Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - kitkats

I'm looking to replace my 03 Fabia with something to last me for another 8-10 years. I'll be buying cash and probably used. I've been looking at ICE models like the Ateca, CX-5 and others but I don't feel great about the thought of investing in another 10 years worth of emissions.

So, looking around it would seem my best EV alternative right now would probably be a BMW i3 Rex (yes, emissions, I know… but probably 85% of my journeys will be short enough to be all electric). Something like this:

usedcars.bmw.co.uk/vehicle/202009023203156?quotere...7

But I'm wondering how long I'd have to wait for other, better options to come up. Things like the ID3, Soul EV or E-Niro look great but it would seem like I'd be waiting at least 3 years (?) until used examples dip within my budget. The Dacia Spring might be an option but again… a long wait.

I don't think I'd fit inside a Leaf and the Zoe doesn't seem as attractive as the i3.

So am I right in thinking there isn't really any point in waiting for a year or two… the market for EV's under 15k won't look substantially different then than it does now?

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - S40 Man

For but the same price as the i3 you linked to you could get a similar age Merc B class. The Auto car review I saw c was 4¹/² *out of 5*

Whatever that is the worth - maybe check that out. Bigger and classier than Nissan.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - focussed

Don't forget to budget for at least one replacement battery pack, possibly two if you are going to keep it for ten years.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - SkodaIan

Looking on Autotrader, there's many more cars just outside budget rather than just inside it, so waiting a year or so would bring up more options including a lot of cars with far more usable ranges. If the OP is planning to keep it long term, a car with a 300 mile range that detiorates to 200 miles over time as the battery degrades is a much better proposition than one with a 120 mile range that only does 80 miles on a good day as it gets older.

The Fabia won't be worth much, so if it still works why not hold onto the Fabia for another couple of years to get a much wider choice (or if the Fabia is really on its way out, buy something slightly newer as a stop-gap)?

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - kitkats

Yeah maybe I should consider waiting a couple of years for a cheaper e-golf. I don’t know if the older Soul really offers much better range than the i3 Rex.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - Engineer Andy

Looking on Autotrader, there's many more cars just outside budget rather than just inside it, so waiting a year or so would bring up more options including a lot of cars with far more usable ranges. If the OP is planning to keep it long term, a car with a 300 mile range that detiorates to 200 miles over time as the battery degrades is a much better proposition than one with a 120 mile range that only does 80 miles on a good day as it gets older.

The Fabia won't be worth much, so if it still works why not hold onto the Fabia for another couple of years to get a much wider choice (or if the Fabia is really on its way out, buy something slightly newer as a stop-gap)?

Bear in mind that those ranges you quote are best case scenarios in warmer (not hot) weather. In the depths of winter, the range of EVs drops considerably. That still might be fine, but that and the availability of charging points to fit in with that needs to be factored in as much as the potential replacement of said battery pack, which won't be cheap.

At least a PHEV/range-extender version or hybrid has another motvie system and 'fuel' in case the EV battery dies/fails.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - RT

Don't forget to budget for at least one replacement battery pack, possibly two if you are going to keep it for ten years.

Where have you got that statistic from?

EV battery failure rate is less than expectations, probably about the same as engine failure rate in IC cars.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - kiss (keep it simple)

And if you buy a car with DSG transmission do you budget for 2 of those?

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - kiss (keep it simple)

And if you buy a car with DSG transmission do you budget for 2 of those?

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - focussed

Don't forget to budget for at least one replacement battery pack, possibly two if you are going to keep it for ten years.

Where have you got that statistic from?

EV battery failure rate is less than expectations, probably about the same as engine failure rate in IC cars.

EV car manufacturers seem to warrant the batteries for about 8 years, so if you keep the car ten years you can reckon on at least one replacement battery in that time on your pocket - £5-£6K Kerching!

And I have never had any vehicle's IC engine fail requiring replacement within 8 years-where did you get that statistic from?

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - RT

Don't forget to budget for at least one replacement battery pack, possibly two if you are going to keep it for ten years.

Where have you got that statistic from?

EV battery failure rate is less than expectations, probably about the same as engine failure rate in IC cars.

EV car manufacturers seem to warrant the batteries for about 8 years, so if you keep the car ten years you can reckon on at least one replacement battery in that time on your pocket - £5-£6K Kerching!

And I have never had any vehicle's IC engine fail requiring replacement within 8 years-where did you get that statistic from?

Neither IC engines nor EV batteries fail within 8 years on average.

Manufacturers have replaced very few batteries under warranty, the average failure age is way more than 8 years.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - kitkats

Thanks. Ugly thing to my eyes but not as bad as the leaf. I don’t love the i3’s looks but at least they went all in on the aesthetic.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - Avant

"....probably 85% of my journeys will be short enough to be all electric."

What you get next depends to some extent on how long the 15% of journeys are. For your budget, the available battery EVs have a limited range. A BMW i3 Rex might suit you: an alternative could be a Toyota Auris hybrid (if you can fit into it! - are you very tall?) - you'd probably get a newer one than you would a BMW, and it'll last you longer.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - madf

BMW I3? I read forums.

Early ones bad. unreliable electronics. Not charging issues (!!!)

Buy a late one with a good warranty from A BMW dealer ONLY.

Cheap ones could cost £1000s to fix. (electronics and BMW have a sad history) Often dealer only so they will charge two arms and a log. (log because you will be cut off at the legs)

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - kitkats

Thanks. Hadn’t heard anything bad about the i3 yet but I’ll look deeper. The one I linked to, 2017 94ah would probably be about the best I could do from used approved. I am 6’ 2" so dunno if I’ll fit in an Auris. I don’t fit in a Prius.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - madf

Prius batteries eventually fail.(at around 12 years)

But as Japan scraps cars after 3-4 years there are replacement battery packs available on Ebay for under £1200...Used but refurbed.

