Your advice - Chris Lockwood

Hello,

Changing my car soon, had a 1.5 diesel 15plate clio for three years.

I have been looking for a few months, focusing on comfort and reliability for my commutes up and down from Cumbria. I want to keep this next vehicle for a long time and from everything I have read it seems that Honda are about as reliable as they come. I am so bored of the Clio, its painfully slow and uncomforatble.

I can't make my mind up between the Honda Accord 2.2 (180bhp) or the Honda Civic either in the 2.2 / newer 1.6 engine. Economy and enough power are important, but only covering 20k miles per year I can't see 8-10 mpg difference making a huge cost difference over the year.

Does anyone have experience with either car? An estate version of the Civic isnt absolutely essential but I feel I could use the extra space with the flat folding seats to sleep in for the odd night when I go traveling.

Id be looking as new as possible with the Accord as they have stopped making them, with a budget of 10,500 maximum but lower is better.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Your advice - SLO76
The Civic is an ideal option for you. It’s practical, comfortable, reliable, offers strong performance, costs nowt to tax and will do 65-70mpg on a run if you drive at sane speeds. I’d favour a later approved used example with the newer 1.6 DTEC which is not that much slower but is better on fuel, more refined and easier to sell on as buyers looking for an older used hatch can be put off by the larger engine.

The estate is handy but they tend to be around £1,000 more like for like than the hatch so your money won’t go as far but then it will be worth a bit more when you come to sell so it won’t cost that much more in the longterm. But if you are coming out a Clio I think you’ll find a Civic hatchback pretty cavernous.

Stick with the S or SE for softer suspension settings and you tend to avoid the daft hard to clean and easily damaged alloys on the sportier models unless they’ve been fitted as an option. Best spec in my opinion is the SE Plus with navigation.

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I’d take a look at the Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv which is nicer to drive but not as economical at around 50mpg on a run. No diesel particulate filter worries though which although rare on the Civic do occasionally cause bother.

A Seat Leon 1.4 TSi petrol is another good option. The sportier FR is the best model as more mundane examples look a bit bland and drop in value much more sharply.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/01/2019 at 19:11

Your advice - Chris Lockwood

Thank you for your input. I toyed with the idea of a petol Leon previously but I checked my facts and figures and worked out that it will cost me more yearly in the longrun than a diesel as long as I am hitting 60mpg average.

I have never actually been in a civic yet, but I didn't want keyless entry so I was lookong at the SR model as it has pretty much everything else that the EX plus has other than the keyless entry/start.

Your advice - SLO76
I can’t recommend either the Seat or Mazda with a Diesel engine as both have reliability issues. The Honda is one of the few modern diesels I’d buy.

Plus with diesel being around 10p/lt more than petrol currently the difference may be less than you think.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/01/2019 at 19:25

Your advice - Engineer Andy

Thank you for your input. I toyed with the idea of a petol Leon previously but I checked my facts and figures and worked out that it will cost me more yearly in the longrun than a diesel as long as I am hitting 60mpg average.

I have never actually been in a civic yet, but I didn't want keyless entry so I was lookong at the SR model as it has pretty much everything else that the EX plus has other than the keyless entry/start.

20k miles a year is a reasonable amount, roughly at the lower end (type of driving dependent) of the changeover from petrol to diesel (20 - 25k). If most of your mileage is on faster flowing roads and not lots of short and/or urban (slow speed) trips, which it appears to be by the mpg you're currently getting, then a diesel may be the way, but as SLO says, many modern diesels are NOT reliable, and you need to be certain that any you do buy are euro 6 compliant, in case towns and cities in your area follow London any time soon and ban cars that aren't Euro 4 (petrol) or 6 (diesel) compliant or better.

