1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

12 mm Allen key with two steel tube extensions gets aftermarket wheel nuts off without quite breaking, though it felt pretty close.

The studs have white stuff l(ooks like paint or TIPPEX) on the portion of thread not covered by the nuts. THINK I've seem something similar on you tube videos.

Anyone know what it is? I'm guessing some kind of anti-seize approved for wheel studs.

I put grease and polythene on the studs (so they should come off easier next time. ), with sunflower oil and aluminium on the disk boss and rim to inhibit re-rusting.,

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Oli rag
I have seen some machine screws/ bolts with what looked like sprayed on ptfe thread tape. There are also some which appeared to have a threadlock type substance on them , but not sure if I’m right in either case.

Never seen anything on wheel bolts, as they are supposed to be dry torqued, although like you I have lubed mine for the past 40 years and never had a problem.
1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - sammy1

You used to see this on wheel studs on cars in the 50s and 60s and older, must be some sort of anti seize grease but I never seen it being applied. It was on most of my cars in the 60s when cars were DIY and you rarely had to visited a garage workshop but always seemed to have the wheels off some something or another!

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - sammy1

You used to see this on wheel studs on cars in the 50s and 60s and older, must be some sort of anti seize grease but I never seen it being applied. It was on most of my cars in the 60s when cars were DIY and you rarely had to visited a garage workshop but always seemed to have the wheels off for something or another!

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Bolt

You used to see this on wheel studs on cars in the 50s and 60s and older, must be some sort of anti seize grease but I never seen it being applied. It was on most of my cars in the 60s when cars were DIY and you rarely had to visited a garage workshop but always seemed to have the wheels off for something or another!

Vauxhall used to apply a rust inhibitor on the wheel studs in the early 70s as there were problems during PDI where rust had bonded the Nuts to the studs, never happened after that.

but some cars were kept in flooded fields before selling so that might have been the main reason, similar to Fords in the late 80s

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

AND Crusty Stuff ON Sills

Freeing up the wheels is the first time I've seen much under the Honda. While generally in good condition by my standards, there are a couple of crusty bits by the rear jacking points. In the UK I'd guess that'd be an MOT fail.

I don't think I've ever used the designed jacking points on any vehicle I've owned. They generally seem wimpy as built, and seem to corrode early, either because protection gets damaged by jack use, or because they are rot traps

I got my Lada through a few MOT's with the jacking points internally reinforced with a ferrocement armature, but here there is no need for such subterfuge.

I used the beer can disk to grind away the crumble, producing a couple of 4-inch-ish holes, natures way of providing drainage the designer forgot.

I rust treated it with sunflower oil syringed into the hole through a bendy straw . Hopefully this'll drain back and soak in.

The Honda has cosmetic (?) plastic sill covers, a really bad idea that I havn't seen before.

I wonder what lies beneath.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - dadbif
Once upon a time manufacturers used to put a dab of paint on torque tightened fasteners to indicate that they had been tightened.
I recall a wheel gun that did all wheel nuts/studs at the same time and applied a dab of paint as well.
1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow
Once upon a time manufacturers used to put a dab of paint on torque tightened fasteners to indicate that they had been tightened. I recall a wheel gun that did all wheel nuts/studs at the same time and applied a dab of paint as well.

Interesting. This is the whole stud though, although the nut seems to have taken it off in some cases apart from the last bit protected by the wheel,

I never torque wheel nuts, but then I've never had alloy wheels before which might be more easily distorted.

My standard grease-and-polythene technique may also be less appropriate here because the holes in the wheel are rather deeply recessed so the polythene may be more of a variable than usual.

If my wheels come off and I live. I'll let ya'll know.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - galileo
Once upon a time manufacturers used to put a dab of paint on torque tightened fasteners to indicate that they had been tightened. I recall a wheel gun that did all wheel nuts/studs at the same time and applied a dab of paint as well.

Most engineering factories have adopted the 'paint dot' on fasteners during assembly: I think the practice may have originated at Toyota as part of kaizen and other quality assurance and failsafing routines

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - gordonbennet

I wonder what lies beneath.

I can tell you what lies behind because those much vaunted W124 Mercs had plastic sill covers, and that is rust that can't be seen developing.

