any car - haggling - tbg

hello all

Below is a small explanation of the question,

What can I expect to get if I was to haggle on a price of a car with regards to screen price, 12 month warranty ( peace of mind for a short time ), and a trade in of a 15 year old car ( we buy any car say £400 )

I live near Norwich and I am looking at buying a used car for the first time in 12 years and in that time car sales places such as carshop , evan halshaw and hammonds have popped up with what seems higher volume car sales so theres been a few changes since i bought a car.

However before covid 19 came around we ( me and the better half ) were looking and spending 12 - 13k on a 3 ish year old family car and I was prepared to travel to relatives in the midlands and north west purely because of the larger selection they have but things have changed and we feel buying a car locally is the best option with regards keeping people safe at this time. However this now places lower limits on the cars available ( even with the above dealerships ) which I feel limits ( to a degree ) haggling options.

Because of covid 19 we have decided to lower our budget due job security issues to around 10k, although I have seen a car which would be ok for a few years for 8.5k which is an even nicer price at the moment. With the above dealers only offer 3 months warranty but at a cost ( around £200 per year ) as an extra where as main dealers offer 1 year but car price is higher . What can I expect to get , if anything?????

thank you for any help

tom

any car - haggling - badbusdriver

I think this is one of these 'how long is a piece of string' questions, there are too many variables for there to be a definitive answer.

A couple of points though, if you are concerned about job security, i'd be looking at cars up to around £5k(*). As long as you choose correctly, there is no reason at all why a car at this price level wouldn't last 5 years+. Something with a simple n/a petrol engine plus manual gearbox, like a 1.6 Focus (not the 1.0 Ecoboost). Not exciting, not going to impress your neighbours, but nice to drive, roomy enough, very reliable, and there are heaps to choose from. A look on Autotrader shows examples as young as 2014 available for £5-5.5k.

Other cars worth looking at in a lower price bracket, Mazda 3, Honda Civic, Toyota Auris, Kia Ceed, Hyundai i30.

Remember this is still going to be a significant step up from a £400 car and will give you a better financial cushion should the worst happen with jobs.

(*)That is assuming your current car is not still working. If it is, i'd hang on to it until such times as it doesn't.

any car - haggling - RT

How long is a piece of string? It all depends how high/low the screen price was pitched as well as the pressure, or lack of it, on the seller.

3 month warranty is useless - the Consumer Relations Act 2015 offers more protection than that and cannot be avoided by a trade seller.

any car - haggling - SLO76
Some dealers price up to offer discounts and heavy part exchange prices and others price more competitively but then offer few other incentives. Don’t focus on discounts focus on getting a good car at sensible money. Compare it to others on sale. If one identical car is £1000 dearer and you get £1000 off you’re no better off and you’ve had to work for it.

More important is getting the choice of car right so I’d give us a list of your requirements, rough search area and favoured models and we’ll take a look at what’s worthy of viewing nearby.
any car - haggling - Andrew-T

As always, SLO offers advice from the horse's mouth. As an ordinary punter, I would guess that you would get no advantage from trading in an almost worthless 15-y-o car. Buy without part-ex and you can haggle. Trade in and any deal will probably be based on the screen price as you have lost your leverage. The dealer will love giving you a tempting but illusory value for your old car, instead of a discount.

If it's a decent car, try to sell it privately, or for parts, or to WBAC. Depends whether you want the hassle.

any car - haggling - pd

Different dealers have different strategies. Some, if they want to sell a car for £7000 will mark it up at £7995 and the offer a £500 discount plus a £500 over allowance on your PX so the customer walks away thinking they've got a stonking deal.

Some one else may offer the same car at £6750, not budge on price or offer bottom book on the trade in but that may be the better deal.

Others make nothing on the car but rely on selling you an expensive finance deal to make their margin.

It is rare two used cars are the same. Different mileage, colour, spec, history, condition, options - all sorts of things. You can rarely compare directly.

any car - haggling - concrete

The essence of 'haggling' or negotiating is simple. Homework. You need to establish your ground before you move into the market. First you have a price point beyond which you will not go. That you can afford and are comfortable with. Stick to it. Then pick your model within the budget and trawl the website and trade press looking at similar models to get a good average price for the vehicle you want. When you see one on the forecourt you will have an idea if the price is pitched right, if not negotiate them down. Above all be prepared to walk away at any time. There are literally thousands of cars on the market. Stressing with a dealer over a car is not worth the candle. Go somewhere your custom is appreciated. A dealer, especially a main dealer will offer a better warranty and likely observe the consumer legislation than some independents. Do your homework first and the rest is fairly straight forward if you stick to your budget.

