Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - OceanMan

I had decided to get a full set of Michelin CrossClimates for my peugPeu 206 (2005, 1.4L Petrol) but I just wanted to double check that theyrth right for me.

My problem is that I don't know how much I will be driving over the next year in what conditions, and I don't even know how long I'll keep my car. At the moment I'm self employed but that could change at any time.

If I buy a set of CCs is the biggest risk that I won't get much use out of them if I resell my car in a year, or is there some other reason not to get them? Are they in adequate under any particular conditions?

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

I came across this chap's video recently, worth checking out his channel by the way because he explains things in a very down to earth way.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe-gkTCOs7E

In my humble whilst no doubt the cross climates are an excellent tyre, they are jolly expensive, there are lots of genuine all season tyres...note to be a genuine all season tyre means rated for winter use which means they must have the three peaks mountain and snowflake symbol stamped into the sidewall, in context of cold weather use M&S means nothing at all, note also all season tyres in the USA are what we would call normal summer tyres and so many blogs/websites/people are influenced by America these days that it's easy to misunderstand this.

The family have had good experiences with Vredestein Quatrac all seasons, and other makes such as Goodyear and Falken have made similar tyres to the cross climates, so whilst i'm not trying to dissuade from CC's maybe given your circumstances a cheaper (but still well branded) version of all season might be an alternative this time.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - RichardW

They're not that much more than other decent tyres recently - and if you buy some now, ATS are doing free fitting, 10% off if you go on Monday, and 5% cashback via Topcashback. I've just ordered a pair for our C4 - £210 fitted (205/55/17 V); need them before the weekend, otherwise I'd have waited to Monday, and got them for <£200! Oh, and you can get a free Amazon Echo doo-dah as well if that floats your boat!!

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - RT

The only reason not to buy Michelin CrossClimates is that Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons and Nokian WeatherProof are as good and may be cheaper.

Edited by RT on 13/12/2018 at 13:05

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Heidfirst

www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92863/all-...d

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

The only reason not to buy Michelin CrossClimates is that Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons and Nokian WeatherProof are as good and may be cheaper.

The price of CrossClimate tyres varies quite a bit - when I was downsizing my gen-1 Mazda3's from 205/55 R16 V to 195/65 R15 (H or V allowed), the difference in price (via Blackcircles) was about £20 (£87 to £67 each, fitted), but both these tyre sizes are the most common for those wheel diameters. Choose a less common tyre, say the 205/60 R16 V fitted to the current gen-3 Mazda3 and the price jumps to £109 (fitted) for essentially the same tyre as the 16in OEM on my car, a difference of over 25%.

The Goodyear Vector All-Seasons Gen2 can be found for a bit less (at least on that website) for the standard 205/55 R16 tyre, although for the less popular 60 profile one, it's an H rated tyre; the V rated one is the same base price as the Cross Climate. At least on that website, (owned by Michelin), CrossClimates often come with extra discounts for buying 2 or 4 tyres (about £6.25 each), so the price difference isn't so much, at least on the common tyre sizes.

I suspect that the differences between the two (the Goodyears and others [except the Continental all-season tyres - much harder to find]) will be more marked as you look at 17in and 18in tyres and especially less popular size combos.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

From what the tyre Reviews video was saying (and I've conversed via the comments pages there and on their website - the guy running it [can't remember his name] is a great bloke and often responds to comments and queries), people living in the South and East of England below The Wash can likely get by on Cross Climates, the Conti equivalents and other more 'summer-biased' all season tyres.

Thos in the North of England and more remote/rural/exposed areas of the West of England and much of Wales would be better suited to the Goodyears (the Contis straddle them and the CCs for performance) as these areas likely get more snow than the first; mountainous areas of Wales and mouch of Scotland would need more 'traditional' all season (winter biased) tyres or, in some cases, both summer and full winter tyres.

It's only on the continet where they regularly get large dumps of snow over much of the winter that they must have the 3 peak accredited all season or full winter tyres. Tyre Reviews did do an early review (link below) of the CrossClimate when he took an Audi A3 (FWD) up to the Alps and it seemed to to fine. I suspect that the pairing of the tyre and car makes more of a difference with all-season tyres (e.g. FWD, RWD, 4WD) than anything else. From reading reviews of the CC, they seem to fair better when shod on non-RWD cars.

youtu.be/YO0zyQh2l3M

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - lucklesspedestrian

We use them on our Golf and they've been great tyres, not much wear, good grip in the wet and give a lot more traction in the snow than standard tyres, can't recommend them highly enough. Only heard about them via HJ's site a couple of years back so am very grateful.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - catsdad
I have had CCs for 18 months/16k miles and just swapped front to back but the wear is so limited that its probably not necessary. Hardly a mm difference between them.

