knew about insurance then
you would know that they not only having groups, but also
categorys. For instance a group 10 car can be category 5
which is bad for a young driver but makes no difference
to someone age 40.



Ok How about Direct Line quote for
Renault clio, 1.2 grande, Low group, low risk
age 20 £1578
age 70 £429

This is about statistical analysis and risk, things insurance companies take great care about (which of course you know).

FACT Direct line consider younger drivers to be a greater risk FACT

Keep digging that hole
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Dan J
Hmm....

There seems to be a large percentage of the under 21s who seem to take reckless risks and put their, their passengers and others lives in danger. In their case, they are making conscious decisions to skip red lights, to speed, to make dangerous and stupid manoeuvres. I was never one of the "Kev" parade (as twas referred to a few years back) but I have done things in cars I am thoroughly ashamed of when younger that I would never even contemplate now.

With old people (and I am talking very old here) I see two common problems. Firstly, it never ceases to amaze me how many old people will simply not, under any circumstances, give way to other people. I have seen it happen on narrow roads with parked cars when it wasn't their right of way and I have seen it at roadworks or junctions where they will refuse to let people in. Had some near misses myself and have sat their stunned when they start screaming at you! Secondly, and definitely more worrying, it's similar to the "young person" problems but for a different reason. Dangerous and stupid manoeuvres - classic examples I have seen being arriving at a give way junction and not stopping til the car is half in the oncoming traffic. Changing lines on dual carriageways without indicating or acknowledging other traffic. Driving at 15mph (one lovely day through miles of non-overtakeable Essex countryside) for miles on end. Reversing out of parking spaces in supermarket car parks with the engine at 7000rpm and using the clutch (wait til that frail old leg slips off one day...).

Still, I could give you twenty odd pages of the idiotic driving I see from all walks of life. Accidentally and very occasionally these days on purpose I have even been a contributor.

I also know a 17 year old who drives with perfection and an old chap whose driving technique would put most of us to shame.

What I am trying to say is that I really don't think you can generalise who are the worst drivers. The sad fact of the matter is that year by year we seem to have noticeably more and more of them...

Get debating :)
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
I'd have to go old people. I live in bournemouth - full of old people. And their driving standard is dire. The amount of cars you see them driving with dents, dings, scratches etc is unbelievable.

Also they are terrible parkers. I really find them the most frustrating drivers.

Most young drivers drive quickly which means they never get in your way and are long gone so they dont create frustration. They do however drive round with their stereo's up and the windows open - but thats just uncool!

Old people tend to have cheaper insurance because have built up NCB, but statiscally they have more minor claims than young people (having worked for an insurance company gives you access to lots of interesting stats!) and more claims involving themselves and one other party, whereas young people just seem to damage themselves.

You will also find that there are a higher premium percentage rises with getting older (over 75) than there are premium percentage drop with an 18 year old getting older.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Clanger
When I was a youth, I thought all older drivers were a menace. Now I am 50 (ish), I think many young drivers are a blessed nuisance.

Truth is, all other drivers are potential hazards. Statistically young drivers cost their insurers more, but weighing that up when you are experiencing a bad driving moment is a waste of time. I have had trouble caused by all age groups and both sexes in various classes of vehicle. Not to mention the grinding teeth and white knuckles that I've caused ...

And another thing, it's pointless trying to apportion blame when you are sitting in a wrecked car in a cloud of steam at the end of some epic skid marks with a bruise from the seat belt on your hip. You still have to sort out the insurance, cope with the inconvenience and get a lift home. And that's without causing death or injury. Better to avoid the other car in the first place.
H.
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - HF
As has been said, it's not good to generalise, but I will anyway.

From my own observations, the two types of driver most likely to choose to drive as though they are the only vehicle on the road are young females and older males.

Of course, there are also the very elderly drivers of both sexes who really DO seem unaware that they are not the only vehicle on the road.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - matt35 {P}
Phoenicks,
From IAM Press Release;
"Drivers who are under 26 account for 12% of the motoring public but are involved in 27% of accidents".
At present, the Chelmsford IAM Group is waiving the £35 fee and the IAM are reducing by £10 for under 26 drivers - total cost down from £85 to £40 - this includes the books 'Pass Your Advanced Driving Test' 'The Highway Code' and 'Know Your Traffic Signs' saving a further £11-98.
The IAM also have an insurance service which has reduced my costs in each of the last two years.
Matt35.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Perhaps its just my insurance company that had old people trouble....!

