Guess what? Bora 2 weeks out of warranty and find traces of oil on drive from the area of rear wheel, Dealer confirms rear axle seals shot (oil filled). Surprise surprise cure is new axle and seals. To be fair VW offered to pick up 50% of parts and labour as a goodwill gesture (which they didn't have to) but so much for the fabled VW build quality. Those Honda's and Toyotas aren't half looking more attractive. Any comments Guys?
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Try ford, the blue oval may not have to cudos of the vw badge but at 78k,6 years old 100% reliable and it does not leak from any seals. Now yours may be a one off,but vw build quality over the years has dropped and fords have improved and i would gladly buy another. Ok residuals are not high and depreciation is frightening bur i run the car for 6/7 years and never buy new so it is not a factor in my buying equation.however saying that i,d not touch the new TDCI Mondeo to many reported problems with the engine management
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"Those Honda's and Toyotas aren't half looking more attractive"
Or Mazda or Nissan or Skoda . . .
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Skoda is owned by VW, the whole group tends to use the same components supplier (albeit from co-located plants). Sow how come Skodas are better than VWs? And other than Claybuster's oil seal, where's the evidence VW build quality has dropped?
Or is the truth that it's image has raced ahead of reality?
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Or is the truth that it's image has raced ahead of reality?
I think Morris has hit the nail on the head here.
Anyone searching for the holy grail of a marque which never costs anyone money is going to be rather disappointed. You could post a message asking about any car on here and find people who have had problems. I always think its incredible how reliable cars are if you think about the number of times they get started, being left outside in all manner of weathers, being bumped over poor quality road surfaces, driven poorly, etc etc
I still happen to think that VW represents quality but cars do break down, lets be realistic. Even Japanese ones do - my bro.inlaw's Carina's gearbox went costing £££s - does that make Carinas unreliable? Of course not.
Lets be realistic, folks, there is less difference in reliability between most marques than many people think.
Splodgeface
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Going back a few years I thought VW as King.Ive had Gti,s etc boughtdemostator van with warranty only to be told rear oil seal leakage not expensive enough to claim under -parts less than £25 total £275)(we are talking about less than 15000 miles)
Japanese vehicles since have been outstanding and I don't wont to go back to VW.
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I think VW group are increasingly sourcing parts from lower-cost facilities in Eastern Europe. When peering under a 2003 petrol Passat last week in noticed that the throttle body/pot assembly had a 'Made in Hungary' paper tag on it.
Driving a brand new Polo a few months ago it suffered a complete ignition failure in the middle of town and had to call a dealer for it to be trailored away. Never found out what the exact fault was, but I suspect ECU failure.
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Made in Hungary? Like the whole of the Audi TT then...
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A bloke at work bought himself a Golf V6 4-Motion. A very quick car but the build quality is appaling. The dashboard sounds like its about to fall onto your lap, all the seats squeek, the thing rides as if the suspension is non existent, the paint finish is awfull and the climate control is in such a stupid place you can't even see the screen without bending down.
My mother in laws golf is even worse with the whole roof lining falling down as she was driving, the electric windows hardly ever work and the auto gearbox failed at 35,000.
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I think VW group are increasingly sourcing parts from lower-cost facilities in Eastern Europe. When peering under a 2003 petrol Passat last week in noticed that the throttle body/pot assembly had a 'Made in Hungary' paper tag on it.
The location may have changed, but the supplier hasn't. Most of the major automotive component and systems manufacturers have been moving East because of subsidies to move there and cheaper labour. It's the same name, using the same methods to manufacture the same components, just in a different place. There's no reason to suppose that, just because that place happens to be Hungary, the quality will be any different.
I suspect the real issue with quality - and not just at VW - is the pressure the car manufacturers put their suppliers under to produce at lowest cost. This is exactly how VW landed itself in the soup with the ignition coil problem, but it is not alone in squeezing suppliers until the pips squeak.
Why do they produce at lowest cost? So they can make a better profit out of a cheaper car, which we demand s consumers because we want bargains. But what kind of bargain is it that later costs a fortune to repair?
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My wife drives a 1999 VW Golf. It was imported new from Belgium, but was made in Brazil (as around 25% of UK-supplied Golfs are, I am told, with 40% from beligium and the rest from Germany/South Africa).
The car has covered 31,000 miles without fault. No rattles, no breakdowns, no leaks, no bother, but below-average dealer service (not too pricey either-a surprise!). Only issue is the sensitivity to road camber-car always pulls slightly to left even though on completely falt ground it is 100% OK.
Would I buy another?:
Yes.
