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EV musings - DieselBoy

I have access to a car leasing scheme at work that is inclusive of insurance, RFL, routine maintenance, repairs and tyres.

Recently, I've been configuring cars as potential replacements for ny current PCP funded Octavia VRS, and have noted electric vehicles seem to be reasonable value at the moment, especially when considering reduction in fuel costs. The cars to have caught my eye are;..

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range

Polestar 2.

Mercedes EQC (left field, but some great deals at the moment)

Each have a decent range - probably 230 real world for the Tesla and 275 for the Polestar. I travel more than that maybe a few times a year. The Tesla Suoercharger network would be of use here.

Both look like they have enough space for me and the family.

There is a large attraction at being able to use, say, the Octopus Go tariff to charge at 5p per kwh at night, equating to 250 odd miles for about £3.50 in electricity. Installing a charger at home shouldn't be a problem, other than trenching a cable over to where the cars are kept.

Am I missing aomething massively terrible about these cars...?

Edited by DieselBoy on 13/07/2020 at 18:15

EV musings - mcb100
There are lots of reports of what may be referred to as ‘sub optimal’ build quality when it comes to Tesla. Doubtless it’s a great product, with a good charging network, but as a manufacturer of cars they’re still new boys at volume production and it shows at times. A quick Google of ‘Tesla build quality’ will bring back a few hits...
EV musings - badbusdriver

I have access to a car leasing scheme at work that is inclusive of insurance, RFL, routine maintenance, repairs and tyres.

Recently, I've been configuring cars as potential replacements for ny current PCP funded Octavia VRS, and have noted electric vehicles seem to be reasonable value at the moment, especially when considering reduction in fuel costs. The cars to have caught my eye are;..

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range

Polestar 2.

Mercedes EQC (left field, but some great deals at the moment)

Each have a decent range - probably 230 real world for the Tesla and 275 for the Polestar. I travel more than that maybe a few times a year. The Tesla Suoercharger network would be of use here.

Both look like they have enough space for me and the family.

There is a large attraction at being able to use, say, the Octopus Go tariff to charge at 5p per kwh at night, equating to 250 odd miles for about £3.50 in electricity. Installing a charger at home shouldn't be a problem, other than trenching a cable over to where the cars are kept.

Am I missing aomething massively terrible about these cars...?

Not sure why you think the Merc is the left field choice?, it is just a generic Merc SUV with an electric powertrain and for that reason, it wouldn't be my choice. But either of the other two?, absolutely, if i were in your position, i'd go for either the Tesla or Polestar!.

Edited by badbusdriver on 13/07/2020 at 18:37

EV musings - DieselBoy

Maybe not left field I suppose. More it's a different beast to the other two.

EV musings - John F

Am I missing aomething massively terrible about these cars...?

Price? Longevity?

EV musings - DieselBoy

Price? Longevity

Reasonably competitively priced as a lease, mainly due to the low BIK rate. In terms of longevity - it's a lease so isn't really an issue.

EV musings - Terry W

Even if a long journey happens only (say) half a dozen times a year, you need to be very confident about the availibility of a fast recharge. Otherwise nights in Travellodge and Premier Inns loom large.

Stick to the South-east and main motorway network you are probably OK. South West, Scotland and Wales will give you range anxiety.

EV musings - Sofa Spud

Even if a long journey happens only (say) half a dozen times a year, you need to be very confident about the availibility of a fast recharge. Otherwise nights in Travellodge and Premier Inns loom large.

Stick to the South-east and main motorway network you are probably OK. South West, Scotland and Wales will give you range anxiety.

One wonders how people managed in the past with gas guzzlers like Jensen Interceptors or Jaguar XJ12's. They must have had moments of range anxiety when touring remote areas !!

Edited by Sofa Spud on 14/07/2020 at 10:44

EV musings - craig-pd130

One wonders how people managed in the past with gas guzzlers like Jensen Interceptors or Jaguar XJ12's. They must have had moments of range anxiety when touring remote areas !!

I rented an Interceptor for a weekend a few years back, it was the 440cui (7.2 litre) version. It did about 13mpg despite some, er, enthusiastic driving. They have an 18 gallon tank so they're not too bad in terms of range anxiety,

EV musings - Engineer Andy

I do remember when Top Gear (Clarkson-Hamster-May) did a 'road trip' race with Jezza in a Jag that it had a huge tank - a good 80+ litres.

