Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Sat 7 Apr 2018 10:22
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - Joel Beavon

Hello,

I am looking for advice on the best car to purchase out of the 3 above.

I know the Focus is a very different car, but I am really looking for a car that is fun to drive day to day, can be modded and upgraded easily and is fun on a track day. I have narrowed it down to these 3 options, but want to know opinions on which will be most fun/reliable/interesting to drive.

Thanks in advance!

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Sat 7 Apr 2018 12:23
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - veloceman
Don’t you think you need to be sensible.
A nice Yaris CVT or Jazz will suit you better.
Maybe push the boat out and get a 1.8 civic.
Don’t forget no larger than 14inch wheels with tall tyres for comfort!
;-).
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Sat 7 Apr 2018 13:09
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - SteveLee

The Focus is the best road car - most refined - with the best suspension, but is a bit nose heavy on track - easily the fastest when modded, will probably be the most reliable of this trio too.

The RS197 is a tried and tested chassis and engine - niggly problems aside - fairly robust, probably the best handling of the bunch unmodded.

The Mini is the most likely to break-down and suffer expensive issues. It's probably the most exciting one to drive on a track, but like most exciting things - it won't be very exciting after it's broken for the fifth time and you're fighting the urge to torch it.

All three cars are likely to be bought and run by young petrol heads and will therefore suffer from the usual maladies, poor servicing, low quality mods.

I'd start with a car as standard as possible and mod it myself - rather than buy something already modded that has had the life thrashed out of it. You're more likelyto find a good Focus becasue a) there's more of them and b) many were bought buy middle-aged men recaputuring their youth so a more likely to have been looked after. There's a reasonable chance, like most fast Fords, the Focus RS will become an appreciating classic. The same can be said for the Clio but to a lesser extent.

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Sat 7 Apr 2018 13:16
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - Miniman777
Don’t you think you need to be sensible.


No, he clearly wants some fun!

R53 Cooper will be up to 2006 with supercharger, so bear in mind the age and gremlins that will creep in. Issues will be paintwork, gearbox, radiator corrosion and the electric steering rack failure. Find a well-cared for one - with a panoramic roof - and you will have fun. Some parts can be silly prices.

Focus - very much a elder boy racer car. Being Ford, should be cheap to repair. Is this the model with the 2.5l engine, as it is a bit thirsty. Latest versions I like a lot.

Clio - Hmm. We had a 52 plate clio in the family (against my advice) and it was a bag of you know what. Electrical issues neeeding part loom replacement, sun roof leaked (they all do!), would start when it wanted to, and accelerator/throttle body issues. Again, likely to be abused, though have seen several mint examples.

You have to drive them all really. Good luck

Edited by Miniman777 on 07/04/2018 at 13:18

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Sat 7 Apr 2018 14:14
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - SLO76
All three would be fun if you can find a half decent example but at this sort of money I’d be more concerned with condition than which one. That said and if all things were equal the Focus would be by far the most robust with the supercharged Mini firmly in last place. Driver appeal is high in all three but the Focus is a bit flat performance wise especially as a track tool. The Clio would be my choice on the track.
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Sat 7 Apr 2018 21:42
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - veloceman
Yeah, but not sure fun is allowed on this forum!
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Sun 8 Apr 2018 08:29
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - SLO76
Yeah, but not sure fun is allowed on this forum!

You upset cos we don’t tell everyone looking for £3k worth of reliable family hatch to go buy an Alfa or worn out BM 330?
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Sun 8 Apr 2018 08:48
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - badbusdriver
Yeah, but not sure fun is allowed on this forum!

You upset cos we don’t tell everyone looking for £3k worth of reliable family hatch to go buy an Alfa or worn out BM 330?

No accounting for that kind of mentality SLO, but i suspect he is also upset because of the comments directed towards Alfa Romeo on a previous post (note the username)

Also seems to be completely oblivious to the point of this particular forum.

If he can't make any useful comments other than childish barbs here and there, maybe he should find a forum which favours the kind of cars he does?

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 09:15
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - gordonbennet

I think you could have a fast car both cheaper to and just as competent in the first place and possibly more reliable due to more rugged design.

Thinking of Volvo S40 T5, Mazda 3 MPS, some Subarus, but there are many others.

Subarus are more fun for me because you just can't beat that superb full time 4WD system especailly in less than idea conditions, but be aware that system doesn't allow wheelspin so if you are very hard on the transmission an expensive breakage (usually the gearbox strips its gears) will happen where vehicles with less grip have an easy to provoke wheelspin 'fuse' fitted.

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 09:57
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - Falkirk Bairn

The OP is looking at trying to buy a 12+yr old performance car on a modest budget.

I am sure that there are good 12 year old performance cars out there but finding one is the tricky thing.

In a modest budget look at a modest petrol car - it could be more reliable. A modest petrol car that starts & stops wins over a car that is constant trouble.

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 10:49
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - argybargy

No particular expertise to dispense regarding the OP, but the Focus is the one I would choose, purely based on the excellent qualities of the base model.

I've not heard of STs breaking down (unless they're fiddled with) and I see plenty of examples of all vintages on the road, so they obviously last. You can have fun with a Focus ST and/ or do more mundane things that other cars don't do so well.

So whilst admittedly knowing nothing about the other cars, that would be my choice.

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 11:03
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - badbusdriver

With track days having become so popular there will be potentially a lot more people after a low budget candidate.