There are no outer steel sills on W124's, the underbody strength is built into the floor, the sill/chassis is built under the floor sections which makes for a seriously strong shell, behind 124 sill covers is the inner sill with welded on jacking points and those JP's rust like billio, if 124's had been galvanised they would have been a car the simpler versions of which would literally last you a lifetime.

I'd get those covers of and treat what can be saved.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Andrew-T

I don't think I've ever used the designed jacking points on any vehicle I've owned. They generally seem wimpy as built, and seem to corrode early, either because protection gets damaged by jack use, or because they are rot traps.

Since switching to Peugeots in the late 80s - 205s were well protected against rust - I have never used any other jacking point as I don't own anything sophisticated like a trolley jack. It was certainly true that earlier cars could fail spectacularly like that, and I remember tales of Vauxhalls popping their windscreens when jacked. I have also seen Minis with dented footwells, presumably because of foolish jacking. On the rare occasion when I take all wheels off, I place bricks and timber under the front subframe.

But I guess it would be easy to jack using an unstrengthened part of the sill seam, with unintended results.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

Skywing I use the sway-bar mounting plates at the front, which are quite thick steel and will locate both bottle jack and axle stand, with a bit of trial and error.

At the rear I wedged a square steel tube between sill and suspension bracket using railway sleeper cleats which were some super-strong reinforced plastic, no longer available.

Jackstand goes under chassis box section at rear, with extra lift provided by using a steel wheel and plate as a platform.

Similar tricks with previous cars I suppose, though I've forgotten the details. The Honda looks to have enough sub-frames and mounting points to avoid the sills, though I should probably spray them with something.

Its odd that the Skywing (which I think would not fail a UK MOT for structural rust) is sounder in this respect than a Honda 10 years younger. better looking, originally quite a lot more expensive and with no known history of surfer-dude ownership.

Perhaps they didn't make them like that any more, even then.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Bolt

Probably don't treet them as well, not often you find a rusty Accord here even back to 1996 (plenty of dents ) but no rust most end up scrapped through lack of maintenance, oil filter changes missed for one

Been 2 civics not far from me lasted 3yrs ish-without oil checked, and siezed, owners reckon they couldnt afford the oil ?

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

Both I think "Made in Taiwan" vehicles, so thats not a variable on this comparison. The Ford Sierra I had before (allegedly made in Germany) didn't have rust IIRC, so probably that does make a difference/

Maybe not a fair comparison anyway, since I;ve had the Skywing 7 or 8 years and rust treated it not long after I got it. A Taiwanese would never do that, and even in its previous .Canadian ownership I suspect it wouldnt have lasted much longer.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - brum

12 mm Allen key with two steel tube extensions gets aftermarket wheel nuts off without quite breaking, though it felt pretty close.

The studs have white stuff l(ooks like paint or TIPPEX) on the portion of thread not covered by the nuts. THINK I've seem something similar on you tube videos.

Anyone know what it is? I'm guessing some kind of anti-seize approved for wheel studs.

Its called corrosion. Zinc plating on the studs.

"Zinc plating prevents corrosion of the protected metal by forming a physical barrier, and by acting as a sacrificial anode if this barrier is damaged. When exposed to the atmosphere, zinc reacts with oxygen to form zinc oxide, which further reacts with water molecules in the air to form zinc hydroxide. Finally zinc hydroxide reacts with carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to yield a thin, impermeable, tenacious and quite insoluble dull grey layer of zinc carbonate which adheres extremely well to the underlying zinc, if undisturbed, can act as a barrier to further oxidation."

Edited by brum on 26/10/2020 at 19:03

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

I doubt it. As I said, it looks like paint or Tippex (the latter because its a bit powdery). It isn't present on the ends of the studs, which have rusted, whereas I'd expect hot-dip or electro-galvanised treatment to cover the whole thing.

I think it may also have been present on the disk boss and wheel contact faces, though these were rust stained and I initially assumed it was a galvanic corrosion product and buzzed it off the disk bosses.

I forgot the wheels (probably because I was sitting on them) until the last one, but the beercan disk made alarmingly deep scratches (almost grooves) in the alloy (never had alloys before and wouldn't much mind not having them again) and I wished I had left it alone.

The wheels came off very easily, which TBH they never do with the Skywing. I think this was preventative maintenance (!), not a typically Taiwanese thing.

I suppose I'll never know who did it (Honda dealer?) or what with.

