Notice to driver ppc

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
View Threaded
Sat 17 Feb 2018 22:38
Notice to driver ppc - H1988

Hi all has anyone ever experienced this?

Issued a penalty charge notice in the form of a ticket. However the driver was not aware of the ticket being placed on the car as was not on the vehicle when the car was retrieve.

Driver was only aware of the charge when the notice to keeper was received.

Here is the thing the NTK showed that there was a NTD on the car in the picture.

Where do I stand on this

Many thanks

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 17 Feb 2018 23:06
Notice to driver ppc - RobJP

You either pay (or get the driver to pay) or you risk being taken to court for payment - and the court costs too.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 17 Feb 2018 23:40
Notice to driver ppc - SLO76
Was it an invoice from a private parking firm or a state penalty from the police or traffic warden? I’ve had several of the former over the years and paid not one penny to them.

Typically you’ll get 3-4 letters threatening action then a final one or two from a supposed debt collection agency then silence as they accept you’re not going to partake in handing over money for being a few minutes late back after shopping in their store then nipping into a cafe or otherwise.

It would cost them too much to take you Court to collect on one ticket or even two or three but don’t take it as a get out of paying forever card as there are numerous high profile cases of people running up loads of tickets and thousands in invoices which will then make taking you through the courts worthwhile. They can’t add huge legal fees to a small unpaid invoice thus it’s unvialbe to drag you through court.

If however it’s a state fine then pay up, it’s not worth fighting on a technicality.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 08:40
Notice to driver ppc - Bromptonaut

Start point is whether an infirngement occurred.

If it did AND ticket was issued by a council or police warden pay up immediately while there is still a discount available for doing so. If there is defence - and the dissapearing ticket is not a defence - then make representations per instruction with NtO and consider going to tribunal if represntations rejected.

DO NOT IGNORE it will go to Bailiffs. The debt will multiply to many times the penalty and provided you've got assetts you will have to pay.

If it's private land/contractual invoice territory then the action suggested by SLO76 is available but be careful. Since the Beavis case in the Supreme Court parking companies in England have been much more willing to use the small claims process where court costs are relatively low. SLO is in Scotland where both the law and the economics of court process may be different.

As to the ticket being lost who knows what happened. Maybe somebody removed it for a jape. Mrs B drove from Leeds to Northampton with one under the wiper of her Berlingo, because the wiper parks below the driver's line of sight she only found it when she got home. If it'd been wet on the journey and the wiper used it would have blown away. Possibly seen but since she knew she'd prepaid (the ticket was issued becuase of a cock up in the pre-payment process) she'd likely have thought it an advertising flyer and been unsighted until the NTO arrived. .

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 09:34
Notice to driver ppc - SLO76
“SLO is in Scotland where both the law and the economics of court process may be different.”

Correct and it’s common practice up here to ignore them unless you’ve racked up enough to make taking you to court viable. Not sure of the details of how the law differs south of the border but I’ve had 3 in the last ten years and despite the threatening letters no court action occurred, no Balifs arrived and no damage was done to my credit rating. There are a few high profile cases of people being taken to litigation over large accumulated unpaid parking invoices though (usually running into thousands) and I would read up a bit more before being as relaxed about it if you live elsewhere.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 11:24
Notice to driver ppc - Falkirk Bairn

Scotland rules - Police or traffic warden - pay up unless you have a valid complaint.

Scotland Rules - Private parking Invoice - 99%+ safe to ignore as they can threaten Sheriff's officers after court BUT cannot really go to court. In Scotland they can only try & take the driver to court. HOWEVER, in most cases they know the owner of the car from DVLA but this is not same same as saying thhat they drove the car & there is no compulsion for the owner to admit who the driver was.

The Private Parking Company claim they have a contract with the driver BUT do not have any contract with the owner unless he/she admits to driving. Ignore all correspondence & they give up @ letter 4/5.

Brand new Local Hospital (8 years ago)had 3 hour limit but the parking company gave up after 3/4 months as next to nobody paid their invoices & there has been no attempt to try again.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 09:51
Notice to driver ppc - Engineer Andy

One question I'd like to ask that may be very pertinent to this case is this: do tickets HAVE to by law be placed on a vehicle to make the PCN legal, if one is sent to the owner of the vehicle in the post, say if someone else (not a parking warden) reports (with time/date stamped photographic evidence) a vehicle breaking the rules? Does it make any difference if the situation pertains to a public car park or road, or private land?

The parking control firm my housing development currently uses says they can, via our (different) estate managment company, do this, i.e. in between their own operative's visits for repeat offenders.

We actually do have a genuine problem with residents (and some commuters) parking their cars where they are not allowed (in the lease and TP1 agreements with residents), leading to a lack of visitor spaces, blocked roads for delivery and refuse lorries, as well as emergency vehicles, but we want everything to be above board and legal (we do insist as estate directors in having the power to rescind any tickets we think have been unfairly given out and have done).

This sitaution may apply to the OP, so it would be handy if someone in the know on a legal standpoint gives some clarity. I think it's far better to have the ticket on the car to at least give the 'offender' time to do something about it, rather than potentially be served with multiple PCNs without realising they've done something wrong, at least the first time.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 10:57
Notice to driver ppc - Bromptonaut

Andy,

Pressed for time so cannot re up statutes etc but:

Most enforcement on private land is done by camera and without a ticket being left on the vehicle. While I cannot point definitively to Act/clause I suspect it's in the Protection of Freedoms Act which banned clamping on private land. If legality were at issue it'd have been challenged by now.

I also think there was a Traffic Management Act in dying years of Labour Govt that legalised camera detection for Local Government. Eric Pickles as Local Government Minister in coalition tried to get that changed but I think he was told to get his tanks of the Dept for Transport's lawn and it went nowhere - I could be wrong though.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 17:21
Notice to driver ppc - KJP 123

I think Bromptonaut’s point that since the Beavis case the law has been reinterpreted needs emphasising: this was a test case that went all the way to the Supreme Court.

Before it was assumed that a private penalty could not enrich the issuer only compensate them for their loss; so if parking for 2 hours was £2 and you stayed an hour over that it would be £1 (plus maybe an admin fee).

What was successfully argued in Beavis was that a deterrent fee could be charged. Eg it was a legitimate business aim to free up spaces after an allocated time so that other customers could use them.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 18 Feb 2018 17:49
Notice to driver ppc - FP

It's worth pointing out that in the case of Parking Eye vs. Beavis the amount in question was fixed at £85.

This was after an appeal to the Supreme Court, where it was decided that a clause in any parking contract demanding a charge for breaking its terms (and thus acting as a deterrent) would be acceptable if it ‘serves a legitimate purpose’ and is not ‘manifestly excessive’.

So the present situation is not a free-for-all.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link