The only reason I can see not to fit them is that its a one way street. So, once you have them, if you damage a tyre, you have to fit a simllar replacement. And if that coincides with one of the random price spikes or a bad puncture "out of hours" it could be expensive.

Not the end of the world but the OP did ask.


Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - SteveLee

Lots of good all-season tyres out there - My misseses SX4 has Firestone Multiseasons which were cheap at the time and coped very well in last year's snow. I ran Nankang N607s in the past - and they were fine - no problems at all.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Leif

Lots of good all-season tyres out there - My misseses SX4 has Firestone Multiseasons which were cheap at the time and coped very well in last year's snow. I ran Nankang N607s in the past - and they were fine - no problems at all.

Not sure I would trust a Chinese brand, having had cheap Kumho tyres and twice lost control of the rear wheels within a month of putting them on. Transverse grip was poor. They were replaced ASAP and I've had no other skids before or since using Kumhos in 20 years.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy
I have had CCs for 18 months/16k miles and just swapped front to back but the wear is so limited that its probably not necessary. Hardly a mm difference between them. The only reason I can see not to fit them is that its a one way street. So, once you have them, if you damage a tyre, you have to fit a simllar replacement. And if that coincides with one of the random price spikes or a bad puncture "out of hours" it could be expensive. Not the end of the world but the OP did ask.

Essentially that would be the same argument against any all-season or directional tyre in general, most of which are above the price of non-directional tyres. The difference in purely monetary terms is far less for tyres that are of smaller internal diameter reasonable profile percentage and most importantly commonly used across several brands of car. It's only the non-standard, wide, low profile and large internal diameter tyres where the difference is significant.

In my car's case, that was about £5 - £10 a tyre, not including discounts, so hardly breaking the bank.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

Engineer Andy,

your two tyre sizes are among the best value out there, particularly those 195/65 x 15 which are seriously cheap, unlike the 215/55 x 17 as fitted to SWMBO Forester, the winter set 215/60 x 16 now on are proving more comfortable and quite a bit cheaper so when the summer set are finished i can see a change to the 16" happening but in all season flavour when the present sets are worn out.

Directional are OK for rotating if you have a tame tyre place, simply get the tyres swapped over side to side at half life point if they tend to wear on an outside shoulder though this may not be cost effective if you have to pay through the nose at the fitting bay, this happens now and again on lorry steer tyres too where they get turned on the wheel if outside shoulder wear is particularly heavy.

Purely out of interest, many lorry tyre changes are now performed (obviously not twin wheels) where they change the tyres in situ, this is just as easy for the fitters, (machines are not used its still all done by levers lots of soap and brute strength and technique) and the 30 minute wait between initial re-torques can be forgotten....most responsible lorry operators have agreed wheel nut torqueing agreements with their nominated tyre dealer or service provider if the wheels are removed, ie initial torque up after fitting, re-torque after 30 minutes and another re-torque after the first journey, usually the next day, and there is a card system so this is signed off and recorded at each stage.

You might also be interested how they seal stubborn beads that just won't seal on lorry tyres now, they nearly all carry a hand held air reservoir cylinder such as found on a lorry chassis, these are altered and have a handle welded on, also an outlet is welded on about the size of vacuum cleaner nozzle on a solid pipe about a foot long with a lever valve at the tak end of this pipe, the cylinder is pressurised via the fitter's on board compressor into a tyre valve inlet to the cylinder, and then the nozzle offered up to tyre bead, then the lever is opened and that sudden rush of air instantly forces the tyre out onto the bead.

Edited by gordonbennet on 14/12/2018 at 09:28

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Brit_in_Germany

Somebody posted a couple of years ago that the crossclimates only came with 8 mm tread from new. With the limit for winter tyres is some countries being 4 mm, that doesn't give you a lot of mileage unless the wear rate is very low.

Here is the thread:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/116307/new-tyre-tr...d

Worse than I remembered - the tread was less than 7 mm

Edited by Brit_in_Germany on 14/12/2018 at 11:49

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

Someone posted here recently their new tyres having 6mm tread, hardly worth the bother fitting, i don't run mine below 3mm whatever the type.