Who's creating the other 73%?
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Perhaps i should have titled this 'Most Annoying drivers - Old or Young?!!!
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - frostbite
Mums on the school run seem to be in a class (or world!) of their own.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - jonesy127 {P}
Surely the worst drivers are lorry drivers on motorways?!
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - DavidHM
Jonesy, I hate to say it but if they were the worst drivers, they would be unlikely to have either jobs or licences. I appreciate that it's annoying when a truck pulls out when you're close by, or overtakes at 56mph in lane 2 when the inside is doing 55, but I don't think that either of those counts as particularly stupid or oblivious.

As for whether old or young are the better driver? I think it's clear that an average young driver will cause more harm than an older one, based on repair costs. But women have more accidents than men, but pay lower premiums, because when men screw up, they do so royally, whereas women typically just take out one or two panels. I guess the same may be true of young vs. old drivers.

Of course, really it depends on the individual. My father is 77 and his observation and car control, though no longer as stunningly good as they were when he was a mere 70, are still better than those of many of my friends, who are my age (25). I doubt he could do heel and toe braking on the entrance to Reading Services any more either...
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - smokie
"Who's creating the other 73%?"

The other 88%. Whichever way you look at that statistic the young seem to be more at fault.

Lorries on motorways - I can't remember the last time they caused me a problem. I'd sooner see them on motorways than trunk roads! Lane hogs on motorways, which are a greater concern, come in all ages, sexes and marques.

IMHO even if the stats showed equal "blame" to old and young, the causes are the differentiator. Young drivers make mistakes mainly due to inexperience and poor judgement. Old drivers (I mean OLD, not middle aged) seem to lose awareness.

btw middle aged drivers are generally perfect.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Baskerville
The problem is these statistics only account for insurance claims. At a guess, from watching my own parents and their friends I'd say older drivers probably have more accidents mile for mile than people in their twenties/thirties but they are minor dings; they also tend to have more ready cash so will pay to have the car fixed if the damage is minor. Young drivers tend to crash big when they crash, which is why the insurance companies don't like them.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - DavidHM
If anything, I'd say an older person (70+) is less likely to have ready cash (or at least ready credit limit) and more likely to make a claim because

a. all their money was turned into a fixed income annuity when they retired
b. they are less likely to be able or willing to borrow large sums
c. they have been with the same insurance company since 1955, have protected NCB or simply don't realise how their premium is calculated and how much extra they could stand to pay if the claim goes through
d. the base line premium for them is so much lower so they will lose less if they do claim than someone 50 or 60 years younger
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Being an IFA and reviewing many 'older people' they most definitely do have lots of ready cash. Certainly more than most people under 35.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Maz
This could never be settled. I don't believe that the number of crashes dictates whether you're a good or bad driver, as that makes my mum better than Michael Schumaker.

Judging by Britain's Worst Driver, old women and young men are probably to be avoided if possible.

I'm going to go for old being worst, if only because Phoenicks' Nan has probably fallen asleep by now...

Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
totally agree - my point entirely.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Maz
Who are you agreeing with? If it's me Phoenicks, how did you agree before I'd posted. Am I that predictable , or are you an IFA with special powers?
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Yeah i agree with you but my agreement wa specifically to another post. It think there must be somethin wrong with the BR because when you 'reply to this message' it isnt slotting the reply in below the one you try and reply to.

Good answer tho. And yes i do believe she has indeed fallen asleep. Oh no. i'm wrong. she's now woken up as its time for her tablets.... ;)
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Dynamic Dave
somethin wrong with the BR because when you 'reply to this
message' it isnt slotting the reply in below the one you try
and reply to.


It does if you change the view option from "Flat" to "Threaded"
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
Yeah i agree with you but my agreement wa specifically to another post. It think there must be somethin wrong with the BR because when you 'reply to this message' it isnt slotting the reply in below the one you try and reply to.