Cheers Concrete

any car - haggling - catsdad

I agree with concrete. Just a couple of points. Haggling can be enjoyable. Keep it pleasant and see if there is a deal to be done.

Also be prepared for all the extras they will try to add in as the deal approaches. Things like paint protection, GAP insurance, tyre insurance. Most on here would not recommend these at dealer prices but f nothing else you can use the time to work out what you need to seal the deal.

As other have said, be prepared to walk but do so pleasantly and leave your details. They might call you a day or two later with a better deal.

any car - haggling - tbg

Thanks for all the replies . I'm not necessarily after an amazing deal I just want a decent car at a decent price.

So are you saying if there's no trade in there's a better chance of a deal.

I've just got back from looking at 64plate grand picasso average mileage 2litre diesel , exclusive £8500 with a similar search on auto trader it seems on the cheap side. They would give me £300 for my car , £100 if list price and regas Aircon which seemed weak. The car drove nicely , some paint issues stone chips etc and iffy rear alloys ( only on the rear ) but not beyond what I would expect for 6 years old.

As for what we are looking for reliability would be nice , I prefer the diesel for the torque especially for where I live in North Norfolk ( near Norwich ) having gone from an old diesel with torque to an old petrol no torque I miss my torque , I'm now used to mpv's and the practicality they give with room for the kids and a decent boot. As for distance to travel to get a car I would rather it close to Norwich.

Again thanks for the help

any car - haggling - Andrew-T

So are you saying if there's no trade in there's a better chance of a deal.

I may be out-of-date, but that was always the rule of thumb. Your old car has no intrinsic value to a dealer, so he is doing you a favour 'buying' it from you. If he is keen to sell, in a straight purchase he should knock money off the screen price, which is always an amount from which a 'discount' can be safely deducted for 'cash'. It won't be, if you are offering an almost worthless part-ex.

Franchised dealers also have monthly quotas to meet, which may mean that they are keener to deal towards the end of the month. But under lockdown conditions these rules of thumb may have changed. Get out there and try your luck.

any car - haggling - Dogfuzz

Yes-it's all about homework. I always believe if you've done that -then the salesman is the one who makes the first move, not the customer.

Another point-always have a good look at a hi-spec vehicle as opposed to a standard version. you get all the specialist toys second hand that would have cost a fortune new,

And--avoid goodies that add to dealer profit like body care products, paintwork guarantees and 2/3 year servicing deals all of which are migrating from new to second hand sales these days.

any car - haggling - mcb100
From what I’m seeing, used car prices are holding up, simply because, until this week, dealers haven’t been able to buy in stock from auctions. So they’ve been holding firm on prices.
any car - haggling - tbg

So far. I was looking before covid but obviously had to stop. I was told by the dealers above at the time that they where struggling to get stock which I thought as something strange , somes ploy but then shortly after covid kicked off. It'll be interesting to see what happens to sales, prices and sales do. Do I wait a couple or four weeks although I'd rather asap as my old gas struggled this year with problems and I'm just waiting for it to go again

any car - haggling - mcb100
Just come across this on a closed motor industry Facebook group. The consensus is that it’s accurate, apart from an exaggerated commission figure.
Be nice, and don’t try to kid a kidder.
www.whatcar.com/news/confessions-of-a-car-salesman...n
any car - haggling - badbusdriver

Thanks for all the replies . I'm not necessarily after an amazing deal I just want a decent car at a decent price.

So are you saying if there's no trade in there's a better chance of a deal.

I've just got back from looking at 64plate grand picasso average mileage 2litre diesel , exclusive £8500 with a similar search on auto trader it seems on the cheap side. They would give me £300 for my car , £100 if list price and regas Aircon which seemed weak. The car drove nicely , some paint issues stone chips etc and iffy rear alloys ( only on the rear ) but not beyond what I would expect for 6 years old.

As for what we are looking for reliability would be nice , I prefer the diesel for the torque especially for where I live in North Norfolk ( near Norwich ) having gone from an old diesel with torque to an old petrol no torque I miss my torque , I'm now used to mpv's and the practicality they give with room for the kids and a decent boot. As for distance to travel to get a car I would rather it close to Norwich.

Again thanks for the help

While i can very well understand the appeal of diesel torque, and admire your going for an MPV rather than an SUV, I'd question the logic of going for a high spec 5 year old Citroen if reliability is high on your priority list. Citroen may be well known for comfort, and in the case of the Picasso/Grand Picasso, family friendly cars (windows deep enough that kids can actually see out of!), but reliability?. Sadly, not really.

any car - haggling - pd

The trade guides were originally predicting a 5-10% fall but in actual fact they have revised most models UP this month.