8mm has been pretty standard for a long time now, you only seem to find more on all terrain or mud terrain 4x4 tyres where 12/14mm is quite regular.

I think my on road use lorry tyres come with 18+mm depending on type.

Edited by gordonbennet on 14/12/2018 at 12:01

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

Somebody posted a couple of years ago that the crossclimates only came with 8 mm tread from new. With the limit for winter tyres is some countries being 4 mm, that doesn't give you a lot of mileage unless the wear rate is very low.

From reviews I've seen, wear IS very low. As far as I know (please correct me if this is not so), most all-season tyres only have about 8mm of tread - I thought it was only specialist winter tyres and proper off-road tyres that might have more. Have a look at this review of them (a test with other tyres) on Tyre Reviews (its a re-listing from a Euro car mag) and it shows that wear is significantly lower than all the others (mostly more than 50%), though the well-regarded (more winter-biased) Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons Gen-2 does well too.

www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2018-Auto-Bild-All-S...m

The continental (small c) european limits on tread depth in winter has no bearing in the UK and thus not 99% of us here (a few Backroomers hail from over the water and would be affected). Still miles better to have a worn, but UK-legal all season tyre than a summer one on snow and ice.

It should be noted that the latest CC has apparently been designed to degrade less in terms of winter performance than its chief rivals when worn to 4mm and even 2mm. Difficult to review this in a group test (the tyres were artificially worn), so user reviews will tell if that is the case, at least in the UK.

www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/New-VS-4mm-VS-2mm-Al...m

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - madf

I fitted CCs on the Jazz in March 18. I measured he tread then: 8mm..

After c 5,000 miles , 7.5mm.

I bought via BlackCircles - a 5% discount for 4..

No snow yet but perform well on country roads with mud and standing water and horse excrement..About 0.5mpg penalty vs same period last year on Michelin original fit tyres..which were usable at 30k miles when I replaced them until a puncture ruined one tyre so needed to buy a new one so switched..

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - sammy1

No snow yet but performed well on roads with mud and standing water...……….

I cannot understand how people can comment with any creditable authority on how their tyres perform on public roads! Does the fact that they go from A to B without ending up in a ditch make them an expert, There are people with almost bald tyres driving around in the same conditions without problems or are some drivers pushing till they feel the car move offline and then how can they tell and compare the particular tyre they have on compared to others.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - badbusdriver

No snow yet but performed well on roads with mud and standing water...……….

I cannot understand how people can comment with any creditable authority on how their tyres perform on public roads! Does the fact that they go from A to B without ending up in a ditch make them an expert, There are people with almost bald tyres driving around in the same conditions without problems or are some drivers pushing till they feel the car move offline and then how can they tell and compare the particular tyre they have on compared to others.

This is the inherent problem with tyre reviews done by buyers.

The tyre tets i see occasionally in magazines are done in a controlled environment using the same conditions for each tyre so you can compare like for like. In addition, the tyres will all be the same size and spec, and they will be done using either one car, or a fleet of identical cars. These are the only tests you can really rely on to show the differences between tyresunder extreme manoeuvres, be it emergency braking or swerving.

Obviously none of us want to be in that situation, but in the possibility it could happen, i would rather have a tyre that cost a bit more, or wore a bit faster, or reduced my mpg slightly than one which is simply going to cover the most miles before needing replaced.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

It makes sense where safe to do so to seek an idea of the limits of your tyres, probably not necessary in the dry as to seek the limits and exceed them is probably not going to end all that well, but better to learn your car and how it's likely to behave in expected conditions than finding out the hard way.

Anyone who has feel for what's happening at the road, and that tends to include many drivers who started long before all these electronic driving 'aids' were dreamed up, learned very quickly on old cars vans lorries buses just how little grip there is in real life in the wet, many of the newer drivers have never experienced this and have little in the way of seat of their pants feel for what is happening down at the road , and unless they switch all of the traction stuff off (not easy to do now) they are unlikely to find out, finding out could be lifesaver because no matter how brilliant these new traction/stability controls are, the laws of physics can easily take over.

Many of these more experienced drivers can tell within a few miles what the traction capabilities of the vehicle they are driving is, and can tell pretty well having driven in a few different conditions what the tyres they have fitted are like.

