CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:05
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Having driven a manual car for 40 years I have just purchased our first automatic. Can you give me some driving technique advice please. When pulling up to a junction or lights I slow and apply foot brake, at this point if i depress the brake hard I go into "hold" however sometimes this does not happen instead the engine turns off with the stop/start feature, my foot is still on the brake. If I take my foot off the brake and reapply the brake hard the "hold" will go on but in the meantime the engine has fired up and attempted to pull off. This is frustrating and slightly dangerous, but more than anything saps the confidence of the driver. I imagine the alternative is to select neutral but this rather undermines the automatic ethos.

This question is prompted by a query in the HJ pages in the Saturday Telegraph. Do the broke lights shine when in "hold" position I assume not (i realise I can easily check!)

Any Auto driving advice gratefully received. Thanks

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:16
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - craig-pd130

I don't know if your Merc is a proper torque-converter autobox or an electronic-clutch job, but here's what I do in my 225 hybrid. Beware, this topic is a real can of worms ;-)

When stopped for anything more than a few seconds (i.e. more than 10 seconds), I will select neutral and engage the electronic handbrake.

If it's just a short pause if 5 to 10 seconds or so at rest (in a queue of slow traffic, for example), I leave it in drive, holding the car with my foot on the brake.

You could try disengaging the stop/start feature while driving, that may help.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:17
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - gordonbennet

Firstly if the car were mine i'd get into the habit of switching that stop start rubbish off soon as i started the engine.

You might find once that thing is switched off that half the issues you describe disappear, there's no reason to be jamming the footbrake on hard, merely keep your foot gently on the pedal just enough to hold the car, then when safe to go apply throttle and away.

What you are describing is technology for the sake of it, the main reason for proper TC automatics is for easy driving, doesn't matter if you want to waft around serenely or pass everything on the road, a TC box will do everything (albeit for a slight fuel penalty), and to be fair MB boxes are among the best there are.

Try not to overthink this, all my proper auto boxes have been more or less the same to use, ie just letting the thing do what it does best.

Brake lights are another thing, and imo Merc led brake lights are stupidly overbright, personally they don't annoy me at a junction because i don't peer into them to annoy and blind myself which some people seem to do, it's not as if you are going to be there for half an hour with the rear lenses melting.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:18
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - RT

Use the handbrake and select neutral - it's now a requirement under the latest Highway Code revisions.

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/updates

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:27
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - Alby Back
If I'm on a flat or flat-ish road and can see that I'll not move off shortly, I select "P" on my Merc. Column switch so dead easy.
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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:28
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - Alby Back
So sorry, my iPad doesn't really get on with this software !

Edited by Alby Back on 02/12/2018 at 10:31

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 10:43
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - sandy56

Disengage the STOP/STart it is a pain in the a**** on any automatic.

COme to a stop and put it into neutral and apply the brake. Job done.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 11:00
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - badbusdriver

Looking up 7G-Tronic on Wikipedia suggests that it is a torque converter auto, though i'm not sure why that would make a difference to the problems you are experiencing as they seem to be related to the stop start and hold facilities. TBH, i am a bit perplexed about the presence of the hold on an automatic car, i thought they were only fitted to manuals to prevent the car rolling back on a hill if you fail to reach the clutch biting point in time.

We have a Honda Jazz CVT and while it does have stop start there is no hold. The stop start is something that i'm not entirely convinced by as it only works in drive with the brake pedal depressed. Not really an issue in daylight hours, but in the dark it would be very irritating to cars behind you, especially if the brake lights are particularly bright. You can switch off the stop start on the Jazz but i generally just work round it instead. If i think i will be stationary for a while, i will put the handbrake on and put it in neutral. If i think i will be stopped for a moderate amount of time, i will use the stop start (assuming it is daylight, otherwise, handbrake and neutral). If i think i will be stopped for a very short time, i will hold it on the brake, but with a gentle pressure, which won't trigger the stop start.

