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Cambridge magic roundabout - sammy1

The new cycle priority roundabout has cost some £2.3million and is based on models in Holland. The inner ring is for vehicles and an outer ring for Jeremy Vine should he move here. The rule is vehicles give way to bikes. I hope this does not induce a degree of confidence in cyclists as they are still extremely vulnerable on our roads. I trust that bikes will go round clockwise as will vehicles which would be OK for bikes entering from the left, but what happens when vehicles have bikes crossing them to their right as the bike seeks to exit their lane on the roundabout? Time will tell how well it works but speeding bikes and cars seems like an accident waiting to happen. Other problems could be cyclists not going the correct way around and being difficult to see in the dark. Bikes and vehicles do not mix well together and neither do bikes and pedestrians.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Engineer Andy

As a local (and who has used said roundabout [but in my car]), I never really found it to be 'dangerous', but I was staggered at the cost (which is several multiples of the original budget [as usual]), given that it is a known design and 'just a roundabout', not rocket science.

They also butchered the Hills Road in a similar manner.

And all this whilst the council says they are strapped for cash.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Trilogy.

Cambridge council is very good at wasting money.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Engineer Andy

Cambridge council is very good at wasting money.

Yep, and their County Council colleagues (it doesn't appear to matter which party the councillors belong to - the city council is Labour, the County Council is Tory, South Cambs Distruct Coucnil is Lib Dem) wasted a fortune on the Guided Busway (which could've been done as a deidcated bus road for far less and avoided years of litigation with the contractors) and the surrounding District Councils regularly waste money on an equally grand scale on worthless schemes.

Cambridge magic roundabout - daveyjp

The biggest issue with any roadworks is no one can give you a definitive answer as to what is actually under the ground until you start digging.

Even quite minor roadworks can require substantial works to non Council property. Gas, electric, data, waste, drains and all utilities will only give a best estimate based on the info they have on their records.

A local road widening scheme has been delayed months as they found a main drain, a water main and a HV power cable none of the utilities were aware existed. Redesign of these elements results in delays which have to be paid for.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Engineer Andy

The biggest issue with any roadworks is no one can give you a definitive answer as to what is actually under the ground until you start digging.

Even quite minor roadworks can require substantial works to non Council property. Gas, electric, data, waste, drains and all utilities will only give a best estimate based on the info they have on their records.

A local road widening scheme has been delayed months as they found a main drain, a water main and a HV power cable none of the utilities were aware existed. Redesign of these elements results in delays which have to be paid for.

True, but such things happen quite often, so you'd think they would include a contingency for this sort of eventuality, or, better still, properly survey the area before coming up with the budget. Sadly this debacle is something I've seen quite a lot (and try to advocate better or some actual up-front surveying before going to the next phase) in construction for the two decades I was an engineer in the industry.

The lack of adeqaute surveying was why the amount of money needed to do up the London Tube waws several magintudes higher than originally budegted.

It's all about box-ticking and virtue-signally to please a certain audience or higher-ups.

Britain ain't Great.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Pinstripe

My wife and I have both driven across the new Dutch roundabout in the last week.

We think it will become an accident black spot. On the plus side, it's near the hospital.

We have a friend who cycles through Cambridge (he doesn't own a car) and he is refusing to use the allocated cycle tracks on this new roundabout because he thinks it's too dangerous.

I used to cycle through Cambridge and if I still did, I wouldn't use it either!

.

Edited by Pinstripe on 09/08/2020 at 10:13

Cambridge magic roundabout - Terry W

Seems completely daft to me. Cars and bikes are best separated wherever possible.

The crossings (pelican/zebra) at the exit to the roundabout are already dangerous on busy junctions - not only do cars need to avoid other cars as they change lane to exit, they have to watch for people crossing. We now add right of way to bikes to an already potentially life threatening situation.

To separate the car from the bike roundabout needs a lot more land which no doubt adds to cost. A much safer solution, certainly where traffic volumes are high, would be to design in bike/pedestrian elevated paths so bikes and cars never come close.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Trilogy.

Terry, who is going to pay for elevated paths? They're not necessary.

Cambridge magic roundabout - focussed

The one feature that Cambridge council has forgotten to install on their new Dutch-design roundabout is Dutch rules.