Dealer's are short on stock and there is very little coming through the usual sources so just at the moment there is no motivation whatsoever for them to drop prices. Demand is strong and they can't replace what they sell.

any car - haggling - tbg

Again thanks for the replies.

Just looked at the what car thing , it all make general sense although when he checks out a car and goes back and forth checking brakes and stuff looking for a smell, what's the smell. I'm assuming clutch.

As for Citroen reliability I know what you mean but what other choice is best for the price .the picasso I looked at today was nice and kit on it was great but not really needed as such I'm looking at a selection spec tomorrow from a main dealer. I'm not so keen on an SUV would prefer mpv.

Again thanks for the tips

any car - haggling - SLO76
Is this perchance the Citroen in question? I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200325874...3

This model of Picasso is prone to electrical issues as it ages and isn’t something I’d recommend. If however you absolutely must have one then the 2.0 diesel manual is the one to have and this is a one owner car with full history in the right spec and colour. It’ll be comfy and practical but it’ll be a regular visitor to your local auto spark over the years.


Spotted a few other options.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200221756...5

Petrol but the 1.4 turbo goes ok and it’s almost as good as a diesel on fuel but doesn’t suffer the usual emission control issues such as a clogged DPF. Reliable, spacious and comfortable plus great value used. This is an approved used example but I personally prefer the 1.4T SRi for it’s nicer looks and better spec. This one has everything you need though.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191123466...5

Like these, they’re good looking and very robust. Easy to sell on again too.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200219749...8

Main dealer approved used again. Same engine as the Citroen but better made car surrounding it with less likelihood of problems. Do not let yourself be talked into a Powershift auto version though, they’re appalling unreliable. The manual car is fine though.


I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200327876...0

More expensive but these hold their money better and are great on fuel, mine averaged 56mpg. Loads of room, well made and has a bit of class. Just make sure you test drive it from cold to feel for severe clutch judder. It’s a common problem but some are worse than others. A small amount is acceptable as long as it goes away after a short drive. Excellent engines, one of the few modern diesels I’ll recommend to anyone.



Edited by SLO76 on 03/06/2020 at 10:26

any car - haggling - SLO76
Spotted this too. Yes it’s not an MPV but this shape of Civic has a huge boot and plenty of room, it drives well, goes great and it’ll do 65mpg and cost nothing to tax. £8500 on an approved used example like this is solid gold as far as used cars go.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200226774...6

any car - haggling - SLO76
Just come across this on a closed motor industry Facebook group. The consensus is that it’s accurate, apart from an exaggerated commission figure. Be nice, and don’t try to kid a kidder. www.whatcar.com/news/confessions-of-a-car-salesman...n

Good wee article, quite accurate though the margins on used cars we typically had were higher. Today dealers pay stronger money for stock and rely on finance and add-ons to make the profit up. As a home trader I was rarely able to buy anything decent at auction as dealers were paying near retail money for them. I had no finance offering so couldn’t add profit there. I had many a horror test drive, terror from the back seat as awful drivers, unfamiliar with the vehicle and road tried to put it through its paces. I also often refused to sell a car to certain buyers, from the woman who wanted a Suzuki SJ410 for her 17yr old daughters first car and I believed it too unstable and dangerous for a first time driver to the punter who was too fussy on a cheap car. Other sales staff carried on regardless and suffered non-stop hassle in return.
any car - haggling - tbg

thank you so much for the help.

SLO thanks for the suggestions . And the citroen was the one I looked at and as you say about spec, engine etc it was nice especially the torque ( so nice to drive with torque ) but was not to keen on the gear stick , it felt clunky. I checked it against a picasso 1.6 diesel today 2 years younger 20k miles less still had what i thought was a short throw on the stick but felt nicer so not so keen on the 2.0 yesterday. not so keen on the 1.6 today for different reasons.

