Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 13:52
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Brian Hicks

I'm hoping someone can advise me on the best way to resolve an issue with a mileage discrepancy please, I don't know what to do (or if I can do anything)

My father has recently passed away, and as my mother cannot drive she has asked me to sell his car (it's a few years old worth approx £4,000). So, as I don't have time to sell it privately I got a quote from one of these "we buy your car" places, and took it along, we agreed on a price (after being knocked down which was what I was expecting) but we then proceeded to do the paperwork, and he was going to transfer the money to my account when he noticed an NMR red marker on the car. So he said, sorry I can't buy the car due to this. Looking at his computer screen it didn't give detail on the anomaly just that there was an issue with the mileage. Now I know that my dad bought this car second hand from a main dealer, and had it regularly serviced and MOT’d at a local garage every year - I have copies of all the receipts for annual services with mileage details on - 90% of the receipts anyway (one is blank and one is showing a typo where the mechanic has added a number on the end so instead of 27,958 it says 279,586. But these are just servicing records so that mileage doesn't go anywhere else apart from the garage does it ? The mileage showing on the MOT record looks correct for that year anyway

I have got all the MOT mileages from just typing the history of the car into the online Govt website MOT checker, and I cannot see any issues here with what they have recorded – I have copied these below, am I missing something ?

Re this company Cartell (where the nmr is showing red) – who are these people/can I contact them? - the guy who was going to buy the car said they don’t deal with members of the public, just people in the trade – is this right ?

He has said he will try and get it sorted, but I have rung him a few times and I don’t think he’s done anything (I assume it’s very low on his to do list, but if he won’t do anything, can I ?

So the upshot is the guy won’t buy the car from me (or at a very reduced price if he does, as he says “I can’t sell it on as the mileage looks dodgy even though I have no reason to believe it’s not genuine from looking at it and from what I can see from these receipts” - so do I essentially have a car I can’t sell because someone somewhere has typo’d something wrongly ?

This is very upsetting for my mother who could really use this money right now, and I’m at a loss to understand how this process works ?

Going through my fathers papers yesterday I found another old letter from the NMR people referring to his previous car where they were also asking him about the mileage on that too, on that one he bought it from new, had it serviced every year and then sold it back to the garage he bought it from, so what is happening along the way where someone says there is a discrepancy, but you have all the proof that there isn’t but you can’t do anything about it and it’s costing you thousands of pounds?!

Hoping someone can give me some advice please,

28-2-18

MOT not due yet

Servicing mileage

44,863

-------------------------

17 August 2017

PASS

MOT Mileage

43,138 miles

Servicing Mileage 17-8-17

43,138

---------------------------

10 August 2016

PASS

MOT Mileage

38,594 miles

Servicing Mileage 10-8-16

38,594

Servicing mileage 24-2-16

36,257

---------------------------

5 August 2015

PASS

MOT Mileage

33,709 miles

Servicing Mileage 5-8-15

33,709

----------------------------

5 August 2014

PASS

MOT Mileage

28,206 miles

Servicing mileage 5-8-14

Blank mileage on receipt

Servicing Mileage 17-7-14

TYPO ******279586 (assume should have been 27958) *******

5-3-14

Servicing mileage

25,494

-----------------------------

16 August 2013

PASS

MOT Mileage

21,283 miles

Servicing mileage 16-8-13

21,283

Servicing Mileage 5-6-13

19,282

-----------------------------

7 August 2012

PASS

MOT Mileage

13,753 miles

Servicing Mileage

Day before – re test 13,751

---------------------------

6 August 2012 FIRST MOT

FAIL

MOT Mileage

13,751 miles

Servicing Mileage 6-8-12

13,751

---------------

Car registered 2009

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 14:01
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - badbusdriver

Sell the car yourself. It is low miles so assuming it is in good condition i can't see you having any difficulty in finding a buyer.

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 14:30
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - RobJP

Sell the car yourself. It is low miles so assuming it is in good condition i can't see you having any difficulty in finding a buyer.

Agreed. price it reasonably, and put it up for private sale. They're reliable, and as such, quite popular as cheap motoring.

The only thing I might suggest you doing is your own HPI check on the car, just to see if that 'flags up' anything.

But I very much doubt it. This looks like a classic case of 'fat fingers', and won't matter a jot to a private buyer - especially as the error can be clearly seen on the paperwork.

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 15:03
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Brian Hicks

yes it is in good condition, if i sell it privately though, what happens if they come to sell it in a couple of years time maybe (granted for not much by then) and they sell it to a garage and they flag it with this red flag then, could i get comeback on this (even if i sell it privately now and explain this to a new buyer so that they're aware)?

Also if i do a HPI check on it, i just looked online as i havent done one before it gives mileage discrepancie on there in the price, but surely it will flag red as it did with the "we buy your car" guy ?

Edited by Brian Hicks on 08/06/2018 at 15:06

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 15:15
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - RobJP

No, there'd be no comeback.

You explain in the advert (ebay motors might be the best bet, plenty of space there to explain things, unlike autotrader) exactly what the issue appears to be, and that a prospective buyer can inspect all the paperwork in person if they wish to do so.

It's called 'acting in utmost good faith'. As a private seller, as long as you do that, you have no legal liability to the buyer.

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 15:16
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Brian Hicks

thats's great, thanks for the advice, I appreciate it

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 16:10
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - SLO76
Sell it privately on Gumtree or Autotrader. Don’t worry about any comeback, it’s clearly a mistake and as far as anyone is concerned you were unaware and selling in good faith.
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Fri 8 Jun 2018 16:14
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - skidpan
as far as anyone is concerned you were unaware and selling in good faith.

Not if they read this Forum after buying a Jazz with one odd mileage reading. What would happen then?

