|
<< A hospital should be an exemplar building and employer for people to travel by healthy active travel means, starting with the staff. >>
In principle, yes. This may not be the place to say it, but many NHS staff look as if they take very little strenuous exercise of any kind - other than trying to lift overweight patients, perhaps.
And many of the 'public' see public transport as for long-distance use only. Cars are so much handier: quicker, drier, more private ... if it weren't for so many others getting to the parking spaces first.
Edited by Andrew-T on 28/12/2018 at 15:43
|
|
Basingstoke Hospital ha a free hour parking which is something. I'd like to see a breakdown as to where the parking charge monies go.
|
|
|
I have spent a great deal of time volunteering at my local hospital over the last ten years and I can assure you that since the introduction of extended 12 hour shifts the staff are in no fit state to start excercising Andrew , that's why they tend to pay for parking rather than rely on public transport.
Also because of the 24 hr shift pattern staff need to be relieved by the next shift before they can leave tha patients.
So it's no use phoning in to say the bus was late or deciding at the last minute that you have decided to work from home.
|
|
In Nye Bevan's day there were quaint things like ambulances and Casualty departments that operated under less strain.. Now of course demand is so high that these services are difficult to operate. All recent change has not necessarily been for the better. Personally having recently experienced the NHS first hand and up close and very personal I have nothing but admiration for it and the staff who operate it. Certain parts I dealt with could benefit from some well thought out restructuring but on the whole it operates very well for the most part. I suppose I don't mind paying for parking if it does help and goes toward the hospital budget but there is no mean average for country. A decent charge level needs to be imposed so everyone knows where they are. It costs me to park just about everywhere else I visit so a charge at the hospital is not too onerous. Obviously hardship cases should be able to apply in confidence and receive some help, but otherwise I don't mind.
Cheers Concrete
|
In Nye Bevan's day there were quaint things like ambulances and Casualty departments that operated under less strain.. Now of course demand is so high that these services are difficult to operate.
Also in Nye's day there were a lot more smaller local hospitals so patients didn't need to travel as far. Of course modern hospitals offer a much greater range of treatments, but we all have further to go to get them - in our own cars, mostly.
|
|
|
|
So maybe we are overlooking , what in my mind is a major consequence , that medical staff are facing these increases as well throughout the year.
With a staff nurse s take home pay being £10 an hour for shift work after studying for a degree with no financial hep from the government towards fees , it's little wonder that many Trusts are relying on contract staff which cost three times as much.
In my mind junior medical staff should be given free parking. Not a lot to ask !
|
|
|
... I can assure you that since the introduction of extended 12 hour shifts the staff are in no fit state to start excercising Andrew
I wasn't really suggesting that NHS staff should start exercising. I wondered whether a large employer - such as a hospital working shifts - might encourage neighbouring staff to ease parking problems by sharing cars. I bet a fair number travel singly, because it's just easier?
|
Don't think there is much take up for car sharing Andrew in view of the likelihood that staff share the same shift pattern .
Many NHS staff have family conmitments and tailor their duties to fit in with family life. I.e two three or four shifts of full time.
Holidays and staff training also make this idea , which is a good idea a non starter. A lot of staff like to combine the school run or pick up to coincide with at least one journey , relying on their partner to cover the gaps.
|
|
Basildon Hospital parking charges actually encourage you to be fitter. How? Well the first 30 mins are free and the Blood test dept is a fair way. So the trick is to book an online appointment. Get there just in time. Park up and leg it to your appointment. Get it done then run like a maniac back to the car. Then you park for free. I've only paid once. I run pretty fast !
Do I trust Labour to abolish them ? No i dont. They actually had the audacity on BBC Essex the other day to boast how they have free car parking in the Welsh NHS that Labour run. Boasting when Comrade Corbyn gets in he'll make the English NHS parking free too. I'd rather pay for parking to avoid the clussterfrack that is a Labour run NHS. The Welsh one kills people.
Edited by Ethan Edwards on 28/12/2018 at 20:02
|
|
|
|
... I can assure you that since the introduction of extended 12 hour shifts the staff are in no fit state to start excercising Andrew
I wasn't really suggesting that NHS staff should start exercising. I wondered whether a large employer - such as a hospital working shifts - might encourage neighbouring staff to ease parking problems by sharing cars. I bet a fair number travel singly, because it's just easier?