They include little gems that UK cyclists may find hard to understand, such as:-

"Clearly indicating to other road users which way you are going to turn is an important way to avoid collisions. By holding out an arm at a 90 degree angle, in the direction you intend to turn, will help those around you anticipate your movements"

https://www.tudelft.nl/en/about-tu-delft/working-at-tu-delft/coming-to-the-netherlands-tu-delft/support-for-international-employees/transport-information/cycling-information/traffic-safety-rules/

Edited by focussed on 09/08/2020 at 10:44

Cambridge magic roundabout - Engineer Andy

The one feature that Cambridge council has forgotten to install on their new Dutch-design roundabout is Dutch rules.

They include little gems that UK cyclists may find hard to understand, such as:-

"Clearly indicating to other road users which way you are going to turn is an important way to avoid collisions. By holding out an arm at a 90 degree angle, in the direction you intend to turn, will help those around you anticipate your movements"

https://www.tudelft.nl/en/about-tu-delft/working-at-tu-delft/coming-to-the-netherlands-tu-delft/support-for-international-employees/transport-information/cycling-information/traffic-safety-rules/

Not a surprise. I live on a housing development that was built on the continental 'Home Zone' premise where cars and pedestrians share the road, and there's less parking, etc. Needless to say it hasn't worked out well.

On the plus side for the local council, we all pay full council tax but have to pay out of our own pockets to maintain the development's road, paths, street lights and communal park etc because the roads were not adopted because they amazingly did not meet council standards. Not planned at all.

Meanwhile, the S106 'bribe' gets spent for the benefit of other taxpayers on projects similar to like this idiotic roundabout. Don't you just love local democracy?

Cambridge magic roundabout - Trilogy.

The one feature that Cambridge council has forgotten to install on their new Dutch-design roundabout is Dutch rules.

They include little gems that UK cyclists may find hard to understand, such as:-

"Clearly indicating to other road users which way you are going to turn is an important way to avoid collisions. By holding out an arm at a 90 degree angle, in the direction you intend to turn, will help those around you anticipate your movements"

https://www.tudelft.nl/en/about-tu-delft/working-at-tu-delft/coming-to-the-netherlands-tu-delft/support-for-international-employees/transport-information/cycling-information/traffic-safety-rules/

That equally applies to some car/van/HGV,/bus/coach drivers etc.

Cambridge magic roundabout - concrete

I worked in Holland for two years and found the Dutch to be a sensible race. They have their moments but on the whole follow the rules and are not slow to remind others to do the same. It may be easier to achieve this in such a small country, only about 12 times the size of Cambridgeshire and four times the size of Yorkshire. All of these so called 'planned road engineering schemes' are suspect. Like any scheme if the rules are followed meticulously they operate quite well, but given our propensity to do anything to get 10 feet in front of another road user it comes unstuck. One particular scheme in North Yorkshire saw a roundabout redesign, which resulted in always being in the wrong lane when going round more than one junction. I would force the designers to drive around their schemes every hour on the hour to realise the mayhem their hair brained schemes inflict on road users. Things would soon change then.

Cheers Concrete

Cambridge magic roundabout - barney100

Here in sunny Basingstoke the cyclists have cleverly had cycle lanes marked out, they don't use them as the pavement seems more attractive. They use pedestrian crossings, mobile phones, ride three abreast when on a road and generally have a jolly time from their moral high ground and pay not a penny in road taxes.

Cambridge magic roundabout - bathtub tom

cyclists............pay not a penny in road taxes.

How many cyclists do you know who don't own a car? I do support your other gripes.

Cambridge magic roundabout - barney100

Good question, up in Yorkshire the other week saw loads of people parking up and then off on their bikes.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Zippy123

Here in sunny Basingstoke the cyclists have cleverly had cycle lanes marked out, they don't use them as the pavement seems more attractive. They use pedestrian crossings, mobile phones, ride three abreast when on a road and generally have a jolly time from their moral high ground and pay not a penny in road taxes.

No one pays a penny in road taxes.

Car, vans, lorries, motor bikes etc pay vehicle excise duty which is NOT a hypothecated tax.

It goes in to the general taxation bucket used by the Govt for all things.

The general rule I follow on normal roads if is is squishy, it has priority.