I think stop start systems are a good thing overall, but some are a bit too slow with their reactions, which abviously will lead to irritation and frustration followed by switching the system off. But i'm guessing that the 48v electrical systems currently fitted to various high end German cars will eventually filter down to the more run of the mill cars. These, from what i have read, react instantly. The only issue i have with it, is the fact that it only works with the brake pedal (at least with the Jazz), i would much prefer it if the system worked with the handbrake on and the car in park or neutral.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 11:13
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - barney100

Agree with any longish stop use neutral and switch the stop start before you even begin your journey. Basically R pedal go L pedal stop, I hardly ever use the switch gears facility but the speed limiter is v useful. I don't go for L foot braking but find the sport mode v useful at times.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 12:40
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Thanks for replies. Just been out to practice! When I select neutral (by pushing end of forward reverse lever) The display highlights "P". how effective is this parking mode? ie if waiting for traffic lights on a slight incline will it hold me? I'm not all that inclined to use the parking brake which activated by the left foot.

I notice i will need to apply the foot brake before engaging forward to pull off which is a habit i will need to get into,if slightly counter intuitive when wanting to pull off!

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 15:25
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - Happy Blue!

Pembsflyer

You are getting your P and N mixed up. I also drive a Mercedes automatic as does Alby Back.

To put the car into Neutral (N) simply flick the stalk up once and the display will go from D to N. At that point you can engage the (presumably foot operated) parking brake.

Pushing the end of the stalk in, engages the Park (P) function, which locks the gearbox, but if you do i when the car is moving you can break the gearbox! You use P when the car has stopped and you intend it to remain stopped for a moderate period.

If you have turned off the stop/start function, another purely Mercedes alternative is the Hold function. This is activated by pressing the brake pedal firmly when the car is stopped. This keeps the car in gear but stops it from moving. It has an advantage and a disadvantage. The disadvantage is that it is simply the same as keeping your foot on the brake pedal so the rear brakes lights are illuminated. The advantage is that to disengage it you simply press the accellerator pedal. This gives you a rapid move off the line as you are not wasting time disengageing the parking brake or the Park (P) function, before applying accelerator.

I use this all the time and it is very good at traffic lights or roundabouts when you need to be in front of the pack. You don't even need to drive quickly to benefit from this, the fact you are away over the line before others have dumped the clutch and released the handbrake makes a huge difference.

Oh, and if we all repeat - TURN OFF THE STOP/START SYSTEM!

.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 15:55
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Happy Blue!

Thanks for this, you've probably saved me a gear box or two!

Right:

Flick stalk up for neutral!

Push end for parking!

Very worried now coz I know I push end thinking it's the windscreen wash or the neutral on my Case Puma 160 tractor (which incidentally has stalk control up for forward and down for reverse, unlike the MB which is down for forward and up for reverse). Fortunately OH doesn't drive the tractor!

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 17:09
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - barney100

Foot operated handbrake? On my CLK I applied the footbrake then when the time to move came put the box in D, released the hand brake and accelerated away at an appropriate speed.

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 15:18
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Which date was the revision ?

Handbrake (foot operated) or "P" position on selector

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 15:23
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - RT

Which date was the revision ?

30th November 2018, two days ago!

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 15:33
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

looked, but can't see the reference! Copy and Paste please

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 15:21
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Use the handbrake and select neutral - it's now a requirement under the latest Highway Code revisions.

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/updates

Which date was the revision ?

Handbrake (foot operated) or "P" position on selector

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 12:25
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - mcb100
Easy, just leave it in ‘D’ and if it’s a stop longer than a couple of seconds apply the parking brake. It’ll release automatically as you depress the accelerator to set off. Just let the car decide when it stop/starts.
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Sun 2 Dec 2018 12:55
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer
Easy, just leave it in ‘D’ and if it’s a stop longer than a couple of seconds apply the parking brake. It’ll release automatically as you depress the accelerator to set off. Just let the car decide when it stop/starts.

Is this using the "hold"feature or the parking brake (foot operated)?

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Sun 2 Dec 2018 13:17
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - mcb100
Ah, I had forgotten about the delights of M-B’s foot operated parking brake, so not sure whether it will auto-release. Hill hold is much more useful to drivers of manuals, giving the driver 3-4 seconds to release the brake, find the accelerator and get the clutch to the biting point without either rolling back or using the parking brake. I’m pretty sure it will keep the brake lights illuminated when in use, thus annoying intensely the poor soul behind you at night...Every Auto I’ve ever driven has successfully held on an uphill when in Drive, anyway.
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Sun 2 Dec 2018 23:16
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - Nomag

Firstly, agree with previous posters, first thing you do EVERY time you get in the car is turn the stop-start off. If it could be permanently disabled on our automatic (TC) Kia I would. It's the most dangerous thing ever in an auto, you can be stopped at a roundabout in "D" waiting for a gap and the damn thing cuts out just as you were about to go....