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 16:27
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - pd

The "NMR" isn't some sort of statuory government body. It is just a private company which collates mileages (and not very well in my experience) and sells this data for a profit.

Their verdict on whether a car is genuine mileage or not is no more valid in law than anyone you might meet down the pub.

If anyone bought it and then moaned about this they have no comeback unless they can verifiably prove it is clocked and you knew about it.

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 17:44
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - concrete

If NMR is a private company collecting data, then I would be inclined to challenge them for the information which formed the basis of their decision to 'red flag' the car. They may have it wrong. In which case you can ask them to correct it and also for some compensation. Worth a try.

Cheers Concrete

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 18:07
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - RobJP

There is no liability on NMR here. They've obviously been given the mileage as logged from when the car was serviced - a lot of garages and especially main agents do this, as a central register. As the data is anonymised, there is no Data Protection issue in play either.

So the liability (if there was any) would have come from the original entry back in 2014. So he'd have to complain to the garage that originally made the error.

Even then, it isn't the OP's car, so he's personally not suffered any quantifiable loss to claim compensation for.

Edited by RobJP on 08/06/2018 at 18:10

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 18:59
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Brian Hicks

OP here again...

I'm going to advertise it privately and be totally upfront about the issue with whoever comes to view it, just a query re the mileage which I don't understand though, for that anomaly in 2014 the online MOT says 28,206...which would be right..it's only on the service receipt from the month before that it says 279,586...so when garages do servicing do they submit a vehicles mileage to the NMR people as a matter of course? I could see where the problem would be if the wrong reading was put on the MOT certificate and that went to the DVLA who then subsequently told the NMR people, but for a routine service ? Confused !!

Also does anyone know if these Cartell people deal with "joe public" or just people in the trade ?

thanks again for the advice..

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 19:12
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - bazza

I really wouldn't worry about it, just take the advice of SLO and Rob above, sell privately, You've got receipts, MOTs, happy days, Forget about NMR whoever they are. A tidy Jazz will sell rasily.

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 19:28
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Brian Hicks

Cheers, will do, thanks again everyone, have a good weekend

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 19:30
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - RobJP

Cartell take mileage data from NMR.

NMR are part of HPI Group.

HPI do say that records can be amended here : hpicheck.com/support/nmr-help

Q: I believe that a previous mileage entered on your database is incorrect. Can it be changed?

A: In order to best protect you, mileages cannot be removed without evidence to prove they are incorrect. If you think written information that proves a mileage reading is wrong (e.g. Service History, MOT) please supply HPI with a copy of the proof and we will be happy to evaluate and remove the reading where appropriate

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Fri 8 Jun 2018 22:42
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - argybargy

The Honda Jazz is a great car with an excellent reputation for reliability.

It will sell, no matter how many awkward and (it appears from the information you provide above) unnecessary questions you find yourself answering from private buyers.

Whatever any prospective buyers say to you, don't be browbeaten into taking buttons for what is a good car with low mileage.

Edited by argybargy on 08/06/2018 at 22:47

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Sat 9 Jun 2018 12:26
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - pd

The vast majority of NMR data actually comes from people doing NMR checks. They don't use MOT mileages (sounds daft but they don't unless they've changed very. very recently).

It is really a bit rubbish and I wouldn't trust it very far.

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Sat 9 Jun 2018 18:30
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - concrete

The vast majority of NMR data actually comes from people doing NMR checks. They don't use MOT mileages (sounds daft but they don't unless they've changed very. very recently).

It is really a bit rubbish and I wouldn't trust it very far.

Even the MOT testers get it wrong. On my last car they really cocked up the mileage figures by transposing numbers. Luckily I was keeping the car and made sure it was corrected the next year. However if NMR had collected the data from that particular test it would have been inaccurate. The service records however was always correct. But mistakes are made.

Cheers Concrete

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Sun 10 Jun 2018 11:26
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Andrew-T

<< Even the MOT testers get it wrong. On my last car they really cocked up the mileage figures by transposing numbers. Luckily I was keeping the car and made sure it was corrected the next year. However if NMR had collected the data from that particular test it would have been inaccurate. The service records however was always correct. But mistakes are made. >>

But there are 'discrepancies' and blatantly impossible errors. Transposing numbers can give a very feasible figure, but adding an extra digit - suggesting an annual mileage of 200,000+ in this case - is realistically impossible and should be treated as such. The problem is that no hard line can be drawn to distinguish the two kinds, so the 'system' has to assume that all apparent errors are genuine. They are trying to spot cases of clocking, which would be indicated by a sudden drop between two series of steadily increasing numbers. A stratospheric figure in one otherwise steady sequence is clearly a recording error.

If the false entry can be corrected officially, the OP should try to achieve that.

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Sun 10 Jun 2018 10:55
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Bromptonaut

If NMR is a private company collecting data, then I would be inclined to challenge them for the information which formed the basis of their decision to 'red flag' the car. They may have it wrong. In which case you can ask them to correct it and also for some compensation. Worth a try.

Cheers Concrete

Certianly worth challenging the innacurate data. GDPR might help here although NMR being Ireland based might complicate slightly.

Compensation is a long shot though. How do you quantify the loss other than your time spent sorting it out

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Mon 11 Jun 2018 20:35
Honda Jazz - NMR Mileage issue..help wanted please - Brian Hicks

OP here

So I've sold the car privately (to someone that lives just round the corner from where my dad lived weirdly). But anyway, I printed off the MOT history for him, gave him copies of all the service receipts going back to the start, I explained the nmr anomaly and he wasn't bothered in the slightest, he could see that the mileage is genuine and that the car is in excellent condition, he had a test drive and bought it. So a happy ending, thanks again for everyone's advice

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