EV musings - John F

In my premarital petrolhead days I had a rusty old XJ6. It had a twelve gallon tank in each rear wing. One of the umpteen switches on the dashboard toggled from one tank to the other. Great for continental trips - after refuelling with the then cheap Luxembourg petrol you could reach most of Europe!

EV musings - Senexdriver

I’ve often mused about visitors who arrive in an EV and don’t have enough in the battery to get back home. So they hook up to my domestic electricity for the day while we eat, drink, reminisce and generally enjoy each others’ company. Great - but hang on, when we visit them a few weeks later, I don’t ask them to pay for the petrol in my ICE for the return journey. Different costs, I know, but I might get a bit peeved at supplying electricity for my guests who run EVs. And if I had an EV and needed a charge to get back home, I’d feel a bit awkward using my hosts’ power.

EV musings - alan1302

I’ve often mused about visitors who arrive in an EV and don’t have enough in the battery to get back home. So they hook up to my domestic electricity for the day while we eat, drink, reminisce and generally enjoy each others’ company. Great - but hang on, when we visit them a few weeks later, I don’t ask them to pay for the petrol in my ICE for the return journey. Different costs, I know, but I might get a bit peeved at supplying electricity for my guests who run EVs. And if I had an EV and needed a charge to get back home, I’d feel a bit awkward using my hosts’ power.

It might become a social norm - like giving them food and drink!

EV musings - badbusdriver

I do remember when Top Gear (Clarkson-Hamster-May) did a 'road trip' race with Jezza in a Jag that it had a huge tank - a good 80+ litres.

I remember at the time that episode went out i had been amusing myself with an online configurator for either Citroen or Peugeot vans. Don't remember which make, but both vans are the same anyway, the Dispatch and Boxer. Anyway, one of the options was an extended fuel tank which held (if memory serves) 180 litres!. And while they are a fairly big van, they wouldn't be any thirstier than a big (modern) diesel SUV.

EV musings - craig-pd130

I’ve often mused about visitors who arrive in an EV and don’t have enough in the battery to get back home. So they hook up to my domestic electricity for the day while we eat, drink, reminisce and generally enjoy each others’ company. Great - but hang on, when we visit them a few weeks later, I don’t ask them to pay for the petrol in my ICE for the return journey. Different costs, I know, but I might get a bit peeved at supplying electricity for my guests who run EVs. And if I had an EV and needed a charge to get back home, I’d feel a bit awkward using my hosts’ power.

Get a wallbox and put a pound-coin meter on it ;-)

EV musings - jc2

In my premarital petrolhead days I had a rusty old XJ6. It had a twelve gallon tank in each rear wing. One of the umpteen switches on the dashboard toggled from one tank to the other. Great for continental trips - after refuelling with the then cheap Luxembourg petrol you could reach most of Europe!

I once owned an Allard-24 gallon tank with an electrically operated reserve of two gallons.

EV musings - madf

In my premarital petrolhead days I had a rusty old XJ6. It had a twelve gallon tank in each rear wing. One of the umpteen switches on the dashboard toggled from one tank to the other. Great for continental trips - after refuelling with the then cheap Luxembourg petrol you could reach most of Europe!

I once owned an Allard-24 gallon tank with an electrically operated reserve of two gallons.

I owned one of those Jaguars.

Towed a caravan with it - usually rather quickly.

15mpg so very limited range..

But great fun.

EV musings - Terry W

Range anxiety is absolutely no concern for ICE in the UK - there is a fuel station in almost every town, some villages, on all motorways etc etc.

Contrast with TESLA superchargers - in the south-west there is apparently 2 (yes 2!!) between Bristol and Lands End.

EV musings - DieselBoy

The Suoercharger network isn't everywhere, but I'm sure there will be some kind of standard chargers in number between Bristol and Lands End!

I've just been looking at chargescotland.org - there's hundreds of the things!

EV musings - Terry W

No problem with charging stations - the main issue is how long it takes compared with petrol diesel - 5 minutes?

20 - 30 minutes would be OK on a car with a 150 mile + range between stops on the basis that you are happy to have a pee and coffee whilst you wait.

1 - 2 hours would be OK if it can be combined with a meal or shopping mall visit.