A bargain if you need one.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - mcb100
Where does that data come from? If the car goes to a Toyota dealership for a battery health check once a year it will be under warranty for 15 years.
Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - FP

"Prius batteries eventually fail."

I'm sure I've said this before, but my trusted indie says most Prius battery "failures" are not complete failures - just the failure of one or two cells, which apparently can be swapped out - presumably at a cost of less than £1200.

But no doubt there comes a point where a lot of cells start to fail together.

Edited by FP on 05/11/2020 at 23:24

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - mcb100
Ignore doom mongers with tales of replacement batteries needed. The pack will outlive the rest of the car.
Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - madf
Ignore doom mongers with tales of replacement batteries needed. The pack will outlive the rest of the car.

SO lots of UTube videos on how to diy are fake?

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=replace+prius...y

:-)

Edited by madf on 06/11/2020 at 08:33

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - mcb100

If YouTube is your primary source, then research is needed elsewhere.

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=flat+earth+pr...f

As of April this year, Toyota had sold 15 million hybrids globally. There will, obviously, be cars that need battery packs changing, and people will make videos about how to do it.

Edited by mcb100 on 06/11/2020 at 08:56

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - John F

I do not understand why EVs, e.g. Nissan Leaf, are still so much more expensive than ICE vehicles. Electric motors are not expensive and the cost of batteries should be dropping exponentially like solar panels did. The Leaf has been around for ten years now, yet the price is much the same as when it was first invented, well over £10K more than an equivalent nonEV. In 1910 the Model T Ford was $900 but by 1920 the price had fallen to less than $400 (Wikipedia). Admittedly much of this was increased production efficiency, but even so....

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - RT

I do not understand why EVs, e.g. Nissan Leaf, are still so much more expensive than ICE vehicles. Electric motors are not expensive and the cost of batteries should be dropping exponentially like solar panels did. The Leaf has been around for ten years now, yet the price is much the same as when it was first invented, well over £10K more than an equivalent nonEV. In 1910 the Model T Ford was $900 but by 1920 the price had fallen to less than $400 (Wikipedia). Admittedly much of this was increased production efficiency, but even so....

Like all things to do with cars, and many other products, pricing is dependent on customer demand not cost of production - EV advocates claim that the total cost of running an EV is lower than an IC car because the fuel/power cost is less, so the manufacturers can increase the purchase price.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - badbusdriver

I do not understand why EVs, e.g. Nissan Leaf, are still so much more expensive than ICE vehicles. Electric motors are not expensive and the cost of batteries should be dropping exponentially like solar panels did. The Leaf has been around for ten years now, yet the price is much the same as when it was first invented, well over £10K more than an equivalent nonEV. In 1910 the Model T Ford was $900 but by 1920 the price had fallen to less than $400 (Wikipedia). Admittedly much of this was increased production efficiency, but even so....

Simple, if people will pay X amount of money for a Leaf, Nissan are not going to reduce the price due to it actually being cheaper to make them now. Why would they?, that would mean less profit!. As for rivals, pretty much the same, they look at how much money Nissan can get away with charging, that folk will pay, and charge a similar amount.

If what you say is correct, probably the only way to get manufacturers to bring the price down inline with what they cost to make would be some highly publicised report documenting how much profit is being made (relative to an ICE car). Even then, not sure that would make much difference given how few people choose to actually buy a car, rather than ‘renting’ one for two or three years at huge cost. I’m thinking of the recent post regarding someone looking for a replacement for a double cab pickup, someone apparently willing to pay up to £600 per month, plus VAT (£720).

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - barney100

I reckon electric cars are like the early computers. I paid £2000 for a computer back in the day and compared to today a cheap laptop for £250 is so much better. EVs will probably follow the same trend. When they get 250 miles guaranteed range in all conditions and the batteries last with full capacity then I'd be interested.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - Andrew-T

EVs will probably follow the same trend. When they get 250 miles guaranteed range in all conditions and the batteries last with full capacity then I'd be interested.

Of course they will, but there will be practical limits. Fifty or more years ago small cars could get 40+mpg touring, and while great advances have been made with ignition systems, and the cars are probably twice as heavy, petrol consumption has not improved hugely. The cost of new EVs must drop as infrastructure makes them a more attractive proposition, but I would be surprised to see a large increase in range without a sudden advance in battery technology.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - Avant

I think it's mainly a matter of economies of scale. I read somewhere recently that EVs are not particularly profitble for manufacturers - yet. Barney's £250 laptop is possible - and no doubt prodices at a profit - because there are so many more being prodiced and sold than when a computer cost £2,000.

The take-up of EVs will increase gradually alongside the too-gradual increase in charging points (one would hope in parallel or there will be a lot of queues at service areas). The breakthrough will come if and when a wireless method is found of charging EVs parked on urban streets.

If I lived in a town and had to park on the street, I'd have a Toyota hybrid.

Affordable (sub-15k) EV's - what and when - Terry W

Sometimes it is helpful to look at some reasonable quality research undertaken by Which magazine - usually fairly objective in their analysis.

From 1000 owners of EVs just 3% needed a full battery replacement. Cars up to three years old retained 98% of their original range, although at 8 years old this had fallen to 92%.

If anything it may be fair to say that EVs are likely to be far less risky a prospect than ICE. What is clear is that tales of routine multi - £xxx battery failures are ill founded.

Battery prices which were ~ £800 per KWH have fallen to ~ £100-120 today. The weight has also fallen making it feasible for EV manufacturers to:

  • more than double the typical vehicle range,
  • make prices increasingly competitive with ICE (up front costs not there yet)
 

Value my car