Our car has an electronic handbrake but I'm afraid we very rarely use it, we do very little stop start driving, on a very steep hill there is an "auto hold" which is helpful as even in D it can roll a tiny bit backwards lifting off the brake onto the throttle. My strategy is if stopped for more than a few secs, push the stick into neutral. My wife, however, leaves the thing in D at all times and can't be changed. No doubt there will be people in here who think that is quite correct anyway, my engineer F-i-L seems to think it will do a TC gearbox no harm but it just feels better for me putting it in neutral (years of driving a manual)

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Mon 3 Dec 2018 09:50
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - madf

As I am growing old, putting the Jazz into P on a long stop means I forget, and try to drive off .. embarrassing revs.:-)

An auto is meant to be easy to drive, I touch the gear lever as little as possible. It is nonsensical from an ease of use viewpoint to do otherwise...

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Mon 3 Dec 2018 10:20
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - gordonbennet
An auto is meant to be easy to drive, I touch the gear lever as little as possible. It is nonsensical from an ease of use viewpoint to do otherwise...

Exactly the right way to do it, short stop leave it be, long stop you could select P and apply the parking brake.

Trying to drive a lovely smooth auto box by faffing with it continually is like having a dog and barking yourself.

Merc autoboxes have had an inbuilt hill hold going right back to the 80's and possibly before that, the parking brake would normally only be used when leaving the vehicle, even without a hill hold you would have to be on one hell of a steep hill in order for the vehicle to roll back, these are not some half baked automated manual or dual clutch thing, Mercs react instantly.

Edited by gordonbennet on 03/12/2018 at 10:22

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Mon 3 Dec 2018 17:23
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Thanks for replies and yes I think I am over thinking this. I had been merrily putting it in drive and pressing throttle or brake, occasionally putting in "hold", and letting the engine shut off if it wanted to. Simples

However, as the OP says I am concerned about the brake lights being on with foot on the pedal which they also are in "hold", especially with reference to RT's post:

Use the handbrake and select neutral - it's now a requirement under the latest Highway Code revisions.

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/updates

I haven't as yet been able to find the relevant reference but have no reason to doubt.

Never realised there were so many highway code updates!! probably coz of forums!!

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Mon 3 Dec 2018 18:02
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - Manatee

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules...8

Rule 114

You MUST NOT

  • use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
  • use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226).

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

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Mon 3 Dec 2018 18:31
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - pembsflyer

Thank you

Puts into question use of "hold". maybe ok in daylight hours.

Not sure I can bring myself to use the foot operated parking brake.

Guess I'll carry on as I am until I get an irate driver behind

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Mon 3 Dec 2018 18:37
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - RT

My previous car, a Hyundai Santa Fe automatic, had a foot-operated parking brake - I soon got used to it.

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Tue 4 Dec 2018 07:34
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - expat

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

I am amazed at how easily you folks in the UK are dazzled. I am in Australia and 80% of the cars here are autos. People just put them in D and leave them there until they get to their destination. If you come to traffic lights at red you just put your foot on the brake to stop the car creeping. Everyone at the lights does this and I have never heard of anyone being dazzled either day or night.

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Tue 4 Dec 2018 07:47
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - RT

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

I am amazed at how easily you folks in the UK are dazzled. I am in Australia and 80% of the cars here are autos. People just put them in D and leave them there until they get to their destination. If you come to traffic lights at red you just put your foot on the brake to stop the car creeping. Everyone at the lights does this and I have never heard of anyone being dazzled either day or night.

Congestion and bad manners, in the UK, means that drivers pull up too close to the car in front at lights - we also get wet conditions which does make dazzle worse.

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Tue 4 Dec 2018 09:15
CLS 220d AMG Line Premium 5d 7G-Tronic - automatic driving technique advise - Manatee

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

I am amazed at how easily you folks in the UK are dazzled...

I'm not.

The issue isn't painful burning of the eyeballs, it's loss of night vision and consequently being unable to see things in shadow.. Maybe Australians care less about being able to see properly?

I don't think the rule will have any effect, since 9/10 existing driverswill never know anything about it.

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