Any more than that seriously limits the usefulness of an EV to local trips only.

EV musings - bathtub tom

That's if an empty parking spot is available next to the charger.

EV musings - Sofa Spud

Range anxiety is absolutely no concern for ICE in the UK - there is a fuel station in almost every town, some villages, on all motorways etc etc.

Contrast with TESLA superchargers - in the south-west there is apparently 2 (yes 2!!) between Bristol and Lands End.

So how come I've been in cars with drivers who suddenly notice the fuel warning light is on and the gauge is reading 'E' when they're 10 miles from the next service area on the motorway? I can't remember running low on a motorway myself, when I've been driving, but some people do.

You can charge Teslas on other chargers if need be - I once knew someone who would only buy petrol at a Shell service station!

EV musings - madf

All the talk about range is irrelevant when it's really cold weather. Divide by two and drive without heating and you might get there...

EV musings - Sofa Spud

All the talk about range is irrelevant when it's really cold weather. Divide by two and drive without heating and you might get there...

Even if the range is halved in very cold weather, which is a worst-case scenario, your EV would still be cheaper to run than an equivalent petrol or diesel car.

EV musings - sammy1

Even if the range is halved in very cold weather, which is a worst-case scenario, your EV would still be cheaper to run than an equivalent petrol or diesel car.

IT may well be cheaper to fuel but what about the capital cost of your EV?

EV musings - Avant

It may not be quite as much as halved, but the point is still well made.

That's why I'm thinking of a PHEV rather than an EV for my next car. I regularly do a 200-mile round trip and the last thing I'd want on a cold wet winter night is range anxiety.

But no doubt batteries will improve in time, as they have already. When the Leaf first came out, a 300-mile maximum range was a pipe-dream.

Edited by Avant on 20/07/2020 at 12:28

EV musings - DieselBoy

I rarely do 200 mile journeys. We always have my wife's ICE car if need be.

Of the many (and I do mean many) YouTube videos I've watched, battery conditioning is now a standard, meaning there's no longer such a significant loss of range in cold weather. As Avant says, things have come on a long way since the first Leaf.

The capital outlay isn't so much of an issue for me as I'm looking at a salary sacrifice lease. BIK changes mean, at the moment, I can lease a Tesla Model 3, a Polestar 2, a Mercedes EQC or an Audi e-tron for roughly the same monthly cost as a diesel VW Passat.

EV musings - Firmbutfair

I rarely do 200 mile journeys. We always have my wife's ICE car if need be.

Of the many (and I do mean many) YouTube videos I've watched, battery conditioning is now a standard, meaning there's no longer such a significant loss of range in cold weather. As Avant says, things have come on a long way since the first Leaf.

The capital outlay isn't so much of an issue for me as I'm looking at a salary sacrifice lease. BIK changes mean, at the moment, I can lease a Tesla Model 3, a Polestar 2, a Mercedes EQC or an Audi e-tron for roughly the same monthly cost as a diesel VW Passat.

Well Mr DieselBoy, it's what we call a no brainer. Simply choose a manufacturer that has an exemplary reputation for reliability and uses well proven technology and NOT a flashy start up company that churns out its BEVs with poor paintwork, poor fit and finish, and only a laptop sized touch screen to monitor and control most of your essential driving functions! Additionally, it is indeed a privilege to have a company car. I enjoyed the convenience of company cars with two employers over an 8 year period until I joined the public sector as a Technical Specialst in Telecommunications, but luckily the job was based in London and so I was able to commute on the train from wildest Essex and as a family, we 'downsized' from a top of the range Mondeo company car to a modest Honda Civic 1.4i Hatchback that served us faultlessly for over 10 years and 105,000 miles before trading it in for an 'even better' Hyundai 1.25 litre i20 under a very generous govt scrappage scheme. Enjoy.

Edited by Firmbutfair on 20/07/2020 at 08:36

EV musings - DieselBoy

Well Mr DieselBoy, it's what we call a no brainer. Simply choose a manufacturer that has an exemplary reputation for reliability and uses well proven technology and NOT a flashy start up company that churns out its BEVs with poor paintwork, poor fit and finish, and only a laptop sized touch screen to monitor and control most of your essential driving functions!

Therein lies the issue! Avoiding startups rules out the Teala and Polestar. EQC? There's a massive gap between the so called 'premium EVs and the next lot, eg Peugeot e2008 etc.