Having "earwigged" on nurses' conversations, they change shift far too frequently to establish car-sharing arrangements - plus the incoming shift has to park before the outgoing shift can leave - and with a 30-60 minute handover period in between.
|
|
Why free hospital parking isn't as good as it sounds
In Scotland, patients’ associations have complained that car parks at many hospitals, made free in 2008, are so permanently full that some people have had to leave their vehicle a 15-minute walk away – thus missing appointments. In Wales, which also has free parking, one hospital had to build a new multistorey car park and employ an external contractor to enforce rules. Without fees to cover the costs, this is money that could otherwise be spent on patient care.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/free...n
|
|
"Why free hospital parking isn't as good as it sounds..."
A good point, GW. However, the real issue is the unfairness experienced by hospital patients (who may be out-patients or day-patients who are very ill) and hospital visitors (recovering patients need the morale-boost visitors provide), who may have to pay steep charges to use hospital car-parks.
The solution is to have some kind of mechanism whereby patients and visitors can claim exemption or reduced charges – as happens at Addenbrookes, as I explained in a previous post.
The statement "Without fees to cover the costs, this is money that could otherwise be spent on patient care" is essentially an admission that car park charges subsidise the provision of medical care and is a nasty suggestion that we ought to pay up and be grateful, whereas the reality is that the NHS should be provided with sufficient funding by the government to do what it needs to do, without parking charges bearing down on the sick and vulnerable.
Edited by FP on 03/01/2019 at 13:17
|
|
|
|
From (almost) a Doctors perspective...
When we lived in Wales, we were about 1 mile from The hospital that swmbo worked at. principally. She also had to do clinics in another Hospital 20 miles away. A car was necessary to make it in time from one site to another and allow time for a (short) meal break. But if a clinic overran, then the meal break would disappear. That applies to lots of NHS staff too, nurses, ambulance drivers and paramedics, When there is limited staff parking it has consequences for patient care as some people decide that the "rewards" of working for the NHS are no longer worth the loss in other parts of family life.
When we went to Tooting to work, I was lucky enough to get a flat 50 yards from one of the entrances to the hospital. Here in Colchester, when the weather permits, swmbo walks. If not, i drop her and then collect.
For some of the lower paid staff, the cost of a parking permit hurts a lot financially. and we know of people who have given up, as something has to go.
It isn't possible for everyone to park as there isn't enough room. Add in free parking and the fact that patients use staff parking as well...And if a nurse/medic/carer is in the middle of treating/operating on a patient at 20.30 at night, they can't say sorry, got to go, last bus is at .... otherwise they can't get home..
There has to be some "control" over parking, otherwise it will end up with Hospital parking being used as a free for all.
For those who want/need care or services "out of hours" be it NHS, train drivers , taxi drivers, bus drivers, street sweepers, please try to understand that those people don't have the luxury outside of the big cities of buses before 6 am or after 8.30 at night.
All this without the patients trying to get to hospital or from... www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9794340/Hospi...l
|
|
I have just returned from a large hospital to see my wife the parking was free I would mention this was in Germany.
|
|
Purely as a matter of interest .... would "andrew bairsto" be the same contributor as "Andy Bairstow" (who used to refer to their home town as the German town of Dresden) ... and also Ilos, Collos and Collos25?
Edited by KB. on 03/01/2019 at 16:45
|
|
|
|
Why free hospital parking isn't as good as it sounds
In Scotland, patients’ associations have complained that car parks at many hospitals, made free in 2008, are so permanently full that some people have had to leave their vehicle a 15-minute walk away – thus missing appointments. In Wales, which also has free parking, one hospital had to build a new multistorey car park and employ an external contractor to enforce rules. Without fees to cover the costs, this is money that could otherwise be spent on patient care.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/02/free...n
Good shout. As I stated in a thread earlier I really don't mind paying a reasonable fee if the revenue is used wisely. It is not beyond their wit to publish basic accounts, like the council tax breakdown, to show where revenue is produced and spent. That way most people would support the idea of paying their way. As long as hardship is catered for. The old adage still applies: "If it's free it has no value". QED
Cheers Concrete
|
|
NHS is crap, about time it's status as the state religion was challenged.
Lots of places they have shut provision near centres of population and public transport hubs, and moved to hard to get to places, making average ambulance journeys much more tricky and parking a critical issue.
Together with parking being one of the ways they can apply hidden charges, and the end customers having little or no buying power in the relationship with hospital.
Rest of developed world does it so much better.
|
NHS is crap, about time it's status as the state religion was challenged.
Lots of places they have shut provision near centres of population and public transport hubs, and moved to hard to get to places, making average ambulance journeys much more tricky and parking a critical issue.
Together with parking being one of the ways they can apply hidden charges, and the end customers having little or no buying power in the relationship with hospital.
