Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Dingle232

Am just about to push the button on some new winter tyres for the 320d. I can get a set of Michelins (or premium equivalent) for around £120 each whereas a set of Vredesteins or Falkens are around £90 each. I believe that both of these are reputable but am bearing in mind I drive a RWD so need to cater for that if we get any of the white stuff.

I've no problem paying for stuff if it's worth it but what's the general view on this? Are the premiums worth the premium?

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - skidpan

Just bought 4 for the Mrs' new Nissan Note. Finally decided on Nokian WR D3 after looking at the alternatives. They have won several tests over the past 2 or 3 winters and finished well in the others. They were about £25 a tyre more expensive than the cheapest Chinese ditchfinder that got an appaling rating.

At the end of the day we buy winter tyres because they are safer and grip better. Why buy a tyre that is compromised for a small saving.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Dingle232

Just bought 4 for the Mrs' new Nissan Note. Finally decided on Nokian WR D3 after looking at the alternatives. They have won several tests over the past 2 or 3 winters and finished well in the others. They were about £25 a tyre more expensive than the cheapest Chinese ditchfinder that got an appaling rating.

At the end of the day we buy winter tyres because they are safer and grip better. Why buy a tyre that is compromised for a small saving.

Nokians are excellent. I spend my life working in Scandinavia and they know a thing or two about snow and that's what they all use. It was more a question of whether £30 quid a corner is actually worth it or do they all do the same

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - gordonbennet

I've run Vredestein Wintracs which were simply excellent, Nokian NRG2's which weren't as good (but their WR range is supposed to be the biz), we have Cooper Weathermaster for the Outback but the car grips that well anyway that any tyre would do TBH.

Daughters have run Vredestein Quatrac all seasons and haven't had any problems.

Tyrereviews link just about every european tyre test on the right hand side of their site, so well worth a perusal there.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - balleballe

I'll be getting some Michelin crossclimate's in a couple of weeks. The reviews seem very favourable.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Dingle232

Yeah I have been having a squiz at the review site and the very top level summary of what's best appears to favour the premium brands; with Continental being particularly well regarded. There's then a smattering of 'mid-brands with Falken and Vredestein.

I think that's part of my dilemma really - there appear to be good arguments for both so I wonder whether there's 'actually' that much difference or whether we're all being duped into tyre 'badge snobbery'.

Edited by Dingle232 on 20/10/2015 at 20:58

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - SteveLee

Winter tyres are a whole different ball game - traditionally "premium" tyre manufacturers aren't necessarily the best at making winter tyres which have always been more of a specialist area. Vredestein in particular have excelled in this area for decades. They may be cheaper than the “big” brands but as a winter tyre I’d expect them to be the best or thereabouts.

The other thing is winter tyres (even cheapo Chinese ones) will give you so much more grip than summer tyres it’s almost an irrelevance as you’ll have more grip than 90% of the cars around you in slushy snowy or just plain cold conditions.

Even “all season” tyres give you much more grip in the snow although clearly not as much as a full winter tyre – I fitted cheapo Chinese all-seasons to my missis’s C3, when the snow came I could drive it almost anywhere my Range Rover would go and overtook countless stuck cars on their premium summer rubber. Similarly I towed dozens of cars out of the company car park (it was on an incline) when the snow hit one afternoon with my old C5 shod with budget Nankang all seasons – one of the victims was an Audi 4WD saloon on summer rubber sitting there, stuck, all four wheels spinning uselessly.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Avant

I would steer clear of Continentals if I were you. I had a set of Continental winter tyres put on my car when it was new in Nov. 2013. In November last year I had an irreparable puncture (pothole) and Continental were unable to supply a new one of the correct size, despite ATS ringing round everywhere they could.

So not wanting two different makes of tyre on the same axle I had to buy two new tyres of another make (Kleber - excellent, and fortunately little more than half the price of one new Continental). I'll never have a Continental tyre again.