As for your suggestions I've looked at all those cars before covid and ruled most of them out mainly to small a boot for our needs on the tuscon, kuga, how ever the b***** fly in the ointment is the zafira as a car the zafira meets our needs on all fronts apart from what I believe is a crap diesel I did briefly consider the 1.4 as I have tried it in a mokka in a courtesy car and thought the engine ok but not the mokka itself but I did wonder what the 1.4 would be like in the bigger zaf. Is the zaf any good with reliability

again thanks so much for the help

any car - haggling - tbg

Just another thought, on this web site they do "real world " mpg 1.4 zaf 35mpg + £200 tax, picasso 50mpg + £20 tax even of numbers are slightly out it still equates to savings on the picasso into the hundreds over the petrol zaf. BUT I do keep hearing this theory can anyone explain in dumb English that I can understand

any car - haggling - SLO76
I found the Zafira perfectly acceptable if not exactly sports car like in performance. You’d need to try one to see. The 2.0 diesel has a poor reputation in the longterm but if you plan on getting shot before 70k it might do well enough if looked after by a knowledgable main dealer or genuine diesel specialist. The 1.6 diesel in the Picasso doesn’t have the best of reputations either so I’d favour a 2.0 diesel Zafira over one but for my uses the 1.4T would win.
any car - haggling - tbg

Interesting the 2litre diesel zaf over the 1.6 diesel pic , if the zaf is iffy after 70k does that mean the 1.6 pic is that bad , and I presume the 2.0 pic even better apart from electrics.

Again I assume 1.4 zaf more reliable than all the above and what of the petrol pics although I presume still iffy electrically

any car - haggling - badbusdriver

The trouble with modern diesels is all the emissions equipment, DPF filters and such like. This, in combination with the fact that most big SUV's, of the type favoured by (it seems) a large portion of the population, are both diesel, and used almost exclusively for short stop start journeys. This often results in big bills due to the DPF filter becoming clogged.

One of the few modern turbo diesels which seems not to suffer from the above problems is the 1.6 Honda unit, but of course Honda don't do MPV's anymore (in the UK anyway)

Of course P(etrol)PF filters are now starting to creep in, but unless buying new, it shouldn't be too much of a concern. And of course, some petrol engines also suffer from problems anyway thorugh design faults. But the 1.4t Vauxhall unit is not one of them, being a very reliable unit.

The PSA 1.6 turbo diesel is something i have looked into myself (for a small van), and from what i could find out online and talking to a dealer i know, the problems come from two areas. 1, when they first came out, the prescribed service intervals were too long, and 2, it is critical that the correct oil is used. If the car is serviced at more reasonable intervals, and if the correct oil is used, they are apparently very reliable. But how can you ascertain that if buying 2nd hand?. It is because of this i decided against buying avan with this engine.

As for the electrics, this isn't going to be a potential problem just on the 2.0, it is a Citroen thing!. It may appear to be worse, but only because the 2.0 is usually only in the top of the range trim (with more electrical goodies to go wrong), so nowt to do with the engine.

any car - haggling - tbg

Kind of what I thought with Citroen but I have no idea what's the best way to go. As I said above I don't understand this concept of a 1.4 petrol with higher tax being the same a a diesel which is cheaper to tax and better fuel economy over a period of at least 7 years apart from the increased possibility of X amount of trips to get it fixed because it a diesel \ Citroen

any car - haggling - up north

That was an interesting article. Sadly if you look around the forecourt of dealerships you'll see most cars have recent scratches down to the metal. Many times I have had cars serviced and they come back the same. It does make you wonder at their care and attention as they will knock your trade in down for minor marks then put the same on the forecourt the next day £2.5 k above what they gave and within a week it will be scratched to the bare metal! My recent experience.

Buying a car, always make contact by email...then you have answers in writing if things go wrong. They'd rather phone, but have to respond if you keep to email.

A guy at webuyanycar told me the car they never have problems with is the Skoda Fabia, though I realise it isn't what you are after. Have had issues with recent Mazda s and a new fiesta, Kia and Hyundai would be my choice of manufacturer!

any car - haggling - pd

PSA electrics are no worse than anyone else's and better than some (particularly some German marques I can think of). Obviously they can have issues but so can every other type of car.

Edited by pd on 04/06/2020 at 09:33

any car - haggling - badbusdriver

Kind of what I thought with Citroen but I have no idea what's the best way to go. As I said above I don't understand this concept of a 1.4 petrol with higher tax being the same a a diesel which is cheaper to tax and better fuel economy over a period of at least 7 years apart from the increased possibility of X amount of trips to get it fixed because it a diesel \ Citroen

This is where it eventually boils down to you. How much of a risk do you feel it is buying diesel?, buying a Citroen?. How lucky do you feel?. Also, it is one thing considering the reliability of a 5 year old Citroen but you seem to be intending to run it for 7 years, by which time the car will be 12 year old Citroen!. Also it comes down to whether or not you are prepared to compromise on what you want for better long term prospects, because unless you actually need a car like the Grand picasso, it is a personal choice based on what you like from a car.

Regarding the road tax. Yes, £180 isn't to be sniffed at, but in the grand scheme of things, over the course of a year, that is only £15 per month.