Rest of developed world does it so much better.
One way or another, the rest of the developed world spends more on health - not many of us want taxation or NI contributions to rise significantly.
It's 15% of all income in Germany, just for health insurance - it's 12% of income between the lower and upper threshold in the UK, but that covers pensions and social care as well as health.
How much can you afford to pay?
|
|
|
NHS is crap, about time it's status as the state religion was challenged.
You don't say what kind of user of the NHS you are. I am fortunate in having had to make very little use of it, but SWMBO has had several joint replacements with total success and satisfaction. I wonder if those who benefit from the NHS think it is great, while the others who mainly dislike paying to park think it is a ripoff.
I agree about centralisation of hospitals, we have lost several small local places over the years. The benefit is probably newer facilities and the ability to provide more advanced services.
|
I agree about centralisation of hospitals, we have lost several small local places over the years. The benefit is probably newer facilities and the ability to provide more advanced services.
Evidence from London is that centralising some services, stroke being a very good example, has meant higher survival rates and better outcomes, despite strenuous opposition over "closing our local hospital" - stroke patients now get highly specialised and skilled services in fewer hospitals, rather than less specialised services in more hospitals.
|
|
NHS is crap, about time it's status as the state religion was challenged.
Lots of places they have shut provision near centres of population and public transport hubs, and moved to hard to get to places, making average ambulance journeys much more tricky and parking a critical issue.
Together with parking being one of the ways they can apply hidden charges, and the end customers having little or no buying power in the relationship with hospital.
Rest of developed world does it so much better.
My friends in switzerland are paying £400 a month for health insurance each, they are 50 ish age wise. 10% deduction for excess and an annual increase in premiums. she is a school cook, he is a college lecturer.
|
|
Sad that these defences of the NHS show how brainwashed the British public is.
I have lived in lots of countries and consider the UK far and away the worst for all income demographics.
Indeed I would be long dead left to the NHS.
|
Sad that these defences of the NHS show how brainwashed the British public is.
I have lived in lots of countries and consider the UK far and away the worst for all income demographics.
Indeed I would be long dead left to the NHS.
To be honest, so would I. And my wife. Much as I admire the NHS and most of the people I have encountered within it.
If you go anywhere near a hospital, I would say you need to track everything yourself and chase it up. I have on no fewer than four occasions found that appointments for urgent investigations I have been waiting for have simply not been in the system (relating to a life-threatening condition). My wife was sent to A&E by her GP with an infection that required surgery. The first surgeon looked at her from the end of the bed and told her to go home as she could not possibly have an infection. He was persuaded to order a blood test, which confirmed she had an infection (which the GP believed was under the skin caused by a large bruise). A second surgeon who had by then come on shift also tried to send her home. A scan confirmed the infection at the suspected site which was then operated on at 2am during her second night in hospital. They sent her home 6 hours later, she could hardly walk and when I got her home she slept for 12 hours. It took her weeks to recover.
If you can't stick up for yourself you need a supporter/advocate who can do it for you.
My current GP is brilliant.
|
If you go anywhere near a hospital, I would say you need to track everything yourself and chase it up.
Totally agree. A close relative was supposed to be put on the cancer care pathway just before Christmas - they weren't.
They were told they'd be referred for a CT scan - they weren't, twice.
A private CT scan had to be organised to get things on track.
|
|
I very much doubt it,have you looked at the exchange rate recently.If they are spending so much they must be earning a lot.I have a cousin who lives and works in Lucerne and his contribution to health service is nothing like that,I live in Germany with my wife and we pay nothing as we are both receiving the pension what a superb service it is.
|
|
You can never have good service without competition to drive it. Currently we are effectively captive to the NHS in that we must pay for it even if we chose to pay for a private alternative. This is wrong.
I’m not advocating doing away with it but those who opt for private insurance should have a tax rebate based on what they save the state by not using the NHS. This would encourage more to opt out, it would take pressure off the NHS as most of these people will be older (and more affluent) and it would develop our private healthcare sector dramatically.
I’ve had both good and bad experiences with the NHS but the majority has been pretty poor to date. My 73yr old Dad went to his NHS GP complaining of chest pain and was told he “probably just had trapped wind.” He died two weeks later from a massive heart attack. This doctor only cared about his trip the golf later that day and knew his poor performance wouldn’t result in monetary loss unlike the loss of reputation would do in the private sector. He’s still practicing today.