I've removed tyres within 1000 miles of fitting them, including the new OE set that were fitted to my new Hilux at the time, if they don't inspire confidence or are prone to breaking contact before a reasonable point they're replaced with something that does, hence why review sites and discussion like this are so valuable to those who take an interest.

MADF's been around a while and driven and been underneath all sorts of cars, if someone with his experience tells me product A is worth buying, i'm listening.

We've all had tyres that made you wary on wet roads, one of my earliest experiences/lessons was with my then Ventora when i was 20, it came shod on Michelin ZX's, in the dry it was ok but on wet roads it became like a tea trolley and might as well have been on casters, i replaced those with the then new Goodyear Unisteel, the car was transformed instantly.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

I fitted CCs on the Jazz in March 18. I measured he tread then: 8mm..

After c 5,000 miles , 7.5mm.

I bought via BlackCircles - a 5% discount for 4..

No snow yet but perform well on country roads with mud and standing water and horse excrement..About 0.5mpg penalty vs same period last year on Michelin original fit tyres..which were usable at 30k miles when I replaced them until a puncture ruined one tyre so needed to buy a new one so switched..

Same here (barely any wear, although I've only done 2k on them), and as I understand it the mpg penalty is reversed as the tyre wears when they eventually firm up. Additionally, dry grip will improve and wet/snow grip get worse as the tyre wears down the tread, essentially the same as most tyres. The apparent difference with the CC is that the noticeable drop off in the latter has been designed to be far less than rivals, as that test I linked to showed.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Manatee

I like the idea of the Cross Climates, but none of our 3 cars uses a tyre size that is available in them.

I'll look up the other two 'recommended' types in the video GB linked to.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

What i didn't realise until today when i looked on the tyre reviews website is that it's the same chap doing the tyre reviews videos linked to here.

Interestingly from the latest autobild all season tyre test it appears Bridgestone have brought a new all season tyre out which looks to be either giving it a run for its money or actually beating Michelin's CC at their own game, however that Nexen tyre featured is averaging out as a worthy contender too and is near enough half the price of the Michelins.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Smileyman

The Bridgestone tyre seems to be better in the dry and wet, but inferior in wintry conditions - to the point that in Germany the tests advise against this tyre in winter.

Running 185/60/15 last month I paid £270 for a set of 4 CrossClimate tyres fitted (including Saturday PM discount), and my Amazon Echo arrived in the post this week.

So far I am very happy with them, let's see how the winter treats me!

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Alby Back
About a month ago, my wife's Qashqai needed 4 new tyres and Crossclimates were, at the time, much the same price as any other brand I'd ever actually heard of, or could pronounce, so I thought, why not.

They seem very tyre like in their attributes so far but it will of course not snow here for the next three years as a result of my having had them fitted I suppose.

In fact, it was supposed to have snowed last night but it hasn't.

Slightly disappointing in a way.
Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - corax
In fact, it was supposed to have snowed last night but it hasn't. Slightly disappointing in a way.

Your wish may be granted today. Forecasts of snow and freezing rain.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

What i didn't realise until today when i looked on the tyre reviews website is that it's the same chap doing the tyre reviews videos linked to here.

Interestingly from the latest autobild all season tyre test it appears Bridgestone have brought a new all season tyre out which looks to be either giving it a run for its money or actually beating Michelin's CC at their own game, however that Nexen tyre featured is averaging out as a worthy contender too and is near enough half the price of the Michelins.

The Bridgestones appear from the (TRs - AutoBild) test to be VERY summer biased and not that good at all on ice and snow, even compared to the CCs. I suppose for those of us in more temperature climes they may be fine.

What also convinced me of the CCs (the Goodyears were excellent on this as well and I might've gone for them had the CCs not been on a discount and priced the same) is that they cushioned the ride more and were noticeably more quiet than others - the Bridgestones (and the Contis), as is often the case, are not so good in that regard. The Contis seem like a good middle compromise tyre, but from my experience are quite hard (and thus expensive) to find in the UK as opposed to the rest of Europe.

I suspect that if and when all-season tyres REALLY catch on in the UK, prices will drop further and the range of tyre size combos will expand to match demand.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

I like the idea of the Cross Climates, but none of our 3 cars uses a tyre size that is available in them.

I'll look up the other two 'recommended' types in the video GB linked to.

