I would rather dazzle than be missed.
I tried riding on dipped beam and had more traffic risking pulling out on me.
Om full beam tey can't judge distance and have to leave a good safety margin.
Rude, but surely safer.
75 per cent of bike deats are caused by a car pulling out of a junction into the path of a bike. By defintion under 25 per cent must be caused by dazzle. (Mor elikely almost none)
As double proof of my point Iwas out with various bikes yesterday. In my mirror one on full beam stood head andshoulders over the rest. The difference in visiblilty was astounding.
You're a shower! You're an absolute shower!
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Darcy,
I use full beam (I'm talking other than normally) a) only when it's very bright and sunny, and b) only when filtering in near stationary traffic. It comes off immediately traffic begins to move. The reaction of most drivers is to see me and those with consideration pull over to the left away from the centreline.
This is on a dual carriageway, so oncoming cars aren't affected. Even if used sparingly on single carriage roads in such conditions (both weather and traffic), are you seriously saying that drivers are dazzled? This only happens at dusk/night/reduced visabilty.
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I can't say that I agree with the use of full beam. It is only likely to irritate and annoy car drivers, although I nearly always use headlight. When passing a queue of stationary traffic, always travel at a sensible slow speed that will enable you to stop if a car does decide to do a u turn / pull out. (Honda Pan 1100 & 1300 have headlight adjusters. Electricly on the 1300).
Reggie
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Blowpipe
I'm saying that the spread of light by headlights on full beam may affect my judgement of distance and speed. It may also hide other road users who don't have a powerful light illuminated. Yes, I agree the problem reduces in bright sunlight. And I think others use main beam all the time in and conditions without the thought you give to headlight use.
I'll see if my mind is changed when I actually get a bike and mix it with other folk on the highway. If I live that long ...
Darcy.
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A couple of years ago every other bike seemed to have a purple filter over their headlight which really caught your eye. What happened to them? I'm not a biker but I'm perfectly happy for bikers to whizz round on full beam. The number of accidents it prevents must far outweigh any accidents caused by a car driver being dazzled for a millisecond, if indeed there are any.
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I wear glasses and drive in a lot of heavy traffic with bikers coming past and I don't have a problem with bikes on full beam.
At the end of the day I'd rather be dazzled for a few seconds than pull out, not the biker and have someone fly across my bonnet.
If I'm in traffic I always pull over as far to the side of the road to let them all past anyway.
But to the biker to decided to buck the trend the other day and decided to undertake in heavy traffic and come past on the inside on a single carraigeway. Don't be a prat!
Chris
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Wish all drivers were as observant and considerant as yourself, Chris.
Why don't cars keep to the nearside? A line of traffic hogging the centreline is bizzare. That leads your reckless biker to see a taylormade lane on the nearside. No excuses, but you can see why it is tempting, especially when the other option is to take your chances with oncoming traffic and very little clearance.
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Yes, I can see the biker's point when you put it like that.
I'm not a biker, but I don't understand car drivers when they're crawling along at 5 mph and sticking rigidly to the centre line with a bike trying to get past.
It seems like deliberate blocking, but I guess some people just don't know what's going on around them.
Chris
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As someone who never rides with lights on, unless it's gloomy weather, I can't see the thinking behind riding on full beam, it really irritates me to be blinded even for a few seconds. If you don't feel safe, then take a car, and leave biking to those that ride with consideration for others. Seeing a bright light isn't the same as knowing how far away it is, or how quick it's moving.
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As someone who never rides with lights on, unless it's gloomy weather, I can't see the thinking behind riding on full beam,
It's to do with being more visible...
it really irritates me to be blinded even for a few seconds.
You get blinded in broad daylight by full beam? Even at night I can just about cope when someone forgets to dip! Your eyes *must* have a problem.
Seeing a bright light isn't the same as knowing how far away it is, or how quick it's moving.
But that's an advantage.
Advantages are:
1) You may be seen a lot further away.
2) If they can't judge your speed/distance they won't pull out and scare the life out of you.
3) Sometimes old people flash you. This is good becasue you can't be sure what they're warning you of and always start to think 4 times harder about potential dangers.
Advantages are safety related. Disadvantages are politeness related.
I spend 90 per cent of my time in a car. If someone want's to be rude to be in order to prolong their life then so be it.
If someone else prefers to ride on dip beam that's cool too.
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toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk
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Toad,
I find your attitude irresponsible and anti-social. I know we have discussed this before and my point is that you should not rely on your full beams to let everyone know you are there in case they pull out, but you should ride in a manner that lessens the chances that some one is going to run into you.
How often do you nearly get knocked off and more importantly where about on the road are you? If you are following behind a car in the middle of your lane, I am sure that there will not be a problem with being seen. However if you are darting up the middle of 2 lanes of moving traffic then the chances that you will get in someone's blind spot are very much higher.
I presume that you are breaking the law when going between two moving lanes. Why not just be more patient and wait till the car in front pulls over?
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I find your attitude irresponsible and anti-social. I know we have discussed this before and my point is that you should not rely on your full beams to let everyone know you are there in case they pull out, but you should ride in a manner that lessens the chances that some one is going to run into you.
Hi, MC. We have discussed this before. I vaugely agree about irresponsible and anti social bit.