My wife and then unborn son nearly died thanks to a disinterested midwife at the local maternity hospital and thanks to a delivery team including doctors and surgeons who walked out exactly on their shift end time midway through a crisis that resulted in an emergency operation when was delayed while they discussed and brought the next team up to date costing over an hour which my unborn child was in distress. Both were fortunately fine but post birth checks were poor on my wife who according to her home visit midwife should never have been sent home as soon after such major blood loss.
I struggle to get appointments at my GP’s not because they lack staff or are overwhelmed by numbers but because of a rotten attitude. Call them and after you finally get through you’re met with a barrage of messages telling you to hang up and call back at a set time for different reasons then you can’t get an appointment for weeks because half the doctors only work 3-4 days a week! A private firm would go bust like this.
We need competition, we need a genuine 24hr NHS where working people can get appointments outwith the normal working day. A private surgery reliant on private money would be open on Saturdays and in evenings to appeal to customers but NHS funded surgeries will never offer this while they get a huge pot of tax payers money.
I’m all for a nationally funded NHS but I would like to see provision made both by state and private suppliers. Let the state hospitals and GP’s compete for tax payers cash. The good ones will thrive and the bad will exit the market. Everyone will be covered but those who want to go privately should be encouraged.
Edited by SLO76 on 04/01/2019 at 13:09
|
|
Slo, just a minor tale to tell you.
Swmbo was interviewed for a position with a private provider of health services in the UK, which she did not take up.
It was made clear in the 2 interviews that she would be expected to "upsell" additional examinations and services.
The private sector like to have a minimum 25% profit margin.
Still want "private"???
17 years ago, (In Edinburgh) my mother had a major stroke, which sadly she didn't survive, but many 1000's of £'s of treatment was provided at no charge. The way the great British public works, sadly is that it wants everything free or as cheap as possible.
See what your taxation is in Europe and how the Health services are funded.
|
“The private sector like to have a minimum 25% profit margin.”
Why is the word profit such a dirty word to so many? Without profit and taxation paid on profit there would be no public services at all.
A quick look at the financials of the major private health providers shows a much smaller margin of between 3-10% in reality which considering the huge efficiency savings the private sector could easily find compared to the inefficient public sector is actually quite surprising, I like you thought they’d be earning more.
I have no problem with any firm making a profit as long as they provide a good service.
www.bupa.com/corporate/our-performance/financial-r...s
|
|
|
|
It seems that the only way this could all work is some kind of (regulated) up-front payment with a system for "entitled drivers" to claim back afterwards. Automated petrol pumps are one example - pay £30 on the spot and the excess is credited to the bank account a week or two later. (It works fine in Greece.)
It's no doubt time consuming and distressing for patients and their families, but some robust mechanism is needed to (1) prevent abuse (town centre office workers parking free every day) (2) facilitate hospital parking to as many genuine patients/families/health workers as possible.
Totally free, unlimited parking clearly has its drawbacks. At the other extreme, the carte blanche money-grabbing afforded to contracted-out parking firms is despicable. Rather like the mass privatisation of so many other utilities we once regarded as "public services".
|
Too many people have cars now, hospital car parks were never designed to cope with the volume they have to contend with today and why should tax payers fund the purchase of more land to build on?
I agree with parking charges where space is limited but if there’s always room then it’s not required. Also why do people believe that those who work for the NHS should be somehow above the rest of us and not liable for parking costs? They do a job, often they’re paid a lot more than the rest of us and yet there’s hysteria when they’re asked to pay for parking just the same as the rest of us.
|
|
Another problem is motorists aren't prepared to walk.
Since this thread started I've had to take someone to my local NHS hospital. The ambulance bay had three cars in it (two Audis and a Merc) despite a drop-off point being a few yards away.
The car park is massive, but there's a council car park closer than the far distance of the hospital car park and at half the cost.
The park-and-ride has a stop outside the hospital. Four buses an hour and a ten minute ride for the cost of one hour's parking.
|
Too many people have cars now, hospital car parks were never designed to cope with the volume they have to contend with today ...
An astute observation, SLO, but even then each person can only drive one at a time. Part of the problem may be where they leave their second or third car - many people only have access to on-road parking, and many of them think that is a right, which it's not. Plus there are a lot of older cars on SORN - hopefully most of those are 'OR' as required.
I think we have drifted into the American mindset of automatically getting into the car to go almost anywhere. Of course for them, distances are greater, so it's more necessary. Maybe the impossibility of parking could counteract that a bit? :-(
|
|
Meanwhile back at the thread! Any reasonable parking fee is alright with most people as long as any excess revenue goes into patient care. Despite what is being said I have recently had cause to be treated by the NHS and cannot praise them highly enough. Car parking is very much a side issue. Where else can you pitch up for a consultation and treatment without your wallet? Unfortunately as I have said previously: "If it's free; it has no value" that is the way it is treated by people who are obviously educationally challenged.