Good answer tho. And yes i do believe she has indeed fallen asleep. Oh no. i'm wrong. she's now woken up as its time for her tablets.... ;)
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
btw middle aged drivers are generally perfect.


not on a motorbike!
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - RichardW
The worst drivers are either
a) Those who think their driving is the best and beyond reproach, and never sit back and consider if they could have done it better - typically they are youn,g but can be any age.
b) Those whos faculties (eyesight, reactions, mobility etc) are below what's needed in today's traffic - typically they are older, but can be any age.

The best drivers are those that know their driving is not perfect and can be improved upon, and take it upon themselves to seek further guidance, and to critically evaluate their standards every time they drive. No typical age.

Unfortunately, the insurance company have to use a broad brush, and age is strongest correlation against risk, so we get bundled with a bunch of people we do or don't belong with.

I hope I have the sense to do something about it I fall back into a), or get, for whatever reason (age or otherwise) to b).


RichardW

Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - leatherpatches
Worst drivers: young and inexperienced.

Most ANNOYING drivers: most certainly doddery elderly folks. By this I mean any man over 50 and any woman over 35. Piddling along at 20mph under the posted speed limit, taking 3.5 years to turn into garden centres and shaking their wrinkly old fists at me and trying to speed up when I overtake quite safely.

Retest at 50, 55, 60, 65, 68, 70, 72 then every year thereafter.

Oh, and remove the license of any upper-end-middle-aged people carrier driver who insists on driving in the overtaking lane when the inner lane is clear.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - NorthernKev {P}
I think young drivers are worse, even though I am 19. However this does not mean everyone else are saints at driving.

Generally, young people are bad, middle aged people tailgate [think reps] and old people drive without regard for others.

From observation and my own actions, young people do drive to fast, we tend to feel we have to prove ourselves to others, some by speedy driving, some by being able to move their car purely by its sound system, and some by both methods.
Middle aged drivers tend to prove themselves by their car, I have been given a brand new BMW, outofmyway peasents!
Old people having done their proving, stick two fingers up to everyone and drive at their pace, whether it's 30 in a 50 or 50 in a 30.

Kev
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - flatfour
I'm not a perfect driver, i get through 50 000 miles a year and the only way i've found to survive is to be calm, nomatter what the idiot infront is doing, just be courtious, laugh and carry on.
I see lots of drivers young and old doing signs, shouting abuse at others only to put themselves into a far more dangerous situation than they ever need to be.
So the next time you overtake a middlelaner don't do as the driver i saw a couple of days ago, jesticulate and then crash into the central reservation.
Laugh at everone else and just get there safely folks.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - matt35 {P}
Leatherpatches,
Have you tried Preparation H?
'Re test at 50.55,60,65,68,70,72 then every year thereafter'.
I don't know the age of John Lyon of the High Performance Course but he showed me (62) how to drive mine at 120 at Millbrook... I think that John maybe around my age and has forgotten more about driving that I will ever learn.
Please don't make the mistake of classifying drivers by age - I have had a 72 year old who was a great driver and am currently working with an 18 year old in a battered Astra who is interested in advanced driving - in case you don't know - we are unpaid in the IAM.
Just off to the garden center now,
Matt35.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - leatherpatches
Yes, but matt35, you are making specific and unique reference to individuals to support your case.

Me, I'm making vague, unsupported and wideranging generalisations to support mine. Therefore, I'm right. :)
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Obsolete
I think it is unquestionable that statistically speaking very young drivers are the ones that have the most accidents. Part of the reason is because IIRC the probability of having an accident in the 2 years following gaining a licence is high. If we assume that a significant number of learners are in their late teens, then it is hardly surprising that a large number of young peple are involved in accidents.

However there is more to it than that. I passed my test at age 35, and Direct Line insured me as a new driver assuming 3 years NCB. Statistically I was likely to have calmed down. And indeed I did not perform handbrake turns in the local supermarket car park to impress some drop dead gorgeous bint.

