Dropped kerb

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 13:39
Dropped kerb - Satvir singh
Hi,

One of my neighbours has paid a fee to have the kerb in front of his house dropped. Many of the surrounding houses have been using the dropped kerb to get their vehicles onto the foot paths in front their houses/drives.

In my case I use the dropped kerb and then park my vehicle on my drive, not obstructing the any footpath, any drive or the dropped kerb. I’m considerate enough to know that I shouldn’t park in front of the dropped kerb because that will obstruct him from getting his vehicles of his drive.

Yesterday he waited for me to arrive home, sure enough I used the dropped kerb and parked my vehicle on my drive, obstructing/blocking nobody, he came over and said something along the lines of “I haven’t spent £2500 for everybody to use my drive” and that if wanted to park my vehicle on my drive I should spend £2500 and drop my kerb.

My question is does he have the right to tell people they can’t use the dropped kerb? Does he own the dropped kerb and the footpath leading from/to it? His wording was very particular in the way he said “I haven’t spent £2500 for everybody to use MY DRIVE”. Is the dropped kerb and footpath “his drive”? Is it his land, his property?

I didn’t make a scene with him and just agreed not to fall out, but I have the inkling that he doesn’t own the kerb or the footpath and that I’m doing nothing wrong/illegal by using the kerb as I am to park my vehicle on my drive. But I would like something in writing from the council to confirm this. So if I continue using the dropped kerb (not blocking or obstructing any bodies drive and the footpath) I can hand him something concrete saying I’m doing nothing wrong. (have emailed the council but thought id ask here too)

Sat
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Sat 30 Sep 2017 15:15
Dropped kerb - bathtub tom

I don't know if the offence of 'mounting the footpath' is still on the statute books, but I'm sure it's illegal to drive along the footpath.

Without a dropped kerb, there's nothing to prevent the council or utilities erecting something in front of your driveway - street light, road sign, telegraph pole etc.

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 15:59
Dropped kerb - focussed

This reminds me of the odd situation we experienced when we bought our second house in 1973. It was a new detached house with an attatched single garage on a new unfinished estate. Having moved in we noticed that the dropped kerb to get access to the garage wasn't in line with the garage, it was in line with the front door!

So off to the site foreman and he arranged to have one side of the dropped kerb moved, we then paved the bit in line with the front door so we got a double-width dropped kerb and a double-width driveway for the cost of some paving slabs!

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 16:08
Dropped kerb - FP

Your neighbour does not own the kerb or the footpath, but the existence of the dropped kerb allows him to cross the footpath immediately outside his house to get his car on to his property.

Clearly, you are using it for another purpose, though I doubt there is any legislation that covers it, apart from what BT says about driving on the footpath.

Morally, I would say you're not in a good place and I would avoid winding up your neighbour over the issue. I feel you should bump your car over the kerb outside your own house.

It's even better to have a dropped kerb installed, which stops people blocking you in or preventing you from getting your car off the street.

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 18:06
Dropped kerb - concrete

Drop kerbs are very expensive for what they are. The problem is that local authorities insist you use an 'approved' contractor. This gets them off the hook for any future problems, but ensures the price from the 'approved contractors' cartel is much inflated. From the level of workmanship aroung here from 'approved' contractors I would not use any of them. They are very shoddy and no doubt if shoddy on the surface the foundation, which is the most important part will be of comparable lack of quality no doubt. Regarding your neighbour, it may be a nice idea to ask him over for tea or a beer and explain how much easier it is to cross his drop kerb to park your car. He may see reason, after all it's no skin off his nose really. If he insists you don't do this then you can ignore him and continue to use the kerb but you will fall out. There is precious little he can do legally. failing that it is putting in your own drop kerb. Good neighbour are a godsend, even awkward ones need to be handled nicely in order to maintain the peace, so tread lightly. Good luck.

Cheers Concrete

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 19:06
Dropped kerb - Palcouk

I have a dropped kerb and so does my neighbour, occassionally a van/delivery blocks my dropped kerb, I then use my neighbours dropped kerb, I dont have to drive along the footpath to do so.

It sounds like you have a somewhat 'dificult' neighbour, its unlikely you are comitting any offence, and there is nothing your neighbour can do about it, other than become more verbal.

PS The dropped kerb and pathway is not his property but the Council/Highways property

Edited by Palcouk on 30/09/2017 at 19:07

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 21:32
Dropped kerb - daveyjp
So you use a dropped kerb further along the row of houses and then drive along the pavement to access your drive? My advice is pay for your own dropped kerb access. They are provided to access the property it was provided for. If I had paid and this was happening I’d be reporting it to the Council/Police.