I also agree with your comment about riding defensively, and trust me, I do.
How often do you nearly get knocked off
Never been nearly knocked off. Had a few pull out on me. It happens more on dipped. It happens less on full beam.
>>and more importantlywhere about on the road are you?
I tend to ride where my own view is best. Obviously I comprimise this position for road condition and junctions.
If you are following behind a car in the middle of your lane, I am sure that there will not be a problem with being seen.
Yes, but I can't just follow cars everwhere can I!!!
However if you are darting up the middle of 2 lanes of moving traffic then the chances that you will get in someone's blind spot are very much higher.
I presume that you are breaking the law when going between two moving lanes. Why not just be more patient and wait till the car in front pulls over?
You mean dual carriageway? Filtering is perfectly legal and Rospa/IAM will expect you to filter. As it happens I ride purely for pleasure and tend to stick as far as possible to SC NSL's. In the south east that means there are a lot of junctions, much less in Wales for instance.
To be honest CM I don't think we're really that far apart on this. I understand and respect your view. I have had this debate with myself before, and I started riding on dip beam so at one time I obviously agreed with your point of view.
Also (as another string to your argument) the Highway Code suggests bikers ride on dip with a white helmet nad day glo stripes. So it specifically says dip.
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toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk
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There's no point in going for advanced training if you don't learn anything. Defensive driving is the key to safety, not bludgeoning your way through traffic with full beam on. The only time I've been knocked of a bike was when the driver was turned around talking to his passenger, as he was turning right at a set of lights, no amount of lights would have made him see me. Having 'right of way' didn't protect me either, a lesson learned the hard way.
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There's no point in going for advanced training if you don't learn anything.
There is!!! It's a great laugh. You meet great people go on awesome rideouts, learn local twisties that you never knew existed!
no amount of lights would have made him see me
But if it saves your life 1 in a 1000 times it has to be worth it. Nobody is suggesting ful beam is a safety panacea. Jus tthat it makes you more visible.
Others, including many bikers, say too visible for comfort.
I think the reason this debate runs for ever is because the benifits and disadvantages are so marginal.
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toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk
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Yes, Toad, we know you want to be more visible. What some of us are trying to convince you of is that by adopting your defensive measures (full beam), while YOU may be more visible to car drivers, your actions may well make other road users LESS visible. Which in the give-and-take situation which busy roads have to be, means that you are being unfairly demanding.
And as has been already mentioned, it can be much more difficult (especially in darkness) to judge the distance of one brilliant lamp than it is to judge the distance of a pair of car headlamps - even if the bike has twin lamps.
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Apart from the main/dipped issue (and as a 80 mile daily rider I use dipped) many bikers turn out in dark leathers so that they are all but invisible from the rear or side.
If they are really concerned about safety rather than fashion, a luminous yellow over-jacket with reflective stripes would do a lot for their survival chances.
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There's no point in going for advanced training if you don't learn anything.
There is!!! It's a great laugh. You meet great people, go on awesome rideouts, learn new local twisties that you never knew existed! Awesome fun.
no amount of lights would have made him see me
But if it saves your life 1 in a 1000 times it has to be worth it. Nobody is suggesting ful beam is a safety panacea. Jus tthat it makes you more visible.
Others, including many bikers, say too visible for comfort.
I think the reason this debate runs for ever is because the benifits and disadvantages are so marginal.
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toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk
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CM
Are you saying that you honestly expect bikers to sit in heavy rush hour motorway traffic with all the cars when they can safely (with their lights on) go between lanes.
Chris
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No, I safely ride between cars with no lights on, every day, for miles, at a speed that allows me to react to problems.
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www.msgroup.org/TIP022.html
tinyurl.com/79tu
Growler, I\'ve fixed the link. Remember - for long links use the website tinyurl.com DD.
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CM Are you saying that you honestly expect bikers to sit in heavy rush hour motorway traffic with all the cars when they can safely (with their lights on) go between lanes. Chris
Of course not. What I was trying to say (and I think Toad got it) was that if you go between cars then this increases the dangers of being knocked off. It is a voluntary exposure which bikers have to weigh up and not automatically put the blame on car drivers.
Personally I would love to have the freedom of a bike but I am too scared.
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It's the nanny state meddling I don't like. You MUST have lights on all day, if you have two headlights you MUST have only one switched on in case other road user think you are a car miles away. Stop these stupid people using roads and we wouldn't need lights. What sort of road uers can't differentiate between a bike and a car?
Lights break up the outline of the vehicle, and break up the relationship between the vehicle and it's immediate environment, that's a danger in itself. As I said before, seeing a light isn't enough, you still have to judge the speed of the vehicle.
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What Big G says is the problem is not deciding if it's a bike or a car but so that the dozy cager can SEE it in the first place.
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"What sort of road uers can't differentiate between a bike and a car? "
I can't when I am on an unlit road and a car is coming towards me with only one headlight working!
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Darcy,
I normally ride with the headlamp on dip beam, but I am with blowpipe when it comes to filtering on the motorway. FULL BEAM and wish for MORE. You wouldn't belive the number of cars that try to get 1/2 a cars length further on by changing from lane 2 to 3 or Vicky Verkey. I would go between 1 and 2 but the trucks are so wide you cant fit through the gap.
Bill
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