Car tax rip off charges!

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Sat 24 Aug 2019 17:51
Car tax rip off charges! - NAthan smith
Looking at these ridiculous charges from April 2017 and I have one question. Can you get a 2017 car (over £40k new) on a 17 plate registered on the 31/03/2017? This would if possible make the car emitting 120 co2 only £30, instead of £450 a year to tax?
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Sat 24 Aug 2019 17:58
Car tax rip off charges! - gordonbennet

These things have a way of balancing themselves out, the market soon puts the correct values on vehicles, ie pre March 06 high rate cars being considerably cheaper to buy than those regd after March but identical vehicles.

At least with the after 2017 changes, the vehicle will revert to a sensible VED rate once it comes of age, no such light at the end of the tunnel for high rated vehicles regd 2006 to 2017.

It'll all change in due course anyway, once enough electric cars are bought and the govt twigs its losing out on £billions in lost fuel duty let alone VED....the push for smart meters should give a clue where this is heading.

Edited by gordonbennet on 24/08/2019 at 17:59

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Sat 24 Aug 2019 18:11
Car tax rip off charges! - NAthan smith

These things have a way of balancing themselves out, the market soon puts the correct values on vehicles, ie pre March 06 high rate cars being considerably cheaper to buy than those regd after March but identical vehicles.

At least with the after 2017 changes, the vehicle will revert to a sensible VED rate once it comes of age, no such light at the end of the tunnel for high rated vehicles regd 2006 to 2017.

It'll all change in due course anyway, once enough electric cars are bought and the govt twigs its losing out on £billions in lost fuel duty let alone VED....the push for smart meters should give a clue where this is heading.

The domination of electrical vehicles is a long way off yet. I also read that at present it’s inky pure electric vehicles that are exempt and not even hybrids. I am wanting to pay £30 a year as opposed to £450 just because of a day or two in the registration date
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Sat 24 Aug 2019 18:28
Car tax rip off charges! - gordonbennet
I am wanting to pay £30 a year as opposed to £450 just because of a day or two in the registration date

No problem then, just find the car regd at the right time, unfortunately the selling dealer will know the car regd on the right dates is worth a lot more, so the cost to buy and the saved VED's will more than likely balance out...we had a similar decision when buying the 2008 Forester XT, which carries £550 VED, bought a lot cheaper than it should have been so the extra £200 per year on VED (had it been a pre March 06 model) is already saved as it were for the next decade.

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Sat 24 Aug 2019 21:46
Car tax rip off charges! - Smileyman

bigger problem is the impending introduction of speed limiters to cars, I can see a rush of purchases to have vehicles before the change of the law. It seems that Brexit won't save us from this version of big brother (just waiting for the first accident caused by driver being unable to accelerate to safety, hope no-one is injured)

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Sat 24 Aug 2019 21:56
Car tax rip off charges! - Zippy123

(just waiting for the first accident caused by driver being unable to accelerate to safety, hope no-one is injured)

The righteous lot will suggest that they were probably not driving at a speed that was suitable for the situation.

In their minds, there is no such thing as an accident - that suggests no one was at fault and they like to point a finger of blame - especially when that blame can be pointed away from themselves.

Edited by Zippy123 on 24/08/2019 at 21:56

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 00:34
Car tax rip off charges! - alan1302

bigger problem is the impending introduction of speed limiters to cars, I can see a rush of purchases to have vehicles before the change of the law. It seems that Brexit won't save us from this version of big brother (just waiting for the first accident caused by driver being unable to accelerate to safety, hope no-one is injured)

Except the speed limiters that are planned can be over ridden by putting your foot on the accelerator so why would you not be able to accelerate?

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 08:39
Car tax rip off charges! - gordonbennet

Except the speed limiters that are planned can be over ridden by putting your foot on the accelerator so why would you not be able to accelerate?

Er, speed limiters are not able to be overridden, when they give softening up spiel about such things it doesn't always tell the whole story.

Lorry speed limiters went in over 20 years ago, apart from illegal tampering (which carries serious penalties up to and including the loss of an operators licence), they are not and have never been able to be overridden by the person behind the wheel, and those prepared to alter them at calibration premises won't be in business for long, or free, when found out.

Those vehicles running without a working speed limiter stick out like a sore thumb, making them an easy target for the enforcement agencies...and don't for one minute think it will be the old bill alone policing this, GPS is going to feature in due course, the DVSA enforcement people know these systems inside out, it will be licence revoking time as well as massive fines and likely custodial sentence for those who doctor or by pass fitted limiters, they take this stuff seriously.

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 09:14
Car tax rip off charges! - snufflegrunt

You can only over-ride them when you first buy them, then will come the OTA firmware 'mandatory safety' updates.

“ISA systems do not automatically apply the brakes, but simply limit engine power preventing the vehicle from accelerating past the current speed limit unless overridden.”

"To make the move more popular, the ETSC proposes an on/off switch to be included at first, which would allow the system to be overridden by pushing hard on the accelerator."

"All new cars would also be equipped with data loggers to track the system under recommendations from the ETSC."

Reminds me of a film called The Last Race (1981) It is about a future far-left dystopian technocracy where cars are banned and public transport and recycling are mandatory.