Edited by edlithgow on 27/10/2020 at 00:38

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Andrew-T

I suppose I'll never know who did it (Honda dealer?) or what with.

I suppose you could scrape some off and get it analysed - if such a thing is possible somewhere in your seat of learning ?

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

I suppose I'll never know who did it (Honda dealer?) or what with.

I suppose you could scrape some off and get it analysed - if such a thing is possible somewhere in your seat of learning ?

Doesn't sound a very trivial analytical task, nor does it sound the sort of thing anyone is likely to be interested in doing to satisfy the curiosity of a foreign weirdo.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Andrew-T

<< Doesn't sound a very trivial analytical task, nor does it sound the sort of thing anyone is likely to be interested in doing to satisfy the curiosity of a foreign weirdo. >>

Any chemist capable of a university education could distinguish Tippex from oxidised zinc, and probably from real paint too. I couldn't comment about the foreign weirdness effect.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

<< Doesn't sound a very trivial analytical task, nor does it sound the sort of thing anyone is likely to be interested in doing to satisfy the curiosity of a foreign weirdo. >>

Any chemist capable of a university education could distinguish Tippex from oxidised zinc, and probably from real paint too. I couldn't comment about the foreign weirdness effect.

I know it isn't zinc. I seriously doubt its Tippex (Though that might work, and if I'd been...er..maintaining this car it might be a possibility, as might toothpaste).

Finding out what it actually IS would get me into Doctorate Dissertation Territory..

In Chinese

Do you feel a reality-induced headache coming on yet?

Edited by edlithgow on 28/10/2020 at 00:04

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - bathtub tom
I think it may also have been present on the disk boss and wheel contact faces

I've seen something like that on a Nissan with ally wheels. Assumed it was something to prevent the wheel 'sticking' to the hub.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow
I think it may also have been present on the disk boss and wheel contact faces

I've seen something like that on a Nissan with ally wheels. Assumed it was something to prevent the wheel 'sticking' to the hub.

That my assumption too, which implies I probably shouldn't have taken it off, though I only did both mating surfaces for one wheel.

I sandwiched a sheet of polythene between that wheel and the disk boss to prevent it sticking.

Shear strength? We don' need no steenkeeng shear strength.

Probably.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - Andrew-T

<< I sandwiched a sheet of polythene between that wheel and the disk boss to prevent it sticking. >>

Will that require subsequent retightening as the polythene extrudes under pressure ?

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow

<< I sandwiched a sheet of polythene between that wheel and the disk boss to prevent it sticking. >>

Will that require subsequent retightening as the polythene extrudes under pressure ?

Dunno.

I used to do it routinely on the Skywing when I was using sunflower oil and aluminium to treat the rusty brake drums, because sunflower oil is a fairly strong adhesive. I didn't note any wheel loosening.

I'd assume the stud tension took up any movement. The sheet must be pretty thin and the bearing surface is rather large.

I don't currently do this on the Skywing because the drums dont seem to need further rust treatment.

Of greater concern on these alloy wheels would be the polythene I put on the stud threads, or rather the excess that gets trapped in the deeply recessed holes in the wheel. The conical nut faces seat on this excess (which I can pull off on standard steel wheels) and I'd think some movement is a possibility.

I'll keep an eye on it and modify the technique for these wheels if it seems necessary.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - bathtub tom
I'd assume the stud tension took up any movement. The sheet must be pretty thin and the bearing surface is rather large.

I remember being told never to paint the back surface of steel wheels because the paint could compress, resulting in the the wheel coming loose. I'd reckon a coat of paint is thinner than a sheet of polythene.

1997 Taiwan Honda Accord - White Stuff on Wheel Studs - edlithgow
I'd assume the stud tension took up any movement. The sheet must be pretty thin and the bearing surface is rather large.

I remember being told never to paint the back surface of steel wheels because the paint could compress, resulting in the the wheel coming loose. I'd reckon a coat of paint is thinner than a sheet of polythene.

Ah, So. That must be why alloy wheels took over.

Not because they reduce the unsprung mass (though your average punter is really hot on reducing unsprung mass)

And not because they look prettier. Your average punter is a hard-headed practical type, i not moved by mere shiny baubles.

Its because the people who used steel wheels, every single one of which came painted from the factory, all died when the paint compressed and the wheels fell off.

Life was cheap in them days.

Edited by edlithgow on 29/10/2020 at 00:07