Note that you could get a newer petrol engined car (even with the current drop in diesel values) for your money and one that is more fun to drive and not that heavy on the old jungle juice - whilst the current Mazda 2.0 (non-turbo) engine can return about 45mpg on average, the 1.4TSI in the Leon, Golf and Octavia can easily match that and often can get 50+ average. The 140/150PS ACT version is essentially as fuel efficient due to its cylinder deactivation system but gets a 20/30PS boost in power so is even better than the still excellent 122PS version, just more expensive to buy. The Honda 1.8 petrol is quicker than the (de-rated) Mazda but can achieve the same mpg for the most part.

The Leon is great value, and if you value comfort, the SE version (122/140PS available) has more comfortable 16in wheels and tyres compared to the 17in and latterly 18in rims on the 140/150PS FR version. For comfort, the Mazda is far better on the 16in tyres on the SE and SE-L (incl. Nav variants) models, the latter being the best value for money.

In your situation, I'd either choose the Leon 1.4 SE or Civic (2012 - 17 version) SE Plus1.8 petrol or 1.6 diesel, though I'd get a thorough test drive done first as the Civic is by all accounts not to everyone's taste drive-wise (handling and ride quality) - some like it a lot, others can't stand it at all. If you value comfort, stick to cars shod on standard 16in tyres with at least 55 profile sidewalls.

To save you some cash over the longer term, the most popular (and thus the cheapest) 16in tyre is the 205/55 R16 V, coming in at about £55 - £75 each (fitted) for decent summer tyres. The Mazda uses a more unusual combo at 205/60 R16 and is about 20-30% more expensive with less quality options available. Not sure about the other two cars, though I wouldn't be surprised if the Leon did come on the 205/55 R16 - many VAGs have done. Essentially no difference in how they work though, just price and availability.

I suspect that the Honda will cost more to insure and service, but will last longer and need replacement parts. Worth also checking out the quality (find out about their reputation via reviews friends, family and colleages as possible) of the local main dealers, including the next local ones (including near your workplace that's within easy -ish reach), as the SEAT and Mazda dealers can vary from good to rubbish, whereas Hondas tend to be generally good, with only a few poorer ones. Find a good'un and it will save you a LOT of hassle and money.

Best of luck.

Your advice - Chris Lockwood

thank you for this, most of my journeys are on motorways/country roads with hardly any stop-start driving involved so I do think that a diesel is still the way to go for me. I had considered the leon 1.4 but im unsure whether its just been drilled into my head for so long that diesel vehicles are far better on economy, but I just can't see how a petrol would cost me less over the year, even with cheaper services etc.

I have had my mind on a 12-17 civic for a while now, although I prefer to buy slightly newer vehicles, as this is purely to be a confortable work horse and I intend to keep it for a long time I may opt for a model closer to 2012 than 2017. I believe they are essentially the same vehicle as I can't find any news of a facelift version inbetween apart from the slow speed automatic brake system introduced from 2015 onwards.

I have also noticed that on the 2012 vehicles the spec is listed as EX, and on newer ones EX PLUS, do you know what the difference is?

Thanks for all of your help guys

Your advice - focussed

I have one of the last 2015 UK spec Accord Tourers Type S 180 hp diesel.

Nothing has gone wrong and it turns in mid to high 40's on a run, performance is suitably sporty if you need it.

The suspension is supple but well damped and although it has low-profile tyres doesn't bang and crash on rough tarmac, the roadholding will show a lot of so-called sports cars the way home.

The build quality is on another level entirely above UK- built Hondas as it is built in Suzuka Japan, the fit and finish is impressive. This is the update model I think from 2012 onwards.

Your advice - catsdad
Chris

Re the 2012-17 Civic. I have a 2012 1.8 petrol bought used at 18 months old and its been faultless to its current 65k. It still drives like new. There were mods once or twice over the lifetime of the model. I can't recall the details but they weren't major. It might have included a suspension tweak but I don't find any issues with mine.