Edited by Zippy123 on 09/08/2020 at 22:49

Cambridge magic roundabout - Bromptonaut

Too close to the nearside kerb is a dangerous place for a cyclist at any time; debris, drains, broken surfaces, slippy thermoplastic paint and in everybody's blind spot. Then add being on a roundabout

I'll carry on using roundabouts like a car, properly positioned and appropriately signalled.

Cambridge magic roundabout - gordonbennet

I can guarantee who none of the people responsible for these hare brained schemes thought to ask for input, and they never ever do, that's long term road users of all categories, and i don't mean planners and their mates who happen to ride or drive 50 miles a week, i mean people who drive or ride all the time and use the roads in the area continually and have done so for more than the preceeding 6 weeks.

I've seen pics and a videa report of this junction, like so many things it looks wonderful on the computer model, when its unveiled on a nice warm clear day with legion of super nukem spotless hivis wearers parading for the media all with minimal traffic travelling extra slowly and carefully due to said hivis/camera convention, again it will appear a utopian solution.

When it's freezing cold dark wet and many cars and other vehicles will have filthy steamed up windows, and unlit cycles/pedestrians dressed in fashionable black from head to toe, all get together, with a large proportion in all manner of transport with a mentality of self importance and priority then all bets will be off.

How easy it is for these apparatchiks to spend, waste, other people's money, never to be brought to account (pun intended) just swan off to the next farce.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Engineer Andy

Too close to the nearside kerb is a dangerous place for a cyclist at any time; debris, drains, broken surfaces, slippy thermoplastic paint and in everybody's blind spot. Then add being on a roundabout

I'll carry on using roundabouts like a car, properly positioned and appropriately signalled.

I agree - having come acropper on previous bikes of mine because of debris in the kerbside area AND on designated cycle paths.

A former boss of mine fractured his arm and suffered concussion (for the second time) from a trip over the handlebars because of either a pothole or drain that he couldn't avoid when cycling across London (and on his Brompton bike!). He was lucky to not suffered a far more serious injury, considering the accident happened in the very busy road area in theatreland.

I'm currently trying to get back some fitness for cycling and may in the next month or so may be in a position to try out said roundabout, given I live not too far from it. Trying to get to it without braving some increasibly dangerous single carriageway national speed limit trunk roads means I might need a few more weeks to get the fitness to go the (very) long way!

Cambridge magic roundabout - focussed
"first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to cyclists to CLOSE just days after it opened"

Oh Dear - that's a really good start. A car crashed into a beacon and the roundabout has been closed due to "structural damage" .

How much did it cost? 2.5 million as I recall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613255/Minor-car-crash-forces-Britains-Dutch-style-roundabout-CLOSE-just-days-opened.html

Cambridge magic roundabout - Sparrow

I used to live in Cambridge but never go there these days. I hope the cyclists there now are better at their road discipline than they were then. They would come at you from all angles, sono different to this roundabout. The first time I encountered one when driving in Holland I eas well confused. First give way to cyclists on the bright red circle, then give way to cars on the normal roundabout, then, when leaving the rounabout, just when I'd normally be stepping on the gas to pull away, another bright red ring with cyclists to give way to. I was driving very slowly as it was a new phenomenon, added difficulty being on the other side of the road, so all done anticlockwise. I would have thought they might run an experiment first, like they did with the Swindon magic rounabout, to optimise the design. They might have found that they couldn't.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Terry W

Not only did it cost £2.3m, it was £1.5m over budget and took four years. Just good luck that the motorist took out a bit of road hardware and not a cyclist.

Probably quite good by many local authority standards!

Cambridge magic roundabout - focussed

My eldest daughter was at Trinity starting in the nineties and is still there at another college. Driving in Cambridge taking her to and from college was a nightmare then so must be hell on earth there now. The pedalists just ride however they feel like, wrong side of the road, wrong way up one way streets etc you get overtaken on both sides by bikes - madness.

Cambridge magic roundabout - S40 Man

Cambridge taking her to and from college was a nightmare.....

Just imagine how bad the traffic would be if all those cyclists suddenly started to drive cars? I really believe a bike is less bother to motorists than other cars, cabs and lorries are. Therefore don't complain about them, and when driving give them space and time.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Trilogy.