It doesn't matter how well they perform if they can't supply replacements when needed.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Dingle232

Interesting replies and very helpful. So the message seems to be something like a Falken Eurowinter HS449 or Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme would be equally as adept as their more expensive cousins from Conti and Michelin. Both get excellent reviews on tyrereviews.com.

If that's the case I am glad I posted as it's probably saved me between £120 - £160.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - SteveLee

Dunlop Wintersport 4Ds have a good rep - I don't particularly like Dunlops but 4Ds are supposed to be very good and are often available on good deals.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Dingle232

Ok - just orderd 4 x Vredestein Wintrac Extremes at £97/tyre. The equivalent Conti was £135 each.

On the xDrive 320d that should make for a pretty capable machine if we get bad weather.

Thank you for all the help.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - gordonbennet

Ok - just orderd 4 x Vredestein Wintrac Extremes at £97/tyre. The equivalent Conti was £135 each.

On the xDrive 320d that should make for a pretty capable machine if we get bad weather.

Thats what we had on the Hilux, the year i put them on it snowed heavily, our drive is steep but it went straight up in 6" of snow from a snowed underwheel standing start in RWD only, in 4WD it was virtually unsptoppable, i'm sure you will find you have chosen well.

Interestingly, the Wintrac doesn't have a particularly high wet grip score, but practical use proved those marks to be not necessarily true, something i have reservations and suspicions about those scorings.

On its OE Pirelli Scorpions the Hilux was skittish in the wet, not helped by its limited slip rear diff, so bad in fact that the demo we wanted to buy we couldn't because the salesman spun it on a roundabout and wrote it off, remember these are old school 4x4's not meant for permanent use in 4WD which when selected locks the centre diff.

I removed those at 1000 miles as too scary and sold them on, the Vred's went on when winter came, vehicle transformed, they would not slide at all, wet grip nothing short of superb whatever the temperautre, in fact so good were they that it used to be nearly summer before i was allowed to put the summer set on by SWMBO, who used the vehicle far more than i.

Just out of interest, i researched a lot and put a set of General UHP's on for summer set, they too proved to have excellent grip, every bit as good in the warm wet as the Vreds, really cheap too around £70 a tyre.

Good choice Dingle, you'll be trying to get the thing stuck when the snow arrives and failing miserably.

Edited by gordonbennet on 20/10/2015 at 23:06

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - SteveLee

You can't go wrong with Vredestein winter tyres - they're superb.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - RT

Dunlop Wintersport 4Ds have a good rep - I don't particularly like Dunlops but 4Ds are supposed to be very good and are often available on good deals.

I have a set ready to go when the temperature drops - they got good test reviews, that's all we have to go on.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - alan1302

Just bought 4 for the Mrs' new Nissan Note. Finally decided on Nokian WR D3 after looking at the alternatives. They have won several tests over the past 2 or 3 winters and finished well in the others. They were about £25 a tyre more expensive than the cheapest Chinese ditchfinder that got an appaling rating.

At the end of the day we buy winter tyres because they are safer and grip better. Why buy a tyre that is compromised for a small saving.

But the Vredesteins and Falkens aren't Chinese ditchfinder type tyres. They could be offering a good saving whilst still beinga quality tyre. Just not a big brand name like Michelin

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Mr Carrot Cake

I really dont see the point of winter tyres in the UK. They're good for 2 months if you're lucky. I'd rather just drive more carefully on my summer tyres than faff about buying extra wheels and tyres.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Avant

I'd have agreed with you, Carrot Cake, up to the time when I first had a car with 225/40/18 wheels and tyres (about 6 years ago). Until then I'd had FWD cars for years, and none got stuck in snow and ice.

I've a suspicion that the tyre manufacturers have moved to specifically 'summer' tyres to encourage us to buy another set for winter. But they'd deny it and it can't be proved.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Mr Carrot Cake

Well the issue there is the width of the tyres. Perhaps buying a set of narrower rims and tyres for winter would be a better option?