Cheers Concrete
|
|
I too don't get the NHS-bashers.
My recent experience: given diagnosis of bowel cancer on 11th December. Given CT and MRI scans involving high-tech mega-expensive machinery on 16th December, confirming the cancer had not spread. Surgery on 28th December utilising the latest minimally-invasive techniques. Home on 29th.
That sounds like a seriously good medical service to me.
|
There are good and bad examples aplenty for our beloved (and hated) NHS. I blame them for the death of my father and the near death of my wife and child, both cases were down to staff who couldn’t care less and clearly weren’t worried about poor performance costing them their jobs but my own personal experiences have been ok to date with short waiting times to get in to have a couple of minor concerns checked and my mother had two new knees very quickly through a local private hospital but administered and paid for via the NHS.
Again you’ll never have good service without competition and the fear of losing your job neither of which really exists in our trade union and politically dominated NHS. A private system funded by tax payers who would have the choice of who or where treats them would be in my opinion far better. The good would thrive and the poor like the rotten GP surgery who effectively killed my dad and the local maternity Hospital which has a terrible reputation would disappear or be taken over by someone who knew what they were doing.
|
There are good and bad examples aplenty for our beloved (and hated) NHS. I blame them for the death of my father and the near death of my wife and child, both cases were down to staff who couldn’t care less and clearly weren’t worried about poor performance costing them their jobs but my own personal experiences have been ok to date with short waiting times to get in to have a couple of minor concerns checked and my mother had two new knees very quickly through a local private hospital but administered and paid for via the NHS. Again you’ll never have good service without competition and the fear of losing your job neither of which really exists in our trade union and politically dominated NHS. A private system funded by tax payers who would have the choice of who or where treats them would be in my opinion far better. The good would thrive and the poor like the rotten GP surgery who effectively killed my dad and the local maternity Hospital which has a terrible reputation would disappear or be taken over by someone who knew what they were doing.
Local clinical commissioning groups often fund treatment at private hospitals - given our experience over the last two years, SWMBO and I won't select private hospitals again - there was no speed advantage and gaps in care - in contrast, I've also needed NHS emergency care after multiple organ failure and not found them wanting.
There are many industries with plenty of competition but low standards!
|
“There are many industries with plenty of competition but low standards!”
That’s rare and usually when buyers are uninformed or lazy. The fast fit vehicle repair industry is a fine example. Competition should’ve weeded out the bad or incompetent but buyers keep using certain national chains (one in particular) despite their reputation for fraud because they don’t do their homework. I have friends who regularly get ripped off by said chain yet they know I’m pretty knowledgeable about cars and they refuse to ask for advice. They pay the price, one recently with four new shockers on a low mileage car that I’ll hazard a bet didn’t need one. It was rattling from the front which was found to be a broken spring and she was talked into new shocks all round as this apparently would’ve damaged them all. Robbing gits!
But in general strong competition breeds good product and service. Look at the motor industry as a whole. Compare it to the dark days of the 70’s when our nationalised car makers had a near stranglehold via taxes and restrictions on foreign products and through huge tax payer subsidies. There was no need for them to compete to survive so they produced rubbish and our services Police and nationalised utilities etc were forced to buy British.
Todays cars are generally excellent with really no genuinely bad models on the market at all even the cheapest bargain bucket Dacia is a perfectly decent car. Competition has brought choice, safety, reliability and driver enjoyment.
|
I had first hand experience of the private health system overseas when our office was been charged for unnecessary treatments.
Our medical advisor quickly realised this and arranged for patients to be returned home for an NHS assessment in order to find a true diagnosis not influenced by profits !
My late wife regularly worked a 14 hour day in her role as a NHS Stoma nurse but eventually burnt herself out as she would not reduce her standards of care.
Returning to the discussion. Would it be appropriate to charge disabled patients for parking? A reserved spot yes, but free Parking ??
|
|
Delighted to hear it hadn't spread, FP. All the best for a complete recovery.
|
|
Thank you, Avant; it's very kind of you.
At the moment I just feel kind of dazed by it all, but hugely grateful to the wonderful medical people who were so caring and supportive. I await the follow-up appointment to see if I have a clean bill of health.
|
|
Best wishes FP, hope all goes well.
|
|
Sounds good to me too. I had a 'do' a few years back. Paramedics wired me up in own lounge, readings beamed to hospital. Taken in, treated immediately to stabilise and I owe them my life, well...what do you want?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