Edited by snufflegrunt on 25/08/2019 at 09:17

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 10:02
Car tax rip off charges! - Bromptonaut

"To make the move more popular, the ETSC proposes an on/off switch to be included at first, which would allow the system to be overridden by pushing hard on the accelerator."

Where are those quotes taken from?

Explanations I've seen suggest two different override mechanisms. The first is as described above; 'kickdown' to obtain/retain emergency acceleration. The second is an on/off switch as snufflegrunt mentions.

The latter, working a bit like function to turn off stop/start and which defaults back to on at re-start is stated to be an aid to acceptance. The former is a safety override and I cannot find any evidence of a plan that would see it's functionality removed at a later date.

I'm not saying it's a good thing and that i want it in my car but if it stops accidental speeding where 30 creeps to 37 or 40 I can see some utility for it.

As a 'remoaner' I'm filled with ironic laughter that 'taking back control' doesn't give us control over stuff like this.....

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 23:45
Car tax rip off charges! - alan1302

Except the speed limiters that are planned can be over ridden by putting your foot on the accelerator so why would you not be able to accelerate?

Er, speed limiters are not able to be overridden, when they give softening up spiel about such things it doesn't always tell the whole story.

These ones are able to be over ridden - the car knows the speed limits and hold you at the speed but it allows you to past the limiter witch a kickdown.

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 10:17
Car tax rip off charges! - Bromptonaut
Looking at these ridiculous charges from April 2017 and I have one question. Can you get a 2017 car (over £40k new) on a 17 plate registered on the 31/03/2017? This would if possible make the car emitting 120 co2 only £30, instead of £450 a year to tax?

No. If it was registered on 31-03-2017 it would be a 66 registration.

And to be honest compared with other costs of a car listed at >£40k (not least depreciation) £1600 over five years is chicken feed.

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 11:46
Car tax rip off charges! - Lee Power

I knew of the car tax issue when I was looking for a replacement car last year so went for a 2016 registered 16 plate car & got the £20 yearly tax rate due to low emissions.

A friend of mine bought a very similar car with identical power train but 2017 registered 17 plate car & got clobbered with £145 yearly tax rate due to the new rules.

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 15:32
Car tax rip off charges! - oldroverboy.

A friend of mine bought a very similar car with identical power train but 2017 registered 17 plate car & got clobbered with £145 yearly tax rate due to the new rules.

None of this is rip off!

The car tax/ved rules are there to raise revenue for hospitals, schools, roads etc etc etc..

If nothing is taxed how do we pay for them?

If you don't want to pay tax for things like that, don't spend!

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 15:57
Car tax rip off charges! - Lee Power

Vehicle excise duty should be being spent on the road network & infrastructure only, the money raised shouldn't be siphoned of to pay for hospitals & schools.

Motorist always get seen as an easy target to raise funds for other objectives.

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 16:18
Car tax rip off charges! - Vitesse6

We don't do that in the UK. All taxes go into the general pot and is spent according to government policy.

Can't see it changing either as it would make our overcomplicated tax system even more complicated, and allow more opportunity for fancy accountants to dodge payment.

As already stated above, we need taxes to pay for running the country. Shame there are lots of people who manage to enjoy the benefits of the UK but pay a fraction of the tax they ought by being taxed in some small island.

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Mon 26 Aug 2019 00:43
Car tax rip off charges! - Big John

I knew of the car tax issue when I was looking for a replacement car last year so went for a 2016 registered 16 plate car & got the £20 yearly tax rate due to low emissions.

A friend of mine bought a very similar car with identical power train but 2017 registered 17 plate car & got clobbered with £145 yearly tax rate due to the new rules.

Which is the same rate as car tax was back in 1996

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Sun 25 Aug 2019 19:15
Car tax rip off charges! - RichardW

No. If it was registered on 31-03-2017 it would be a 66 registration.

No it wouldn't.... plate change is 1st of March, so yes, the first month of 17 plates are on the old tax regime. Rather narrows down your search options if you are looking for just a month's worth of cars!!

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Mon 26 Aug 2019 00:43
Car tax rip off charges! - Avant

I can understand car tax being an issue if you're on a very low budget. But can someone explain why a few hundred a year difference is so important if you can afford the thousands need to buy a 2017 car?

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Mon 26 Aug 2019 23:14
Car tax rip off charges! - Big John

I can understand car tax being an issue if you're on a very low budget. But can someone explain why a few hundred a year difference is so important if you can afford the thousands need to buy a 2017 car?

Possibly because there are more and more people only considering just the monthly payments involved and that would include car tax which at the higher levels would be over £40 month. With PCP etc many are buying cars that back in the day they couldn't afford - the trouble is the full cost inc GMFV goes against your name on a credit reference.

Some costs that seem to get forgotten are GAP insurance, cost of tyres and maintenance - especially with second hand PCP cars that always seem to be overpriced to start with. The other issues with PCP are going over mileage and/or getting any damage sorted before handing back.

Myself I buy cheap nearly new and keep - I've found this to be the best way of coping with a highish annual mileage (for now!)

What is wrong with the latest car tax - it's the same for a lower model Ford Mustang and for a Toyota Aygo after the first year.

Edited by Big John on 26/08/2019 at 23:44

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If you cover no more than 100 miles per day and have easy access to a charging point at home or work, then an EV is ideal for you.

Is an electric car right for me?