EV musings - madf

All the talk about range is irrelevant when it's really cold weather. Divide by two and drive without heating and you might get there...

Even if the range is halved in very cold weather, which is a worst-case scenario, your EV would still be cheaper to run than an equivalent petrol or diesel car.

If the theoretical warm range is 250 miles and it's winter and (say) the real world range is 190 miles, that means charging . Now I travel to shows where there are no charging points so I am going to have to stop and wait - somewhere whilst it recharges.

So say an hour added to my journey.

PIA..

The technology is rather like petrol cars of the 1920s.

I'll wait - early EVs will be worthless in the next 5 years as technology advances.()Who wants to buy a 2005 Toyota Prius?)

Edited by madf on 20/07/2020 at 10:29

EV musings - pd

I'll wait - early EVs will be worthless in the next 5 years as technology advances.()Who wants to buy a 2005 Toyota Prius?)

Quite a few people. The residuals on Prius are very high, even the old ones with 300k ex-taxi miles on the clock. Th residuals on Teslas are class leading as well.

A 2005 Prius with 180-200k on the clock is worth £2k all day long - trying getting that for a 2005 200k Focus petrol.

EV musings - RT

I'll wait - early EVs will be worthless in the next 5 years as technology advances.

There's no sign of that at present - early Renault Zoe's are expensive when the battery lease cost is added, Nissan Leaf's aren't cheap and even Citroen C-zero/Peugeot Ion's are silly money compared to similar sized/aged cars.

I'm looking for an older small city car for my short journeys, to reduce my carbon footprint by not using a big diesel SUV - but EV's are 2-3 time the price of an IC car.

EV musings - Terry W

"So how come I've been in cars with drivers who suddenly notice the fuel warning light is on and the gauge is reading 'E' when they're 10 miles from the next service area on the motorway?"

Those that do are convinced that the closer the tank gets to empty the less fuel it uses!

They are of course wrong, but it's nice to thing that you are getting closer to fuel free motoring. Or perhaps they are plain stupid!

EV musings - DieselBoy

Well, the trigger has been pulled, so to speak.

My Octavia VRS has gone, courtesy of WBAC. An order has gone in for a Tesla Model 3 SR+ in blue. Currently the leasing site shows as 'On Order' and quotes a lead time of 14 weeks from signing the documentation. However, they also say it could be sooner that that as Tesla don't build to order, rather they match vehicles to orders.

In the meantime I've borrowed a car off a friend. If it turns out to be 14 weeks, I can get a 'Stopgap' car from the leasing company.

I don't mind saying, I'm excited.

EV musings - badbusdriver

Well the Model 3 certainly seems to be one of the 'must have' cars of the moment. For the most part, it recieves nothing but praise from the motoring press, but it will be interesting to hear how an actual owner, in the real world, finds it!

EV musings - RT

Well the Model 3 certainly seems to be one of the 'must have' cars of the moment. For the most part, it recieves nothing but praise from the motoring press, but it will be interesting to hear how an actual owner, in the real world, finds it!

As I'm no longer able to do any jobs on the car myself, I employ a valeter on a regular basis - he was commenting that one of his other regular customers has a Tesla Model X which he valets, but when it goes for repair, which is regularly, they give him a Model 3 courtesy car and my valeter commented how badly built it was, plenty of swirls and runs in the paintwork as well as uneven panel gaps.

Edited by RT on 27/08/2020 at 19:56

EV musings - barney100

I've got range anxiety just thinking about EVs. recently went from Hampshire to N Yorks in my trusty diesel. Filled up and the fuel lasted for days after getting up there. Can someone tell me how this journey to the middle of the Dales would pan out in an EV?

EV musings - alan1302

I've got range anxiety just thinking about EVs. recently went from Hampshire to N Yorks in my trusty diesel. Filled up and the fuel lasted for days after getting up there. Can someone tell me how this journey to the middle of the Dales would pan out in an EV?

You may need to charge on way to North Yorks.

The have a charge up when you get there. Then charge as and when needed.

EV musings - Sofa Spud

I've got range anxiety just thinking about EVs. recently went from Hampshire to N Yorks in my trusty diesel. Filled up and the fuel lasted for days after getting up there. Can someone tell me how this journey to the middle of the Dales would pan out in an EV?