If any utility ducts collapse, or god forbid gas pipework gets fractured due to the weight of the vehicle passimg over you may not live to regret your actions.

A reason Councils have contractors is that dropping a kerb may also require services to be buried deeper.

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 22:56
Dropped kerb - Middleman

No, he does not own the dropped kerb or the bit of the footway that gives him access to his property. However, they have been provided solely for that purpose. What you are doing (driving on the footway) is actually against the law (Highways Act 1835). As soon as you drive off the part of the footway aadjacent to the dropped kerb you are committing an offence.

If your neighbour cuts up rough about this you wil find that the local council may ask the police to take action against you for the offence. If for no other reason they will be anxious to minimise damage to the footway (which is not designed to support vehicles). For the same reason you should not bump up the kerb to drive across the footway to access your property. The only way to do so legally is to have your own dropped kerb installed.

Edited by Middleman on 30/09/2017 at 22:58

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Sat 30 Sep 2017 23:48
Dropped kerb - bathtub tom

Just remembered that where my daughter lives, when the council put in a dropped kerb they also install vertical posts either side to prevent what the OP's about.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 08:59
Dropped kerb - oldroverboy.

So, just a thought, If it benefits you, why not give him a present of say £500 or so and say you appreciate what he has done and would that help? Especially if you don't have the readys available to pay £2500 for your own section.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 13:58
Dropped kerb - Middleman

Because he would still be committing an offence every time he drives on the footway. Paying £500 to be able to regularly commit a traffic offence is not a good idea.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 14:02
Dropped kerb - Simon

£2500??? Around here in the Midlands the local 'travelling gentlemen' charge around £700 to stick you a drop kerb in, in front of your house.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 14:33
Dropped kerb - Bromptonaut

£2500??? Around here in the Midlands the local 'travelling gentlemen' charge around £700 to stick you a drop kerb in, in front of your house.

But without permission from council you have problem referenced above where an offnce is committed every time you cross the footway. IIRC one of the London Boroughs had a clampdown on unoficial dropped kerbs and reverted them to riased form.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 16:20
Dropped kerb - RT

£2500??? Around here in the Midlands the local 'travelling gentlemen' charge around £700 to stick you a drop kerb in, in front of your house.

Illegally in most, if not all, places - the Highway Authority has to approve the work and is generally done by them.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 21:32
Dropped kerb - Simon
You have to apply to the council for permission, but you can have whoever you want to do the work.
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Sun 1 Oct 2017 21:45
Dropped kerb - RobJP
You have to apply to the council for permission, but you can have whoever you want to do the work.

No.

You can have any company licenced under NRSWA to do the work.

If you decided to get another company to do the work, and they did not do the job to the satisfaction of the council, then the council are entirely entitled to get the work done by themselves or another company, and to bill you (and take you to court for enforcement) for the costs of getting such work done.

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Sun 1 Oct 2017 23:04
Dropped kerb - Middleman

This is all very intersting but a trifle academic because, as far as I can see, the OP has no intention of having his own dropped kerb constructed. Instead he seems intent on using his neighbor's then illegally driving along the footway until he reaches his own property.

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Mon 2 Oct 2017 00:02
Dropped kerb - galileo

This is all very intersting but a trifle academic because, as far as I can see, the OP has no intention of having his own dropped kerb constructed. Instead he seems intent on using his neighbor's then illegally driving along the footway until he reaches his own property.

How about a couple of triangular-section pieces of wood to lay against his kerb to ease wheels up and over?

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Mon 2 Oct 2017 15:11
Dropped kerb - Middleman

I don't seem to be quite getting there, somehow:

How about a couple of triangular-section pieces of wood to lay against his kerb to ease wheels up and over?

Because he would then be driving over the footway which, in the absence of a properly constructed dropped kerb, is illegal.

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Mon 2 Oct 2017 16:27
Dropped kerb - FP

I think a lot of the discussion so far has unhelpfully focused on legal aspects; I don't say the advice is wrong, but in practice neither police nor local authorities devote any time to such matters - unless, for example, serious damage was caused to the footway.

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Mon 2 Oct 2017 17:42
Dropped kerb - Middleman

I think a lot of the discussion so far has unhelpfully focused on legal aspects;

The question was posed under "Legal Matters" but in any case I'm not so sure there are many non-legal aspects. The original question was whether the OP's neighbour had the right to deny him use of his dropped kerb. Of course he does not. But with that established there were attempts to find ways to facilitate the OP's continuing use of the footway for driving his car to gain access to his own property. The OP seemed (at least at the outset) to believe this is perfectly acceptable.

