Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car!

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 10:03
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

The words reliable and automatic seem to be at odds in the new modern gearboxes, hence why I would like to chose this car carefully.

I am no automatic gearbox wizard but from what I understand generally..


Torque Converter gearboxes are the most reliable and least economical.

Anything mech or tipotronic are unreliable and are manual cars with auto clutches.

CVT boxes are somewhere in the middle, good economy with decent reliability.

That being said I have narrowed down my choices but would like your guidance.


Honda Jazz 2005- TC or CVT ( are these boxes reliable?) Dont seem good at higher speeds
Suzuki Swift - Tc box and reliable?

Nissan note - not sure how these compare to the Jazz. Are they reliable and good on the motorway?
BMW 320i 170 bhp, has decent fuel economy.

Is there any other cars you would recommend?

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 11:06
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - badbusdriver

Interesting selection, Honda Jazz, Suzuki Swift, Nissan Note, and, er, BMW 320?!?

Firstly, CVT is generally just as reliable as torque converter auto as long as any CVT fluid changes are done as required. The exception to this is Nissan, who's CVT transmissions seem to have a poor reputation.

Tipitronic is a very much misused term these days. Porsche came up with the name for use on a torque converter auto which had the option for manual changes. This was also the case for various other brands, but over the years, the term started to be used on cars with an automated manual. So instead of a kneejerk reaction against any car advertised as being 'tiptronic', find out if it actually is first, as a 'proper' tiptronic is no less reliable than any other torque converter auto.

CVT's are almost always described in derogatory terms by the motoring press. Common themes are, 'if you put the foot down, it is all noise and no action', or 'mooing noise', or lots of high revs. I can't comment on all CVT's, but since 2017 we have had a current shape Honda Jazz with a CVT. I was a bit sceptical because of the motoring press, but (perhaps unsurprisingly) most of the criticisms are a load of borrocks. No, it is no rocketship, with 102bhp and a distinct lack of torque. But, it is surprisingly quick given its spec, and is very capable of overtaking slower moving traffic being very responsive indeed. At main road speeds, on the flat, the revs sit very low, but when hills are involved it does get a bit revvy, but this has nothing to do with it being a CVT, this is because its peak torque is at 5000rpm. As for the so called mooing noise, even if you did find the thought of this offputting, it is more a trait of older CVT's where there really is no set gear, so the revs would gently go up and down, not seeming to be related to your speed. But on modern CVT's like the our Jazz and the Yaris, they are electronically 'stepped' to make them feel like they have 7 seperate gears, so you don't get this mooing sensation.

The Honda Jazz has never been available with a torque converter auto. The first gen cars (2001-2008) used a CVT and are fantastically reliable. The pre facelift second gen cars (2008-2011) used the i-shift automated manual, this should be avoided. Post facelift second gen cars right up to current versions, all use the CVT and assuming the CVT fluid has been changed asd required, will give no trouble.

Suzuki Swift is a torque converter auto and is very reliable.

Nissan Note, well first gen cars (2006-2013) used a 1.6 petrol with a torque converter auto and are very reliable. Second gen cars used a (supercharged) 1.2 petrol with a CVT and, should be avoided.

The BMW is a very odd choice amongst these other sensible reliable small cars. Frankly, without knowing how much money you plan to spend, i wouldn't touch it. And while it may offer decent MPG under certain circumstances, under most, it will be much less efficient than your other choices. BMW's on the whole, are actually not that reliable, especially 4 cyl petrol or diesel models, so depending on age, that could well include a 320.

Other choices?, sticking with the approx sizes of your first three choices:

Toyota Yaris (as long as it is not the MMT automated manual).

Ford Fiesta sixth gen, pre facelift (2008-2013) 1.4 petrol. Post facelift they brough in the infamous 'powershift' automated manual.