Older people have slower reactions but they have years of experience that they can use to improve their safety margins. That is why older, but not very old, drivers are very safe. Course, the old boy who pootles along at 40 in a 60 and a 30, and sits in lane 2 of the M4 is a menace.

I think some insurers give greatly reduced premiums for old people if they take a regular medical and/or eye test?
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - none
As a mechanic for a van and truck rental company I see all sorts of accident damage caused by all sorts of different people.
As a general observation.
Minor scrapes and scratches - usually women drivers of any age.
Major damage - usually young males involved in accident where the other driver was at fault.
No damage - usually middle aged males.
I must say that since the 7.5t licence restrictions came into effect (new, young drivers prohibited) damage to these vehicles is minimal.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - hootie
It's just plain daft to make sweeping generalisations. Maybe the awful oldies were never any better? maybe the yuung 'hooligans' behind the wheel will become middle aged and elderly hooligans? who knows.

Meanwhile:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3084177.stm

"Appearances can be Deceptive"
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Phoenicks
It's just plain daft to make sweeping generalisations.


- Dont we do this with everything? People, makes and models of cars, places to go etc. Most observations that are general are made up of what most people find commonly happens.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Hugo {P}
I find that some (not all) young male drivers seem to use our local 20 MPH zone as a race track, are arrogent and a bit flash.

This is not a trait I would associate with older drivers (male or female).

Young female drivers on the other hand tend to be much more methodical and considerate(except the ones that have had testosterone injections!). I wonder of this is because they see their cars as precious pet puppies or kittens and young males see their cars as weapons/extensions of various types?

Middle aged (40 plus) male drivers on the whole tend to be more careful, but I do notice a trend of middle aged women drivers becoming agressive (only a monority but growing).

Older 55 to 70 males can be more beligerent ("I built this country to what it is today and you owe me" mentality creeps in here - so what, we have a perfectly good highway code, which you probably wrote - so obey it!

The same age group of females fall into three main categories;

1) Complete wrecks, who really should not be behind the wheel, 25mph on a country lane with 2 to 3 people behind them and an even older (Female) passenger saying "Never mind them behind you Edna you just ignore them, they can wait until you have finished with the middle of the road" These are obvious by the head of white hair barely visable through the drivers side head restraint and similar belonging to passenger, who is often shorter. They often drive Nissan Micras or od Fiestas, These cars will be collectors items in years to come because they will have about 1500 miles on the clock yet will have had a better life that some animals.

2) Confident and able drivers - usually but not always professional types

3) Complete maniacs who haven't yet realised that their volvo 740 is a step above that little Austin 1100 that they passed their test in 30 years ago. Yet they have all the (wrong) answers when someone else is driving.

Ahhh - I feel much better now - thanks

H
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - jeds
Younger drivers attracting bigger insurance premiums has nothing to do with them being worse drivers. Just like women attracting lower premiums has nothing to do with women being better drivers.

Younger drivers who do have accidents tend to have bigger ones which cost more to repair - Insurance companies cover this by adding to the premiums of all younger drivers. Women have many more accidents than any other group but they tend to be much smaller and less costly.

The fact is that the spread is about even. There are good and bad women drivers, good and bad younger drivers, older drivers and so on.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Danxxx
In my experience:

Older drivers tend to go really slow - how many times have you been stuck behind a car that's doing 30mph in a 60 zone? I was behind one yesterday - mounted the pavement when he turned off as well. Sure enough, it was an older driver. Surely the older you are, the slower your reactions are and therefore they drive more cautiously? In my opinion, drivers that drive this slow are just as bad as the other category which seem to think speed limits don't apply to them - Younger drivers. Younger drivers tend to drive faster. I'm sure everyone here can admit to speeding but doing 120mph down a motorway is just stupid.

Obviously here I am generalising. Of course not all old people are lane hoggers, neither do all younger people brake speed limits - I'm just saying that in general I find this to be the case.
Worst Drivers - Old or Young? - Hawesy1982
As a young driver (20), i agree that people in my age group have more accidents than people aged 30-50, however i'd be interested to see the correlation between miles driven and accidents had for the different age groups. It wouldn't surprise me if older drivers come out bottom then.

Anyone able to provide this data?
 

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