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Focus MK2 and Pedugeot 406 were badly designed compared with their predecessors and in realtion to most they're bad. If they'd been designed properly I'd have had one or the other. Peugeot always used to make great estates, particularly the 305 and 406. Citroen C5, the ungainly one, was very good. CX, BX and GS/GSA too. Laguna MK1 was great. First Focus brilliant, just like 305/405. IIRC Peugeot 504 and 505 were great as estates and as cars to drive.
Of recent cars the Civic is one of the best, the magic seats are an outstanding invention and the seats fold completely flat, unlike some, stand up Mazda, for claiming their seats (in the cars I've seen) fold flat. Flat is flat, not sloping!
For an estate to be great it has to be fit for purpose. Too many fail on that front, now more a lifestyle vehicle than a proper estate, of course IMO.
Edited by Trilogy. on 02/05/2020 at 14:32
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It's customers' laziness that has created the lifestye estate. You used to lift the cushion up and forward and then lower the seatback - and you got a flat floor. Now people just want to lower the seatback on to the cushion (or even just pull levers in the boot).
Personally I don't mind it not being quite flat, as long as there isn't a lip between boot space and lowered seatback.
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Avant, for me a lifestyle estate is to do with shape and lack of capacity rather then how the seat folds. The ultimate seat folding arrangement, for the lazy, and the rest of us, was the Renault 25 hatchback. As you lifted the cushion the backrest moved into the cushion's void. The cushion ended up vertical to protect the front seats from items in the load space.
The ultimate small estate for me is a MK1 Focus ST170. Barring rust and reliability issues a CX would be my ultimate estate. Way back in around 1981 such an estate made a lasting impression. The best ride in the business combined with quick steering, powerful brakes, space age dashboard with rotating speedometer.and the most capacious load area you could wish for provided the ultimate estate. As a runner up, a W124 300TE Mercedes from around 1990-1992, when they were still built properly.
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I have fond memories of our 1983 Passat GL5 estate with its superb Audi 5 cylinder engine. Ideal for our active young family. Manual gearbox with a long legged 5th gear and an 'econometer' to encourage a light right foot. Bought for £5,500 in 1984 with 13,000 miles o the clock, traded in at 192,000miles (3.1p per mile depreciation over ten years of ownership) plus £13,000 for a nearly new 1994 Passat 2.0GL auto estate which gave us another ten years and over 230,000 miles - a good car but I didn't like it as much as the old GL5. After that, our X reg Focus estate bought in 2004 - and stlll going strong. Just three estates for thirty five years of family motoring. All self-serviced as per my economical schedule .;-)
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“ I have fond memories of our 1983 Passat GL5 estate with its superb Audi 5 cylinder engine.“
Liked them.
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It's customers' laziness that has created the lifestye estate. You used to lift the cushion up and forward and then lower the seatback - and you got a flat floor. Now people just want to lower the seatback on to the cushion (or even just pull levers in the boot).
Personally I don't mind it not being quite flat, as long as there isn't a lip between boot space and lowered seatback.
It's customers' laziness that has created the lifestye estate. You used to lift the cushion up and forward and then lower the seatback - and you got a flat floor. Now people just want to lower the seatback on to the cushion (or even just pull levers in the boot).
Personally I don't mind it not being quite flat, as long as there isn't a lip between boot space and lowered seatback.
...and flipping the seat bases up created an impromptu bulkhead of sorts, which reduced the chances of cargo joining you in the front of the car under heavy braking.
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If you like big estates watch this Chrysler commercial from 1973, b***** marvellous! youtu.be/9zq_6NtNzpg
I'd love one of those as my family taxi. Just need oil prices to get a bit cheaper.
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I must have done nigh on a million miles in Mondeo estates, and a further 350,000 in E Class estates. It's a cliche, but all were bulletproof and capable in all ways. Would have either again in a heartbeat.
Punctuated by Vovos ( 750s and 850s ) ok, but never really engaged with them. A Xantia, quite nice but gave me backache. An Espace, huge mistake. A Galaxy, quite nice actually. A BMW 5 series, again quite nice, but not in the same league as an E. An Audi A4 Avant, again ok, but nose heavy handling.
All things being equal, I'm going to stick with E Class estates. Just do everything, very well, for a long time.
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A vote for our 1983 Carlton estate. 1.8 litre petrol, 38mpg on a run and a great motorway cruiser. Acres of square space inside for our retriever and baby effects. Bought it with 43,000 on the clock in 1986 for £3995 and moved it on in 1991 with 93,000 on the clock, heavy oil consumption and an annoyingly unreliable automatic choke. But all the while it was good it was great. Coming from a dreadful Cortina estate (a lemon that I take full responsibility for buying) we thought we were in a Rolls Royce. It was the first car we’d owned that had a 5 speed gearbox, a rev counter, a height adjustable driver’s seat, power steering, a sunroof and a radio/cassette player that was built into the dash rather than screwed underneath on a metal bracket contraption. It also had a reassuring Germanic clunk as you closed the doors.