Ford Fusion 1.6 petrol (earlier 1.4 auto's used the durashift automated manual)

Mazda 2 (all torque converter)

Kia Rio (torque converter up to the current models)

Hyundai i20 (as above)

A little bigger?,

Ford Focus second gen, pre or post facelift (2004-2011) 1.6 or 2.0 petrol. Third gen uses poweshift.

Mazda 3 (all torque converter, all good)

Honda Civic as long as is not the i-shift automated manual. So seventh and eighth gen (up to circa 2009), then ninth gen (2012) onwards.

Toyota Auris as long as you avoid the MMT automated manual, not sure actual dates, but the 2013 > second gen cars are all CVT.

Kia Ceed (torque converter up to late 2016)

Hyundai i30 (torque converter up to early 2015)

Edited by badbusdriver on 12/01/2020 at 11:07

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 11:55
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - daveyjp

Any Toyota with a CVT box is worth looking at.

On the list of cars with over 250,000 miles on the clock, third place is the Prius.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:09
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Current KIA Picanto has a torque convertor gearbox. SWMBO has a manual 2019 Picanto 3. More room than I need when driving. I'm 6' 1". Note the 2017 Picanto on, is larger inside. Recognisable by the creased pressing around the wheel arches. Reliable -yup- 7 year warranty and I love driving it.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:15
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - John F

Surprising that bbd's lengthy post above omits the various Peugeot models with a 'tiptronic' type auto box. As bbd says, 'tiptronic' is a Porsche trade name invention applied to the ubiquitous ZF gearboxes found in umpteen different cars (Astons, BMWs, JLRs, VW/Audis..). Peugeot's EAT6, and most recently EAT8 autos are Aisin in origin, and TC 'tiptronic' in nature, like the ZF box its design is apparently based on. I would include the now old model Peugeot 2008 on the above list if you are looking for a reliable auto powertrain.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 12:57
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Metropolis.
Many good suggestions here, and the gearboxes themselves are reliable for the most part, although Honda proprietary gearboxes do still have a terrible reputation in the States. That aside, I would advise caution in recommending all t/c automatics, especially in compact cars. This is because often the gearbox cooler travels through the main engine radiator and as these age they have a tendency to crack or corrode and you get ATF mayonnaise with catastrophic results for engine and gearbox. I don’t know the situation on the above cars, but I do recall this being an issue on otherwise reliable Aisin units fitted to Vauxhall Astras.
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Sun 12 Jan 2020 13:15
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

The cvts in the 05 jazz cars are unreliable?

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 17:03
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - madf

The cvts in the 05 jazz cars are unreliable?

They need to have CVT oil changed regualrly If not, they judder on driving from standing starts.. The mechanical clutch wears..

The post 2011 CVTs are very reliable..

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 17:33
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Engineer Andy

One newer feature of CVT-equipped cars is the normal 1st gear and then a CVT, as in the latest Corolla with the 2.0 hybrid engine. Form what I've seen of reviews (mainly from the US and Canada), it appears to do a much better job with less of the horrible droning, and also has the artifical 'stepped' type CVT set up.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 23:15
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

So 2011 Jazzs have more reliable transmission than the earlier model?

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Mon 13 Jan 2020 11:34
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - madf

So 2011 Jazzs have more reliable transmission than the earlier model?

POST 2011 Jazz? Yes.

Do NOT Buy any Jazz fitted with the automated manual gearbox made 2009-2011 . It is jerky..and prone to issues.

The post 2011 jazz has a CVT and gearchnages are imperceptible on the move.. You cannot feel them at all. The only time you can feel anything is when coasting sub 15mph up to ajunction/set of lights and the CVT can change down to 1st gear at around 5mph and you can feel a very slight jolt..

(I have a 2012 Jazz CVT which has been faultless from new)).

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 13:20
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - badbusdriver

Current KIA Picanto has a torque convertor gearbox. SWMBO has a manual 2019 Picanto 3. More room than I need when driving. I'm 6' 1". Note the 2017 Picanto on, is larger inside. Recognisable by the creased pressing around the wheel arches. Reliable -yup- 7 year warranty and I love driving it.