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - gordonbennet

Its true about the really wide low profiles with rock hard treads.

In the snow when loading Bini's, there would be 12 cars in the load lane for a lorry load, those on standard tyres would happily drive fine, those on low profiles with super wide treads you had a job to get them to move at all, this being a completely level yard at Cowley, the difference was astonishing.

You can't beat a good old 195/65 x 15, cheap as chips and in V rating good enough for autobahn storming.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - RT

Well the issue there is the width of the tyres. Perhaps buying a set of narrower rims and tyres for winter would be a better option?

You need to stick with what the car maker recommends - my VW Touareg came on 265/50 R19 tyres but the recommended winter tyre is 235/65 R17 - but many car makers don't list an alternative tyre size.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - SteveLee

Yes, in the "old days" standard tyres were more like what we call all season tyres now. Summer tyres have become just that. That said I've never managed to get stuck with any tyre in any conditions. Deep snow in my 370bhp Jag XJR with ultra wide tyres - no problem - it's all about anticipation and a sympathetic right foot.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - skidpan

Yes, in the "old days" standard tyres were more like what we call all season tyres now.

Agreed. Things changed in the early 80's when 60 profile tyres became more of a standard fitment.

Just bought 4 for the Mrs' new Nissan Note. Finally decided on Nokian WR D3 after looking at the alternatives. They have won several tests over the past 2 or 3 winters and finished well in the others. They were about £25 a tyre more expensive than the cheapest Chinese ditchfinder that got an appaling rating.

At the end of the day we buy winter tyres because they are safer and grip better. Why buy a tyre that is compromised for a small saving.

But the Vredesteins and Falkens aren't Chinese ditchfinder type tyres. They could be offering a good saving whilst still beinga quality tyre. Just not a big brand name like Michelin

I never said Vredestein and Falken are Chinese ditchfinders. As far as I know Vredestein are European and Falken are made in Japan. The brands I referred to as "Chinese Ditchfinders" were Goodride, Kormoran, Starmaxx, Imperial to name 4. For the record Vredestein and Falken don't do tyres in our size at Mytyres and other good brands are not much less less than the Nokian's, many are more expensive, Goodyear +£10, Bridgestone +£34 Hankook +£26.

Edited by skidpan on 21/10/2015 at 10:20

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - NorthernBoy

I really dont see the point of winter tyres in the UK. They're good for 2 months if you're lucky. I'd rather just drive more carefully on my summer tyres than faff about buying extra wheels and tyres.

i have been tempted by them but never sure if they are all that. As you say valid a couple of months of a year.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - gordonbennet

I think the 2 month thing is a valid point, its not the same choice for everyone, though to be fair they're not just for snow, the lower the temperature drops below 7' the greater the grip, where normal tyres lose more and more grip as it gets colder.

If you're going to keep your car for many years so get up to 6 or 7 seasons from them (on a second set of wheels for easy DiY change), or if you absolutely must get to work without fail, or you live in remote or snow bound areas, then they make more sense overall...whilst on your winter set the summer tyres arn't being worn nor are the nice wheels going to see any salt, also better on mud and loose roads than normal summer tyres.

For those who change cars regularly or don't need to travel then no they probably don't make sense, but if someone wishes to have the sure footed feeling when on snow and to a slightly lesser extent ice, then why not.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - skidpan

I really dont see the point of winter tyres in the UK. They're good for 2 months if you're lucky. I'd rather just drive more carefully on my summer tyres than faff about buying extra wheels and tyres.

i have been tempted by them but never sure if they are all that. As you say valid a couple of months of a year.

Driving more carefully is a sensible idea in poor conditions even on winter tyres (they don't magically turn you into a Scandinavian Rally Star) but in an emergency situation they can contribute to yours and others survival.

As for 2 months a year that is not correct. They might be called "winter tyres" but they start working at temps below 7 degrees C which is the point summer tyres give up. From November to the end of March my daily commute AM and PM is mostly below 7 degrees thus I benefit during that period. The stopping distance on wet roads below 7 degrees is also shorter so its not just snow they help on.