"...but in practice neither police nor local authorities devote any time to such matters - unless, for example, serious damage was caused to the footway."

The LA where I live most certainly do. They are often installing bollards (as described in one answer) which prevent drivers straying from the dropped kerb) anad take action against people who damage the footways. Whilst my advice took that into consideration I don't think a forum like this should be advising drivers on how to break the law - however trivial an offence (and I believe that driving on the footway is in no way trivial) it may seem.

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Mon 2 Oct 2017 18:14
Dropped kerb - concrete
You have to apply to the council for permission, but you can have whoever you want to do the work.

Not around here you can't. As Rob pointed an approved contractor is required, but most councils have their own list of approved contractors. This is presumably because they have the required insurance cover should anything go wrong. This is for the councils benefit not yours. If they do a shoddy job you are on your own with the small claims procedure, as my unfortunate nieghbour found out.

The most important part of the dropped kerb is the sub-kerb which supports it. If this is constructed properly then the whole job should go well. The next part is the finish. Good level kerbs and a nice flat tarmac or slab pavement with a gradient. Not all achieve this.

The legal aspect is an absolute. The law clearly prescribes the road and pavement and their use. However in reallity of course these laws are rarely if ever enforced, especially on residential roads.

Like I said, just smooze your nieghbour or install your own.

Cheers Concrete

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Thu 5 Mar 2020 16:57
Dropped kerb - Shaban Halil
Sat, what was the outcome? What did your local authority say? I’m interested to find out
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Thu 5 Mar 2020 18:11
Dropped kerb - Middleman
Sat, what was the outcome? What did your local authority say? I’m interested to find out

You'll be lucky to get a reply from the OP when the thread concluded, to all intents and purposes, two and a half years ago and where the OP has not been heard from since.

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Wed 17 Nov 2021 23:18
Dropped kerb - DavMcC

That is a shame as I have literally just stumbled across this forum as I am experiencing this same issue with a neighbour using the dropped kerb I recently got installed to drive up and then drive across the footpath to access their property further down and was looking for advice. Obviously having to save up for over a year to get a dropped kerb Installed and for a driveway was not easy for me but we were advised there was a parking scheme to be implemented on our street to address parking issues etc.

Residents were offered a discounted drop kerb as the local authority and local housing association were accessing a fund for a parking scheme where all the old cracked pavements and grass verges were to be replaced with new pavements and road resurfacing, and at the properties who did not already have a dropped kerb access or anyone who did not get one installed, there would be “grasscrete” put in place and barriers up to protect the new pavements to not allow anyone to cross the footpaths, and even went far as to say that after this work was competed if anyone then caught parking on gardens/driveways with no legal crossing would be enforced.

A lot of mine and my neighbours properties have used our front garden for years as there was no safe off street parking and as we did not want to have this concrete block parking options with bollards across the end of our gardens stopping us parking did everything we could to get a drive put in and dropped kerb and approved all before the cut off date. To our surprise bollards were not put in place surrounding the concrete base parking but they were not put in place or intended tor people to cross over into their properties.

The actual installation of that concrete patch meant no crossing the path way. My neighbour who I have just had a very upsetting experience with has now not only used the dropped kerb and continued up across the pathway to access their property, they have used the drop kerb to drive into my actual driveway to access a gap in some fence posts to drive through to access their garden! My neighbours property is a corner house so can actually access the other side of their garden and have a paved area there but as they have two large DPD vans blocking that access think it’s ok to now use the dropped kerb to access my garden to cut through to theirs! They rent the property and I have no contact with the landlord. I don’t usually speak to them. As it’s now dark at 4pm ish I can see from my upstairs window car lights etc. I was in my front bathroom and saw red lights coming across my driveway ( not the dropped kerb) but as the glass is frosted i jumped into the landing to look out the window the catch the tail end of next doors car entering their garden off my gravel driveway (driving over my wood sleeper edging) through a gap between some old fence posts. in disbelief at what I was seeing I went down and opened the front door to hopefully catch them before they went inside.

In a very calm tone and not agressively at all said “excuse me? ... did you just drive over garden/driveway? It was a man who ive never really seen before ( they have several family members) and he literally launched into this rage at me and tbh was talking so quickly and aggressively that I could not hear everything he said clearly but he would not stop shouting at me... called me racist?! ... I somehow managed to keep my cool still in belief tbh what he was doing and kept calmly Tryin to say “will you please let me speak?” But I was cut off and he kept shouting ... I was trying to just at this point trying to speak to him and say that I’m not saying tori can’t use the dropped kerb but you can’t drive onto my garden and drive over it to get to your garden insisting he was legally entitled to as long as he wasn’t blocking anyone and insisting he was gonna carry on doing so..