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>>was made in Brazil (as around 25% of UK-supplied Golfs are,
Interesting, I used to work in that plant.
One of the things that benefit the cars is the way that KPIs are handled. In Europe these figures tend to be fudged and bent and shaded to acheive the right targets.
The same KPI acheivements are then expected from the Brazilian plants. However, the Brazilians typically think that they are accurate and then strive to acheive something which in truth is not acheived in Europe - consequently their cars tend to be quite good.
The same is true of GM & Renault where I also did some work. And, interestingly, the engine for the new mini which was being built by a plant joint owned by BMW and Chrysler, although this may have changed by now since it was always an uneasy partnership even before Chrylser/Daimler.
Now mexican built cars on the other hand..........
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I don't think that VW offering 50% towards parts and labour is generous at all. I think you could 'discuss' how much more they'd like to contribute as it is not something expected to fail in such a short period after your warranty is it? As you said yourself, it's a little silly ..
Is it 'reasonable' to go wrong?
Not as clear cut as our video which went (completely) wrong 14 months after purchase. That was replaced for free. Or the washing machine 18 months after purchase which was replaced (and upgraded as it was no longer made) for free too.
Not the same exactly I know but you get the picture...
rojer@lycos.co.uk
Astra, Renault 18, Renault 25 TXi, Astra Est, Passat Est, Mercedes 190E, Mercedes
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Oh dear...and I thought were the roads in Lisbon that give a hard time to all these bright new heavily paid cars (bargain? which bargain?).
It seems to me that from now and on you could start thinking the older something was (car, motorcycle, fridge...) the better it was made. Yes indeed, a couple decades ago the car could not tell you the flavours of your sandwich or the temperature of your coffee but the few things they were designed to do they were doing them better faster and longer.
As far as I am consearned my NEW car is going to be an OLD car.
Stavros
1979 BMW R65
1985 MkII Golf
2001 Audi A3
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>> I think VW group are increasingly sourcing parts from lower-cost >> facilities in Eastern Europe. When peering under a 2003 petrol >> Passat last week in noticed that the throttle body/pot assembly >> had a \'Made in Hungary\' paper tag on it. The location may have changed, but the supplier hasn\'t. Most of the major automotive component and systems manufacturers have been moving East because of subsidies to move there and cheaper labour. It\'s the same name, using the same methods to manufacture the same components, just in a different place. There\'s no reason to suppose that, just because that place happens to be Hungary, the quality will be any different. I suspect the real issue with quality - and not just at VW - is the pressure the car manufacturers put their suppliers under to produce at lowest cost. This is exactly how VW landed itself in the soup with the ignition coil problem, but it is not alone in squeezing suppliers until the pips squeak. Why do they produce at lowest cost? So they can make a better profit out of a cheaper car, which we demand s consumers because we want bargains. But what kind of bargain is it that later costs a fortune to repair?
Morris Ox
I work as a engineering consultant in the motor industry (e.g. I\'m flying to Munich on Sunday to spend a week at BMW). I can tell you that much of the stuff coming out of Eastern Europe does not match up to German quality standards. A year ago I was at a GM supplier in Nysa (Poland) and they were having all sorts of quality problems. Employee skills, training and work attitude matter a lot - Eastern European plants often have problems in one or more of these areas.
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My mates beetle, (new shape) is pretty well screwed together (just thought i'd add that)
Stevo........1983 (A) Vauxhall Astra MK1 1.3. 1993 (K)Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0i. 1999 (T) Renault Lagun
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I don't think there's an intimate correlation between the origin of the car, how well assembled it is, and the likelihood of individual component failure. This is especially true when you consider how high a percentage of components are sourced from common third-party suppliers.
My Honda will never suffer any dashboard squeaks, but still needs a new steering rack at just 36k - fortunately in its last month of manufacturers warranty. Modern cars are complex machines, and they all - Japanese included - have the potential to go wrong occasionally. One reason why mine will be disposed of shortly...
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My brother works for a VW franchise.
He's been there since January and for him the most surprising observation has been the number of cars that come back with faults. Several customers have rejected cars due to numerous faults.
It does'nt seem to be specific to one model but did notice the VW Sharon was in the bottom part of the JD power survey.
My friends Beetle had a new engine fitted after just 2000 miles. It had high oil consumption. The dealer could not trace the fault so new engine was fitted.
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VW cars have not become less reliable, but perhaps other manufacturers have raised the standard. The problem is that the brand is marketed as having superior reliability and quality and I don't see any real evidence of this.
It was claimed that VW workers used to say the cheapest hand-built car in the world was a Golf, as it needed lots of retification at the end of the assembly line.
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