The Picanto and sister car, the Hyundai i10 will be changing to an automated manual soon. Not 100% sure, but i think this will be a single clutch type, as is used in most others in the 'city car' class. Once this happens, if you want an auto city car, but don't want an automated manual, your only option will be the Mitsubishi Mirage (CVT)!.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 13:24
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - badbusdriver

The cvts in the 05 jazz cars are unreliable?

No, quite the opposite.

I did say that earlier.

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Mon 13 Jan 2020 09:00
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - expat
This is because often the gearbox cooler travels through the main engine radiator and as these age they have a tendency to crack or corrode and you get ATF mayonnaise with catastrophic results for engine and gearbox. I don’t know the situation on the above cars, but I do recall this being an issue on otherwise reliable Aisin units fitted to Vauxhall Astras.

That is a very good point. The way round that problem is to fit an after market external transmission oil cooler. I did that on my Ford Falcon (I am in Australia) for that very reason. It cost me around A$300 fitted. Money well spent if you intend keeping the car in the long run.

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Sun 12 Jan 2020 23:14
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

Thanks for your help, we have narrowed it down to suzuki swift Tc transmission or Honda jazz cvt. Which would you go for? What's pros and cons?

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Mon 13 Jan 2020 09:02
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - badbusdriver

Thanks for your help, we have narrowed it down to suzuki swift Tc transmission or Honda jazz cvt. Which would you go for? What's pros and cons?

As they are both very reliable, it really depends on what you need. The trump card for the Jazz is space and versatility, it has much more rear seat space than the Swift and with the seats folded down (completely flat, not with a step or slope like most cars), it turns into a proper little van. The boot itself is the biggest in class, closer in volume (and in some cases, bigger) to cars from the next size up, like a Golf or Focus. Also, with the 'magic' rear seats, you can lift up the bases against the backrest to make a seperate spacious load area behind the front seats.

The Suzuki is a far more conventional supermini with adequate but by no means class leading space. It manages to avoid being too cramped by being quite tall (both it and the Jazz are more than 1.5m tall). The boot was around the smallest in class. But it is a more youthful looking car (to what extent depends on spec/colour), and overall is more fun to drive.

Interior trim quality is probably slightly higher on the Jazz, but in both, this is more of the 'hard wearing' variety than the soft touch plastics on a Polo.

For economy, i'd guess the Jazz to give better MPG by way of its more efficient CVT transmission. But after looking at some figures, there doesn't seem to be much in it.

Edited by badbusdriver on 13/01/2020 at 09:07

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Fri 31 Jan 2020 21:58
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

Hi, we sold the focus, it was too thirsty. Which of these cars are the least thirsty?

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Fri 31 Jan 2020 23:50
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - SLO76

Hi, we sold the focus, it was too thirsty. Which of these cars are the least thirsty?

I assume you’re doing a big mileage then? A quick calculation shows that if you’re doing a fairly typical mileage for a small automatic car say 7,000 a year and assuming you manage to find another reliable small auto that can achieve 42mpg (a Jazz CVT) then you’ll save all of £5.77 a week which was not worthy of taking the gamble of getting rid of the reliable car you knew to get another you don’t. Now that extra 10mpg is going to be tough to achieve, really most small torque converter autos aren’t that good with most really only adding a few mpg to the 30-32mpg figure the Focus should average. A Fiesta or Fusion auto for example will struggle to get much beyond mid to high 30’s day to day and you’re savings will be peanuts. At this money reliability is the number one priority, a few extra mpg will be more than wiped out by a gearbox failure which is a strong possibility on an early Jazz CVT or a Yaris MMT. I think you’ve been unwise here.