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If you like big estates watch this Chrysler commercial from 1973, b***** marvellous! youtu.be/9zq_6NtNzpg
That is a decent size estate. No difficulty carrying a fridge in the back. Look at those steel bumpers. Don't you mess with me mate! Where can I buy a new one now?
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For me...I think I would always come back to a Volvo.
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Only ever had one estate. Renault 21 Savanna bought at 2 years old and 60k miles. Stayed reliable almost to the end, when I got rid at 100k. It was never a ball of fire with only the 1.7 petrol engine. Very comfortable ride though with soft seats, soft suspension and possibly the longest wheelbase of any estate at the time. Also one of the most spacious inside. I remember taking a double bed to the tip. Both halves of the divan inside and the mattress tied to the roof - standard roof rails and rubber strips on the roof negating the need for a rack.
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Renault 21 Savanna bought at 2 years old and 60k miles. Stayed reliable almost to the end, when I got rid at 100k. It was never a ball of fire with only the 1.7 petrol engine. Very comfortable ride though with soft seats, soft suspension and possibly the longest wheelbase of any estate at the time. Also one of the most spacious inside. I remember taking a double bed to the tip. Both halves of the divan inside and the mattress tied to the roof - standard roof rails and rubber strips on the roof negating the need for a rack.
Well recalled, i had one with the 2068cc Diesel, a good car all round, cavernous, soft riding with comfy seats but could corner at silly speeds without any drama over any surface, unlike the concrete sprung things of today that 'hop' over our crater littered roads, had done 113k when i bought it but with a full history.
They had dim dip too, something that should be standard instead of these daft blinding fairy lights.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/05/2020 at 12:51
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Renault 21 Savanna bought at 2 years old and 60k miles. Stayed reliable almost to the end, when I got rid at 100k. It was never a ball of fire with only the 1.7 petrol engine. Very comfortable ride though with soft seats, soft suspension and possibly the longest wheelbase of any estate at the time. Also one of the most spacious inside. I remember taking a double bed to the tip. Both halves of the divan inside and the mattress tied to the roof - standard roof rails and rubber strips on the roof negating the need for a rack.
Well recalled, i had one with the 2068cc Diesel, a good car all round, cavernous, soft riding with comfy seats but could corner at silly speeds without any drama over any surface, unlike the concrete sprung things of today that 'hop' over our crater littered roads, had done 113k when i bought it but with a full history.
They had dim dip too, something that should be standard instead of these daft blinding fairy lights.
Ha dim dip, that was one that got away.
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Only ever had one estate. Renault 21 Savanna bought at 2 years old and 60k miles. Stayed reliable almost to the end, when I got rid at 100k. It was never a ball of fire with only the 1.7 petrol engine. Very comfortable ride though with soft seats, soft suspension and possibly the longest wheelbase of any estate at the time. Also one of the most spacious inside. I remember taking a double bed to the tip. Both halves of the divan inside and the mattress tied to the roof - standard roof rails and rubber strips on the roof negating the need for a rack.
Many years ago a friend bought a petrol version with 100,000 miles on it for £2,000. Lovely car to be a passenger in, hugely capacious, he kept it for several years.
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Good to drive too - at least mine was, a 2.0 petrol We had four children and that was one of the few cars available with 7 seats in those days (1980s). I only had it for two years as I moved jobs.
I had an Espace then, again a 2.0 and also much better to drive than one might have imagined.
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The original Espace is now quite sort after. No doubt many met an untimely fate in 2009. Let's hope if the scheme is resurrected someone puts more thought into it so lots of good cars aren't scrapped while having plenty of life remaining.
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I quite liked the R21, they were very comfy big things and lasted well. Later cars were quite well screwed together and the taxi trade liked the old 1870cc diesels. Slow things with 65bhp but mechanically tough and very comfy.
I flogged a late 2.0 GTX auto many years back and it was a lovely old thing to drive. b***** hard work to sell though and zero profit was made.,
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If my Espace had been a horse, I would have shot it. It came home on the back of a recovery truck 16 times in the two years I had the wretched thing. Worst car I've ever had.
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Surprised that nobody has mentioned Opel/Vauhall (oops, missed senexdriver). Imo, like Volvo & Mercedes they understood estates & fitted them with the extra bits that made them even more practical e.g. front passenger seats where the backs folded forward as well for long loads & you only needed to look at the shed-like back of a Vectra D estate to understand it's load capacity. I loved my Carlton & Omega estates where handling was more enjoyable than modern fwd ones.
Sadly, not always the most reliable electrically though ...
I seem to recall that I read recently that the Insignia estate is being killed.
Edited by Heidfirst on 04/05/2020 at 18:14
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Vectra estate was excellent, longer wheelbase than the saloon, the only problem when they were painted black is they looked like they should be carrying a coffin with 2 solemn looking chaps sat up front sporting top hats.
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