To me, it appears that Michellin are going primarily for the most popular 'mass market' tyre sizes, hence why my OEMs (205/55 R16) and the replacements (195/65 R15) are significantly cheaper, as these two are the most popular tyre size combo for 15 and 16in tyres, as well as being smaller tyres in general.

I think it's an indication of the rip-off nature of the tyre market that car manufacturers nowadays fit odd-sized (unusual) tyre combos for now apparent reason, never mind the wide, low/ultra low profile variety, which artificially boosts handling at a significant penalty in comfort, wear rate, damage resistance and costs.

It still amuses me when owners of essentially bog-standard C-sector cars are livid with their main dealer at having to shell out £125 - £175 a corner after 10k - 15k miles tops and constantly complaining of a firm ride.

Unless lots of people vote with their wallets as well as have a go at the manufacturers for what they're doing (IMHO in cahoots with the tyre manufacturers and fitters to drum up more trade/get extra profits at our expense), nothing is going to change. Same goes with them doing away with spare tyres (many now not even including the space for one under the main boot).

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

Trouble is EA, when there's a choice very few people opt for the model with the sensible size tyres when the car is new, one or two poster here in the past have successfully had the large alloys on their top range new model swapped for the taller/narrower sizes as part of the order.

I wonder how many people were overjoyed when they realised their lower spec new car was coming on freebie top of the range wheels, and realised things were not so rosy once they found the first pot hole or needed to buy new tyres.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

Trouble is EA, when there's a choice very few people opt for the model with the sensible size tyres when the car is new, one or two poster here in the past have successfully had the large alloys on their top range new model swapped for the taller/narrower sizes as part of the order.

I wonder how many people were overjoyed when they realised their lower spec new car was coming on freebie top of the range wheels, and realised things were not so rosy once they found the first pot hole or needed to buy new tyres.

Oh I quite agree, but until people start doing their homework before buying a car, like madf described, the situation will continue. My own Dad was suckered in to a degree on this, buying a new (end-of-line) low-spec Fiesta a decade ago (though he did get it for about £6.5k) but which had 50 profile 15in tyres, as opposed to the 13in and 14in 'standard' ones common on previous models and many from other makes at the time.

They look very nice, but the ride is firmer than on the previous 65 profile tyres and are actually much rarer (very little choice, limited to tyres that are D or [mostly] E rated for fuel economy [older designs only], even summer tyres [almost no all seasons available]) more expensive: about 25-30% more than my car's new size and about 10-15% more than my 16in OEM ones. Plus they don't last as long.

It's often the 'special edition' models that have the bling wheels and tyres (at very little extra cost to the manufacturer) which then go on to earn them and the tyre outfits/manufacturers a load of money, or draw people into buying poor quality Chinese ditchfinders to keep the replacement costs down.

To be honest, I wasn't pretty clued up on this when I bought my first car in 1998, but then the prevelence of bling wheels and tyres was far lower back then. It was reading HJ's column in the Telegraph and more lattery this site & forum which helped me with advice and know-how.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Smileyman

I agree, and had a puncture soon after buying new car August 2017. I had researched that the car came with a full size (but smaller size) spare, nonetheless I felt a danger to all road users stuck at 50mph forcing HGV's in to lane 2 (ie forcing all cars to slow down to under 60 mph)

What I had also researched was that the smaller size was a very popular size with a much wider range of tyres and at lower prices too. So I purchased a second set of nearly new OEM alloys (from a franchise dealer found on Ebay for under £50 per corner) and fitted the CC to these. The original size tyres are ready for fitting in the summer until worn out then will be retired until car is sold. The alternative could have been to buy some winter steel wheels which came recommended in this smaller size.

Ride is better and so far it seems the fuel economy is too (longer term testing is required).

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - madf

I like the idea of the Cross Climates, but none of our 3 cars uses a tyre size that is available in them.

I'll look up the other two 'recommended' types in the video GB linked to.

It still amuses me when owners of essentially bog-standard C-sector cars are livid with their main dealer at having to shell out £125 - £175 a corner after 10k - 15k miles tops and constantly complaining of a firm ride.

.

Given the letters to HJ showing new car owners have never driven the cars they buy before they buy, or are ignorant of its feature sI am not surprised

Being old and world weary, I always check replacement tyre prices before I buy a car.. Sad? Yes... but i was brought up in Scotland...