You may need to charge on way to North Yorks.

The have a charge up when you get there. Then charge as and when needed.

Don't they have electricity in the Yorkshire Dales yet?

EV musings - barney100

The views provide enough electricity for the soul, charging points however were very thin on the ground but the owner of the place we stayed had a new Tesla so he manages.

EV musings - gordonbennet

I've got range anxiety just thinking about EVs. recently went from Hampshire to N Yorks in my trusty diesel. Filled up and the fuel lasted for days after getting up there. Can someone tell me how this journey to the middle of the Dales would pan out in an EV?

There are always choices to make when choosing anything, particularly cars, if that type of journey and extended stay in a remote area was regular for you, then no doubt you would have some charging arrangement where you were based in the Dales, main road journey wise one must give credit where its due to Tesla, their dedicated charging network is well established already.

Electric cars won't suit some people, especially in rural areas for a while yet but internal combsution engined vehicles arn't going to vanish overnight and my own opinion is that 2030 ending of petrol engined car sales will be pushed back by several years at least as the date gets closer and the infrastructure, especially grid capacity, nothing like ready.

I'm not an EV fan by the way, not something i'm ever likely to own, quite happy running other peoples cast offs for the rest of me natural.

Best of luck with your new car though Dieselboy, probably the best choice in pure EVs you could make, will you be changing your forum name to suit your new found status?

EV musings - apdleam

Vauxhall Ampera or identical Chevrolet Volt would be an equally painless way to do that journey - with the benefit of a smooth electric drive powered by the petrol generator once the battery has been discharged. Totally overlooked cars which still beat most new PHEVS for range. Owners love them. Would still manage 55-60mpg over that long journey too.

EV musings - Zippy123

There are Chevrolet Volts that have done starship mileage:

https://www.voltstats.net/

Sort by Total Miles.

EV musings - 2010Jagman

I made the change from diesel to electric earlier this year, bought a Tesla Model S90D as approved used. previous vehicle was an XF estate. needed the extra room over the model 3

Have had a few issues with the car since but the repair by the service center went smoothly. have a LED DLR thats failed and have a ranger coming next week to fix it on my drive.

Don't think i would have an EV that wasn't Tesla due to the superchargers, only ever seen 1 (of a bank of 8 chargers) out of action but regularly see 3rd party chargers that dont work.

Quality and fit + finish isnt up to the same level as the previous Jag, however that car still averaged 8 visits a year to the dealer for various issues - one of my main reasons for changing cars was extremely poor service from the dealer.

The acceleration of the Tesla is totally amazing, have had other fast cars in the past but nothing comes close.

EV musings - badbusdriver

Vauxhall Ampera or identical Chevrolet Volt would be an equally painless way to do that journey - with the benefit of a smooth electric drive powered by the petrol generator once the battery has been discharged. Totally overlooked cars which still beat most new PHEVS for range. Owners love them. Would still manage 55-60mpg over that long journey too.

Yes, but you could say the same about any hybrid. And a plug in hybrid would be the most useful of the lot, certainly if most journeys are short. The new Jazz, has a very clever system which includes a 'mode' which makes it work like the Ampera, that is to say the petrol engine works only as a generator to charge the battery.

EV musings - apdleam
Not really. Most PHEVs are good for only 20-22 miles real world (although a couple have come to market recently claiming they are good for 40 or so). Ampera does 40+ even now 8yrs after launch. Batteries barely deteriorate. Then it works as a serial hybrid once charge is depleted.
EV musings - notagoodname
I think EV’s are a great example of how subjective motoring is. A good friend has a Tesla Model X - its acceleration is rapid and it’s all very clever inside. However, once you’ve rapidly gone from 0-60 a few times and then a few more times more the downsides become apparent. Which? recently did a piece on them: 40% of owners of 0-3 year old cars had to get them repaired in the preceding year - that’s nearly double the average and means Tesla “is level pegging with Land Rover, the long-running veteran of awful reliability”. If I had the money to buy an amazing car I couldn’t, on principle, buy something as unreliable as a Land Rover. I find the ride quality poor on average A/B roads and would hate not having a manual gearbox. No doubt things will improve and of course EVs are the future - but I feel the early adopters are paying a lot for sub-standard kit.

Edited by notagoodname on 29/08/2020 at 10:53

 

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