Just imagine how bad the traffic would be if all those cyclists suddenly started to drive cars? I really believe a bike is less bother to motorists than other cars, cabs and lorries are. Therefore don't complain about them, and when driving give them space and time.

Many cyclists do drive cars. When I worked in Cambridge I remember people who used both. They'd behave as a cyclist while on their bike and as a motorist when driving their car. Two of the problems in Cambridge are the students and those with a 'death' wish who have no idea how dangerous it is to ride a bike with no regard for anyone's safety. Another of course is the lack of consideration given to cyclists by motorists, hardly a surprise it doesn't always happen given how often many cyclist choose to go the wrong way up one way streets, that's a common occurrence in the centre of the city.

I don't see much changing without more education, tolerance and consideration for all who use our roads.

Edited by Trilogy. on 14/08/2020 at 08:01

Cambridge magic roundabout - Manatee

I drive through and around Cambridge a couple of times a month and I have almost no trouble with cycles and cyclists. I think they have got better over the years, or maybe I have adjusted my attitude - I'm not sure.

Drivers who think they should be able rush about as if the bikes don't exist will have more problems when they encounter them. I'm certainly less of a rusher these days.

I am pessimistic about the success of the new roundabout. The selfish and inconsiderate attitude of a significant minority of British drivers probably makes the design inappropriate for the UK.

I certainly agree about Hills Road. The level of distraction created by 'road safety' measures there brought me nearer to colliding with a cyclist than I have ever been before or since.

Some years ago my wife set off at some lights as they turned green and the car ahead had set off, and was hit in the right front wing by a rider who had chosen that moment to serve off the pavement and across the road. Disgraceful. I do not think this proves anything about people on cycles in general. The problem was just another inconsiderate prat, not the bike.

The thing about driving a car is that you can be an idiot and remain oblivious in your isolation to what a terrible driver you are and many do. Experience should develop competence, some just develop an unjustified confidence in their own ability.

I'd like a bit more energy directed at ways of cooperating, rather than blaming. The blaming really won't solve the 'problem' - the blaming is the problem in large part. Perhaps on both sides. Riding a bike and experiencing the ignorance and dangerous behaviour of some drivers certainly colours my attitude to the rest.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Trilogy.
"first Dutch-style roundabout that gives priority to cyclists to CLOSE just days after it opened"

Oh Dear - that's a really good start. A car crashed into a beacon and the roundabout has been closed due to "structural damage" .

How much did it cost? 2.5 million as I recall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613255/Minor-car-crash-forces-Britains-Dutch-style-roundabout-CLOSE-just-days-opened.html

What a surprise, a human using it is at fault.

Cambridge magic roundabout - Avant

This really is an accident waiting to happen isn't it. Having a dedicated cycle lane on a roundabout makes sense, but.....

1 Motorists aren't used to having to give way on leaving a roundabout - yet for some reason, from the pictures kindly supplied by Focussed, there seem to be clear Give Way markings on one of the exits but not on the other three.

2 On UK roundabouts you normally have your eyes looking for traffic on the right as well as straight ahead. Having to look out for cyclists coming from the left will be unfamiliar, and too often is just not going to happen.

3 Surely the zebra crossings should be several yards away from the roundabout? I don't know how busy that junction is, but it's near Addenbrooke's so probably very busy - and easily gridlocked if there's a lot of stopping on the roundabout itself.

Clearly a creation of men in suits sitting in meetings. Perhaps some of them are Oxford graduates.....

Cambridge magic roundabout - _ORB_

it's near Addenbrooke's so probably very busy - and easily gridlocked if there's a lot of stopping on the roundabout itself.

Addenbrookes is not far away. A couple of years ago I used to have to take youngrovergirl to Addenbrookes for some sessions there and we found it best to get there before 7 am and go and have a coffee somewhere. I went into Cambrisge for the morning or day and dumpted the car in the park and ride. It is walkable to the hospital and a whole lot cheaper than addenbrookes parking.

Cambridge magic roundabout - bathtub tom

I went to Addenbrookes a couple of times last year, It's a massive site. Was warned off trying to park in one of the multi-storeys on site and advised to use the park-n-ride and guided busway in. Got off at the fourth bus stop in Addenbrookes. There's even a small bus station there. This was before the new Papworth opened there

 

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