The fuel costs for the examples you give mean the Zaf would use around £360 more over 10k miles. So yes that is mounting up!. But, because the modern diesel is so complicated, should anything big go wrong, it will undoubtably wipe out that savings and quite a bit more!.

Going back to the issue of compromise. You have said you like the Grand Picasso, at least in part, due to the big boot. Assuming that you don't actually need 7 seats, that boot has a volume of 645 litres (with the 3rd row folded). Earlier, SLO posted a link to a Honda Civic hatchback. These have a decent sized boot for a car of that type at 477 litres, but there is also an estate version. This has a boot capacity of 624 litres, only a little less than the Grand Picasso in 5 seat mode. In addition, as mentioned earlier, it seems to be much more reliable than most modern diesels (Honda's are generally amongst the most reliable cars on the road anyway), it has exceptional efficiency, comfort and refinment.

But like i said at the start, ultimately this is your decision!.

any car - haggling - tbg

Thanks for that , I've been checking some stuff out , it would seem a dpf if all is good will last about 100k with a replacement price of between £1000 and £3500 ( if that is still the case )so no matter when if it goes wrong early or lasts to 100k you are still looking at a large bill.

Is this the same with the 1.6 diesel honda

Also if the above replacement price correct won't this effectively make diesel cars end of life at 100k which not far from the same time with cambelts etc thus makeing them almost to expensive to fix.

Also interesting what is said about PSA electronic stuff not being any worse than others .

Also I'm currently looking into the 1.4t petrol zafira

any car - haggling - tbg

Forgot to say , I've looked looked at the civic estate for the above reasons but read somewhere seats don't low enough and sure enough when I tried it ,it was all wrong so not an option unfortunately. Boot size is one thing I'm after not 7 seats

any car - haggling - pd

Lots of DPF last the life of the car and well over 100k. Often 200k or more. For the majority of drivers and cars they are not an issue.

However, if you do lots of short, urban journeys without any longer ones interspersing a petrol may well still suit you better. Regardless of the DPF diesels do not tend to show their mpg advantage in such use and the petrols warm up faster.

any car - haggling - Big John

Probably get flamed for suggesting a VAG car but a Skoda Octavia has a huge boot. Last November I managed to help my son find a 2016 1.2tsi Skoda Octavia with only 19k miles on for under £8k – just over 3 years old at the time. This took lots and lots of research and effort however it’s been a fabulous car thus far. The petrol fuel consumption has been great as well (er when he could travel!) - usually averaging over 50mpg on long motorway runs.

I was suspicious of the low mileage but when our local independent serviced it recently they said that the excellent condition of everything backed this up.

The effectively worthless (to the dealer) trade in should be just about ignored. A dealer might offer you a token gesture to take it off your hands to avoid you having to sell / dispose of it - or they might give you an attractive offer but short change you on any discount that could be available if you didn't trade a car in.

In short - research, research , research. Go and have a look at a few. I was surprised at the condition of some cars especially interiors and boots. Also when you do get a deal ignore all the extra's you'll be bombarded with - and try and avoid the extra "admin fee" some seem to add these days, I'm sure this should be illegal as it doesn't show on adverts!

Edited by Big John on 06/06/2020 at 21:18

any car - haggling - tbg

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not going to trade in. I've researched cars left right and centre and still find it difficult to decide what I want there's so much contradictory advice around and horror stories about various bits to look out for on this car that car and so I'll try just to find a mode ground from an obvious point of view eg honda over Citroen . Also the 1.4 zafira has been mentioned so I'll look at that, although I'd prefer a mpv I will also look at decent sized estates

any car - haggling - Andrew-T

Don't forget that there are all these stats saying which cars have which faults, etc,etc. Modern cars are pretty reliable, so you may be comparing (say) 98% reliability with 98.5%. At the end of the day you are buying one example of one model, so it boils down to finding one which has been reasonably looked after, with some proof of maintenance, and which meets your personal needs fairly economically. If it's more than 3 years old you will be able to see its MoT history online. Don't be too overawed by reliability surveys.

any car - haggling - tbg

Just an update , I'm looking at petrol zafira to see if that's any good and also I looked at a car last week and talked about price and the best he could do was £200 of price and an extra £100 on my trade (that's before I decided not to trade in ) it's now listed at £500 of the price

any car - haggling - catsdad

I bought from a big dealership last year and the salesmen there had limited discretion on pricing. The sticker price was controlled by a specialist team who monitored the market and sales and adjusted prices accordingly. So what you saw may be that process in action.

Edited by catsdad on 08/06/2020 at 17:29

 

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