But for a track day tool, you need to be looking at more than just power, you need light weight and good balance. The focus ST has plenty of power (as well as that lovely 5cyl warble!), but is relatively heavy and with that big 2.5 lump out front may be prone to understeer more than the OP's other choices (of course, if that is an issue, it could probably be dialled out to an extent with suspension mods). Having said that, if this car has also to perform family car duties, the focus, being bigger and with 5 doors, would be better, especially compared to the mini. Also, being a turbo, the ST will be cheaper to extract more power from than a n/a alternative, such as the clio.

If practicality was not a major factor, simpy for the track day element, i'd favour the clio out of the OP's choices

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 14:02
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - SLO76
Just realised we’re talking about the Mk II Focus ST. Certainly not slow so scrub my previous comment. Great things with plenty of slug from that Volvo 5cyl T5.
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Sun 8 Apr 2018 15:36
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - veloceman
Not upset at all mr BBD and Mr SLO.

Was supposed to be tongue in cheek comments though maybe a little mischievous.
Note the winky face at the end.
I Was just having a laugh -or trying!

- If I have offended I apologise.

I certainly wouldnt touch an old beemer myself.
I do run a 19yr old Alfa but wouldn’t dream of using it as my everyday driver!
From experience I have run lots of Alfa’s over the last 30yrs and had very few problems.
Certainly no more than any other brand. But I also acknowledge there is no smoke without fire.

I respect most comments on this forum especially from you Mr SLO (which I have previously benefited from your advice) and always read with interest.

I do get a bit frustrated when some folks on here are constantly having a go at other people’s preferences, even insulting sometimes and don’t listen to any other opinions but their own.

We are all different and entitled to spend our money how we wish whether it be on rubber band tyres or choosing to buy via PCP, whether be Italian, French or Korean.

I am a car guy through and through and always look forward to trying different loan/hire cars when the need arises always giving them a fair go. I rented a Kia Sportage in for two weeks in Canada last year and have been enthusing about it ever since - an excellent car.

As Mr Spock would say - Live long and Prosper!












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Sun 8 Apr 2018 15:55
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - SLO76
“If I have offended I apologise.”

No offence taken.

“I do run a 19yr old Alfa but wouldn’t dream of using it as my everyday driver!
From experience I have run lots of Alfa’s over the last 30yrs and had very few problems.
Certainly no more than any other brand. But I also acknowledge there is no smoke without fire.”

I love Alfa’s too, I’ve flogged a few but I’m careful about who I sold em to. They need an enthusiastic owner in their dotage who accepts there will be bills bigger than the cars value.

“We are all different and entitled to spend our money how we wish whether it be on rubber band tyres or choosing to buy via PCP, whether be Italian, French or Korean.”

Agree totally. It takes all types. If the world were full of clones with identical taste it’d be a dull old place and who would I argue with?

Edited by SLO76 on 08/04/2018 at 15:59

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 15:55
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - Engineer Andy
Just realised we’re talking about the Mk II Focus ST. Certainly not slow so scrub my previous comment. Great things with plenty of slug from that Volvo 5cyl T5.

Same engine in the Mazda3 MPS isn't it? Of any of theses, I'd always look for the non-modded OEM ones in good condition - much more likely to last than one that's been modded, where the owner may (mistakenly) want a premium for the 'privilege' of buying his or her 'baby'...

Personally, depending upon the OP's budget (none I've seen as yet), I'd rather buy a Honda Civic Type R (unmodded OEM version) of the late 2005/6 variety. Brilliant fun on a budget and very reliable. I almost bought one when I got my (ordinary, not MPS) Mazda3 back in 2006 - the Civic Type R back then was only £2-3k more than the Sport (1.6 110hp) 3dr.

Just not many un-modded ones left now...not sure about the 2007-11 model (not so well thought of if I recall).

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 16:06
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - SLO76
“Same engine in the Mazda3 MPS isn't it?“

Surprisingly no, It’s Mazda's own 4cyl 2.3 L series 16v with a stonking great turbo bolted on. A rocket but with 4wd instead of Ford’s fwd only ST. Quite different to drive and has less aural appeal than the 5cyl Volvo lump but as a cheap performance bargain it’s hard to beat. It will never however have the classic appeal old fast Ford’s gain as they age. Buy a nice standard 3dr Mk II ST Focus for the right money today and maintain it properly and you could see zero or negative depreciation.
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Sun 8 Apr 2018 17:08
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - badbusdriver

"Just not many un-modded ones left now...not sure about the 2007-11 model (not so well thought of if I recall)."

Yes Andy, the later car was heavier, had less sophisticated rear suspension, and barely any more power (1bhp!). As a track day weapon the earlier car would surely be better.

Of course an Integra Type R would be even better.........!

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Sun 8 Apr 2018 19:02
Mini Cooper S R53 vs Clio 197 vs Ford Focus ST M2 - Engineer Andy

"Just not many un-modded ones left now...not sure about the 2007-11 model (not so well thought of if I recall)."

Yes Andy, the later car was heavier, had less sophisticated rear suspension, and barely any more power (1bhp!). As a track day weapon the earlier car would surely be better.

Of course an Integra Type R would be even better.........!

Loved the look of the Integra (and extra 40bhp!), especially the 'mk2' that only appeared in the UK as imports, which wasn't a surprise as all it would do is take sales away from the Civic Type R. Across the road from my fave holiday destination is a little independent garage, and the owner used to run one of these (bright orange) for a good few years.

I actually liked the Integra Type S (available in North America and Japan), same looks but without the huge rear spoiler but still 160bhp like the 5dr Civic of that era (sham the 3dr Sport didn't come in that variant). A modder's dream car to work on too.

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