Edited by SLO76 on 31/01/2020 at 23:54

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Sat 1 Feb 2020 00:17
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - SLO76
Further to my other reply I have found a Jazz CVT nearby at £2,495 but assuming an annual mileage of 7k p/a and assuming you got your £1,000 back on the Focus the extra £1,500 this will cost will take over 5yrs to repay itself and that’s assuming the gearbox holds out that long.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200128668...6


Here’s another worthy. It’s a first gen Yaris and uses a conventional torque converter transmission which is very robust. Again it’ll take years to repay the extra money assuming it lasts and at this age you’ll need to be sure it’s not rotten underneath.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200127661...6



Edited by SLO76 on 01/02/2020 at 00:20

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Mon 13 Jan 2020 10:35
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - SLO76
What’s your budget and where roughly are you?
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Mon 13 Jan 2020 12:33
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

Nottingham, will buy this week. 3k max budget. Looking ideally for 2.5

Edited by Reggiebolt on 13/01/2020 at 12:35

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Mon 13 Jan 2020 13:19
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - badbusdriver

Nottingham, will buy this week. 3k max budget. Looking ideally for 2.5

I didn't realise your budget was quite that low. Because of this, it would be wise to open up your list of candidates. But i have had a look on Autotrader, here is what i found not too far away.

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191217539...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191202496...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191202496...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191211524...1

Opening up your options a bit more, i found these which i'd be happy enough to have as an altenative to the Jazz or Swift. In no particular order,

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191125473...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190823145...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200108592...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190721030...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190926264...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20200109598...1

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191113432...1

I have not checked the MOT history of any of the above, you can do so here, www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

Edited by badbusdriver on 13/01/2020 at 13:21

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Mon 13 Jan 2020 13:19
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - SLO76
At this money I favour bypassing the smaller dealers and buying direct from the current owner. Seeing their home and meeting them face to face will tell you plenty about them and their attitude to maintenance and how healthy their finances are. You’ll only get the usual lies from a dealer “One little old lady owner” etc etc when 99% of the time the car will be auction bought and they’ve no clue who had it, Mad Max or little Miss Marple.

I spotted a few nearby worthy of a look.


This model of Fiesta uses a robust Yamaha designed engine and a simple torque converter gearbox. Terrible advert with poor picture but means it’s certainly not a fly trader.


www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/ford-fiesta...l

These are great cheap autos. Very tough and very practical. Seen a few at dealers but they want £3k plus.

www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/honda-civic...l



Dealer car so dealer and little room to negotiate but these are as per the Fiesta but more likely to have had an elderly owner and be gently driven.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191125473...9


I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20191121460...6



I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190906193...9


Be wary of gearbox issues on the Mk I Jazz CVT. Fluid changes are all too often ignored and they’re not as tough as many would have you believe. Otherwise good though.

I just found a great car on Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190529844...1

Edited by SLO76 on 13/01/2020 at 13:28

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Tue 14 Jan 2020 10:24
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

Thank you, found a early ford locally for 1k. Wife is happy and we have some money spare, will get a full service and hopefully we get 1/2 years hassle free motoring.

Thank you all for the help.

Edited by Reggiebolt on 14/01/2020 at 10:32

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Tue 14 Jan 2020 11:32
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - SLO76

Thank you, found a early ford locally for 1k. Wife is happy and we have some money spare, will get a full service and hopefully we get 1/2 years hassle free motoring.

Thank you all for the help.

Fingers crossed and best wishes. Keep us informed about it, we’re always interested in cheap car challenges.
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Wed 15 Jan 2020 12:32
Honda Jazz - Wife needs reliable, economical automatic car! - Reggiebolt

Just an update, it is a 1.6 focus 07. I am surprised at how comfortable the ride is, he feels firm planted and yet comfortbale not harsh. The engine feels good enough, it doesnt have massive pull.

Interior is bland but doesnt squeak, MPG on teh motorway is around 38-40. Stop start is around 25-30.

Gearbox feels solid

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