There are two things I suggest that you look out for. First the servicing regime. Mine came set to a variable service which would have led to extended oil intervals so I had it switched to a time and mileage. Its worth checking in an older car just what servicing has been done and when. Secondly they seem heavy on brakes. Mine was flagged as having close to limits discs and pads around 60k. This is a £600 job at a dealer. No doubt cheaper at an indie. The only previous car I needed the brakes to have done was my Accord so maybe its a brand characteristic?

Finally the offers may have changed since I bought mine but the Approved Scheme at the time was very good. I got 4 years full service (with annual oil change, air and cabin filters and even the valve adjustment that Vtec engines need every 5 years or so), free MoTs and free breakdown cover. Basic servicing after the package expired is pretty reasonable and its easy to supplement things like brake fluid changes from their standard menu pricing.

Edited by catsdad on 12/01/2019 at 10:12

Your advice - SteveLee

The Hondas are good but if newness is important to you, you'll get more Hyundai I40 or Kia Optima for your money - 2016 or newer, which means they have plenty of warranty left. They also both have far more kit as standard than the Hondas. Both are good motorways cars.

Another left field interesting option would be a Volvo V40 R Design 2.0D, very quick and good on fuel, lots and lots of kit and lovely seats - some of the comfiest you'll find. Probably not quite up there with Honda, Kia, Hyundai for reliability. Lovely looker though.

Your advice - focussed

"They also both have far more kit as standard than the Hondas"

What kit would that be then?

Your advice - Engineer Andy

The Hondas are good but if newness is important to you, you'll get more Hyundai I40 or Kia Optima for your money - 2016 or newer, which means they have plenty of warranty left. They also both have far more kit as standard than the Hondas. Both are good motorways cars.

Another left field interesting option would be a Volvo V40 R Design 2.0D, very quick and good on fuel, lots and lots of kit and lovely seats - some of the comfiest you'll find. Probably not quite up there with Honda, Kia, Hyundai for reliability. Lovely looker though.

Not sure if the ride quality of the Volvo in R Design format will be great on less-than -perfect surfaces (especially a second hand one) as that model is normally shod on big wheels and low profile tyres (a neighbour has one).

Additionally, for the longer distance driver, the car (in general) doesn't have a left foot rest (amazing for a make that prides itself on driving ergonomics [the seats are very good when I sat in one when looking for a new car a couple of years ago]) - something that is a red line for me.

And that horrible old-style tiny LCD satnav/ICE display....still there today, I think.

Your advice - Chris Lockwood

I test drove a Honda civic yesterday and I didn't like it at all. The garage I was in had a 1.4 ACT 150bhp Leon and 2.0 diesel 184bhp Leon. I drove both of them and really liked how they felt. The petrol was 15k less miles, same year but £500 cheaper than the diesel version. Performance felt very similar. I wish i could keep them both for a week to see what the difference in MPG would be for the way I drive for the distance/speeds I travel!

Your advice - Wee Willie Winkie

If it's any help, I have the same 184bhp engine in an Octavia. Economy on a mixture of roads is around 46mpg.

Your advice - Avant

46 mpg is also the long-term average in my wife's Audi A1 with the 125 bhp 1.4 petrol engine.

The 150 bhp is of course more powerful but has the cylinder de-activation to make up for this in terms of economy. Go for the petrol Leon. It's a lovely engine - queter than the diesel but still with plenty of torque.

Edited by Avant on 14/01/2019 at 09:37

Your advice - Nomag

I've had my 2.0 184 diesel Leon hatch for nearly a year and 16k miles.

I drive enthusiastically 55 mile round trip commute 50/50 motorway/fast B road

Summer 49-50mpg

Currently 46-47mpg

Actual, not car computer figures. Computer over estimated by 2-3 mpg.

I like the diesel but when I was buying last Jan the 1.4 petrols with similar mileage we're going for the same price or more than the diesel, which had a higher original price new. I'd perhaps have gone for the petrol at the prices you mentioned. FWIW I paid 11995 for my 2 year old car with 15k miles on it.