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I've got 205/55/16 on my Octavia. Was planning to get a set of all seasons tyres. The Michelins initially had a price premium of £5 each over my other short listed tyre ,Vredestein Quatrac 5. By the time I came to buy 4 at the beginning of November it had increased to £10. Insignificant I know.

A minor down side of the Michelins - they are unidirectional and the larger tread gaps may catch and eject bigger stones . Popular tyres though.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

I've got 205/55/16 on my Octavia. Was planning to get a set of all seasons tyres. The Michelins initially had a price premium of £5 each over my other short listed tyre ,Vredestein Quatrac 5. By the time I came to buy 4 at the beginning of November it had increased to £10. Insignificant I know.

A minor down side of the Michelins - they are unidirectional and the larger tread gaps may catch and eject bigger stones . Popular tyres though.

I was under the impression that almost all all-season tyres (and all winter tyres) are directional. Perhaps it has changed in the last few years, or that the Vredesteins are an anomoly. All the other big names seem to be the same style as the CCs with minor variations. The benefit from the asymmetric Qs is I suppose (other than price) that they can be rotated anywhere, rather than just front to back without completely refitting and balancing them.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - RT

I've got 205/55/16 on my Octavia. Was planning to get a set of all seasons tyres. The Michelins initially had a price premium of £5 each over my other short listed tyre ,Vredestein Quatrac 5. By the time I came to buy 4 at the beginning of November it had increased to £10. Insignificant I know.

A minor down side of the Michelins - they are unidirectional and the larger tread gaps may catch and eject bigger stones . Popular tyres though.

I was under the impression that almost all all-season tyres (and all winter tyres) are directional. Perhaps it has changed in the last few years, or that the Vredesteins are an anomoly. All the other big names seem to be the same style as the CCs with minor variations. The benefit from the asymmetric Qs is I suppose (other than price) that they can be rotated anywhere, rather than just front to back without completely refitting and balancing them.

I think many all-seasons are Assymetric, with a summer and winter side, rather than directional - Vredestein Quatrac 5 are Assymetric All-season tyres with additional 3PMSF winter rating.

"Bling" wheels/tyres sells cars - most car buyers will ignore good advice they might get here and buy something that looks good.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I was replying with the only reasons NOT to buy Michelin CC. Cost, unidirectional and larger gaps between tread. Trivial reasons. I may buy them next time.

The Tyre Review site on You Tube praised Quatrac 5 . Not as the best tyre, but maybe better than the Michelin, if you live up north and experience more snow.

I don't expect an all seasons tyre to perform as well in dry braking tests. I do expect better traction and steering in cold, wet and icy conditions. My previous good experience with Quatrac 3 definitely influenced me.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Engineer Andy

I was replying with the only reasons NOT to buy Michelin CC. Cost, unidirectional and larger gaps between tread. Trivial reasons. I may buy them next time.

The Tyre Review site on You Tube praised Quatrac 5 . Not as the best tyre, but maybe better than the Michelin, if you live up north and experience more snow.

I don't expect an all seasons tyre to perform as well in dry braking tests. I do expect better traction and steering in cold, wet and icy conditions. My previous good experience with Quatrac 3 definitely influenced me.

Indeed - having not quite as good non-winter performance isn't that bad, it mainly means you just brake a bit earlier or take corners slightly slower, although I doubt if it would affect most of us as how often do we brake or corner at the absolute limit of grip?

In the winter, however, going from a summer tyre that 'might' stop the car in 40m+ (Ref. the Auto Bild test on Tyre Reviews) to one that does stop it in 25-30m or works safely at all in moderate to heavier snow is much more beneficial, especially if you live in rural/remote areas and are dependent on your car for much of your livelihood.

As tyres get better over the years, today's all season tyres are probably just as good as a top brand summer tyre from 5-10 years ago in non-winter conditions. As I've said before, I think people suffer more in the winter nowadays because a far greater percentage of cars are fitted with wide, low profile tyres, which work very poorly in snowy and icy conditions.

I think that too many car manufacturers and, it has to be said, car owners, are too obsessed with their cars having amazing grip in warmer conditions, especially when the only way to experience that is on a track day or via breaking the law on our roads. I note that our friends from across the Channel, Atlantic and probably Down Under do not seem to share this obsession as much as we appear to. When did we stop being a practical people and become obsessed with image?

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

When did we stop being a practical people and become obsessed with image?