I ended up walking away back to my door and he called me f**king stupid ... so I did again calmly say back there’s no need to be abusive ... I and I was so upset and shook up just went back inside and couldn’t. Stop shaking ... I really don’t know what to do ... I hate confrontation but I do feel like I can not let this go by and not address it .. I just don’t want any aggravation but this man was vile to me and I can’t allow them to just do what they like ...

I don’t understand why they can’t just park their vans further down as they Have plenty of room doesn’t that side of the toad as it’s the corner house and does not encroach on anyone else ... they used to drive on and off that way all the time (illegally, still, now the parking scheme and new pavements have also just been done) the concrete patch of parking where there is no dropped kerb directly in front of their property (which they have never used) is now where I will sometimes park a vehicle as my son has recently passed his driving test and has a nearly new car and wants to park on the drive. This is not blocking access to their property and they shouldn’t be parking as they have no legal crossing that way (or the other side of property for that matter but that’s the side they always use if their families dpd vans aren’t blocking it) I’m only mentioning about me parking a vehicle on this concrete park which is not allocated to anyone as they have never even used it, but in the mans rant he seemed to mention about the vehicle parked there means he can’t come up the dropped kerb opposite my driveway and drive down the path to get on his garden! So this was why he’s used my driveway?! Wtf ?! and he’s insisted it’s not illegal and he’s going to carry on doing it ...

help I actually want to keep the peace despite how vile he was to me and calling my a racIst which in itself was despicable! I said barely a sentence to him before he launched a verbal assault on me! ( I think cos I’m a woman has not helped with this issue??) my son has said he will speak to him but I don’t want him to make a scene which he understands but I do feel like this man needs to know that the way he spoke to me was completely unacceptable but he won’t engage with me calmly so I feel like another male may be the only option?

My son is a fair minded person too so he won’t be inappropriate but I feel at least May more effectively be able to get across that they can not use my “driveway” property to get onto his garden and legally actually has no right to cross the footpath legally to access his property by driving further down the path ... any advice?

Part of me what’s to make a complaint official incase there any escalations? but I don’t want to unnecessarily cause any more problems .. but I know this man will not speak to me in a decent manner ... and I’m scared he will start making up stuff maybe too?! ... help or advice appreciated

[inserted some paragraphs to make it a bit easier on the reader and therefore more likely to get some replies - mod]

Edited by Xileno on 18/11/2021 at 09:18

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Thu 18 Nov 2021 05:31
Dropped kerb - Brit_in_Germany

The simple non-agressive approach would be to place a pot plant on the sleeper edging.

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Thu 18 Nov 2021 09:07
Dropped kerb - 72 dudes

The simple non-agressive approach would be to place a pot plant on the sleeper edging.

Which the neighbour will simply move, or worse, smash.

I don't have any answers I'm afraid but it sounds like you are really upset by this so I would advise a discussion with a lawyer at the Citizens Advice Bureau.

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Thu 18 Nov 2021 09:33
Dropped kerb - Andrew-T

The simple non-agressive approach would be to place a pot plant on the sleeper edging.

As it's your garden, you could dig a trench big enough to trap a vehicle. I don't see how your neighbour could claim the right to cross that ?

And take some useful photos.

Edited by Andrew-T on 18/11/2021 at 09:35

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Thu 18 Nov 2021 19:47
Dropped kerb - DavMcC
Thanks for the reply :)

I actually love the plant pot idea .. made me smile!

Not enough room for a trench large enough to trap a car I’m afraid but Thankyou for the suggestion

Someone i know suggested moving my 3 wheelie bins there ...
bit of an eye saw for me though and will take up space on the drive side.

I’ve only just come home after a long day at work and feel exhausted cos I was so upset over this last night ... So they could have driven over it all day and night today and I wouldn’t have known!

On the positive though! they seem to have moved their big DPD van from their other access point on the side street where their paved parking area is! So maybe there is hope!

Edited by DavMcC on 18/11/2021 at 19:51

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Fri 19 Nov 2021 07:32
Dropped kerb - _

I had a vaguely similar problem witha neighbour a few years back, regarding putting up a fence on a boudary on garden, which the neighbour insisted on driving over.

There were two of the old concrete posts left, broken off at the top and bottom of the front garden where the old wire mesh fence had been. After getting nowhere asking nicely, I simply put up a fence so that it cleared the edge line of the centre of the old fence by about an inch. effectively my side of the old line.

I lost about7 inches of garden my side, but problem solved.

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