Around the time Thatcher bought millions of votes by flogging off the nations council housing stock at dirt cheap prices, and convinced millions of working class people they were now middle class.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - corax

I've got 205/55/16 on my Octavia. Was planning to get a set of all seasons tyres. The Michelins initially had a price premium of £5 each over my other short listed tyre ,Vredestein Quatrac 5. By the time I came to buy 4 at the beginning of November it had increased to £10. Insignificant I know.

A minor down side of the Michelins - they are unidirectional and the larger tread gaps may catch and eject bigger stones . Popular tyres though.

Have a good read up of the reviews for the Quadrac 5. They may be improved now from my previous Quadrac 3's, but I found dry weather braking distances disappointing in emergency stops, making the ABS come in earlier than usual, has happened on 2 cars, my previous car and my current car where I inherited a virtually new set at sale. They got noisy when worn, in some instances bad enough to mistake it for a worn wheel bearing, many reviews highlighting this.

I understand that all seasons are a compromise, but the Quadrac 3's were compromised enough for me to seek alternatives.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - gordonbennet

Interesting you should say that Corax, i think Quatrac 2 was the best of the Vredestein all season bunch, our daughters were kept out of trouble and mobile in all weathers on several sets.

Not just in tyres this happens, for years i bought DeWalt Challenger 2 Goretex boots, car transporter work rips work boots to shreds due to the stamped lorry decks but those Dewalts proved comfy as old slippers from the first time you put them on, completely waterproof and indestructible till you actually wore through the sole, even the laces lasted the life of the boot.

I bought one pair of the Challenger 3 boots when the 2 was discontinued, not comfortable at all, not cosy warm, not superlight, laces were rubbish and the soles split away in no time, i'm into CAT boots now which are doing well so far.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - corax
I bought one pair of the Challenger 3 boots when the 2 was discontinued, not comfortable at all, not cosy warm, not superlight, laces were rubbish and the soles split away in no time, i'm into CAT boots now which are doing well so far.

Shoes are notorious for that. I have a pair of North Face Hedgehog goretex trainers. I think North Face realised that they had over engineered them because I bought the next generation with a view to relegating the older pair to gardening duties. The soles on the new pair had no shock absorption and the uppers wore out in no time, leaking water and not fit for purpose anymore, cold and wet.

They like to change the design on running shoes every year. They'll come out with a really good pair, everyone loves them, then they'll ruin it the next year, people wise up and buy 2 or 3 pairs of their favourites before they run out.

Interesting about the Challenger boots, I bought some 2's based on your recommendation. I still have them in the car for occasional use, great for standing on ladders for a long time with the steel shank through the sole and incredibly waterproof and warm. I'll have to hang on to them!

Before I write them off, the Quadracs were very good for their main purpose of snow and wet weather grip, I just felt that there must be better tyres out there for overall performance.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - sammy1

mproved now from my previous Quadrac 3's, but I found dry weather braking distances disappointing in emergency stops, making the ABS come in earlier than usual, has happened on 2 cars,

Really! would have been really disappointing if you slam into the back of some innocent motorist. Had to imagine that some out there drive like this, How long do you expect your tyres to last driving like that?

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - corax

Really! would have been really disappointing if you slam into the back of some innocent motorist. Had to imagine that some out there drive like this, How long do you expect your tyres to last driving like that?

Have you never had to slow or emergency stop quickly? Have you ever driven in thick fog?

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Ok, which all seasons tyres have a dry braking distance as good as a summer tyre, while being great in cold ,wet, snowy and icy conditions?

Yes, I did my research. And bought Vredestein Quatrac 5 - as a compromise- when driving in poor weather conditions who doesn't slow down?

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - madf

Ok, which all seasons tyres have a dry braking distance as good as a summer tyre, while being great in cold ,wet, snowy and icy conditions?

Yes, I did my research. And bought Vredestein Quatrac 5 - as a compromise- when driving in poor weather conditions who doesn't slow down?

m****s.

There are a lot around here.

Is there any reason NOT to by CrossClimates? - 777boeingman
Fitted crossclimates to our Golf GTD in December 2016 (7mm tread depth). 2 years and 32,500 miles later the front tyres are at 4mm and rears at 6mm. So I expect to get 40,000 miles from the fronts and who can guess how much from the rears.

Much quieter than the factory fitted Bridgestons, more comfortable and hugely better ice and snow grip..... Yes.... We live in Scotland! I highly recommend.
 

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