They also wear slower in cold conditions than summer tyres. Might seem bizzarre but its true. The tyres that came off the wifes Ceed have just been sold, 4 winters and approx 16,000 miles, tread down from 8mm to just below 7mm on 2 and just above 7 mm on the other 2. In 24,000 miles of summer use the Michelin Pilots were down to 4mm from 8mm. No need to work out the wear rates to see they wear slower.

But I am a convert and they work for us. Wife would not be without them after a few interesting car park situations before she retired, she was home having a cuppa whilst others were still digging and pushing.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Brit_in_Germany

I am still looking for proof of this magical 7° factor. My view is that winter tyres are only better on snow and ice. A summer tyre will stop quicker on both dry and wet surfaces even below 7°, this being based on an article in "Die Welt" reporting findings of test published in "Auto Bild Allrad".

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - skidpan

I am still looking for proof of this magical 7° factor.

7 Degrees is the figure the rubber is manufacturers to work at. Simple as that.

Summer rubber will not stop working below 7 degrees but it abilities are affected.

Same way the abilities of winter tyres above 7 degrees are affected.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Brit_in_Germany

Just had a read through Continental's latest press file for their winter road show. Even they, while repeating the 7° mantra, admit that summer tyres are better on dry and wet surfaces, with winter tyres only being of advantage on ice and snow.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Bolt

Just had a read through Continental's latest press file for their winter road show. Even they, while repeating the 7° mantra, admit that summer tyres are better on dry and wet surfaces, with winter tyres only being of advantage on ice and snow.

Never used winter tyres, a lot of certain driver problems come when they dont know how to drive in the snow/ice, as we dont often get bad weather, the drivers experience of snow and ice is limited to non existant

nearly all tyres are a compromise anyway between low rolling resistance and water clearance and low noise

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Mr Carrot Cake

So basically winter tyres are a waste of money in the UK where most snow and ice is turned to water by the gritters before we get a chance to drive on it.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - skidpan

So basically winter tyres are a waste of money in the UK where most snow and ice is turned to water by the gritters before we get a chance to drive on it.

That might be your opinion but it is not mine and that of many others. Its fair to say we are in a minority but only because the unconverted have not tried them.

I would suggest that before you make such statements you try them over a 5 month period from November to March, note their advantages and disadvantages and then come back with a reasoned arguement.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Mr Carrot Cake

So basically winter tyres are a waste of money in the UK where most snow and ice is turned to water by the gritters before we get a chance to drive on it.

That might be your opinion but it is not mine and that of many others. Its fair to say we are in a minority but only because the unconverted have not tried them.

I would suggest that before you make such statements you try them over a 5 month period from November to March, note their advantages and disadvantages and then come back with a reasoned arguement.

The thing is it's impossible to do a proper comparison. You're not going to know what your summer tyres are like when you have your winter tyres on. As has been said previously there was a test published in Auto Bild Allrad that seemed to say winter tyres were only better when there was snow or ice on the road.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Bolt

where most snow and ice is turned to water by the gritters before we get a chance to drive on it.

Depends on how low the temperature is, salt only works down to -5 (depending on the type) and if its layed down at the wrong time it can start to melt then refreeze worse than if it had not been put down at all.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - RT

So basically winter tyres are a waste of money in the UK where most snow and ice is turned to water by the gritters before we get a chance to drive on it.

No - winter tyres are very good at any temperature below 7 C, especially cold wet winters which the UK regularly gets.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Trilogy

Winter tyres are fine too during the summer.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - Avant

"Yes, in the "old days" standard tyres were more like what we call all season tyres now. Summer tyres have become just that. That said I've never managed to get stuck with any tyre in any conditions. Deep snow in my 370bhp Jag XJR with ultra wide tyres - no problem - it's all about anticipation and a sympathetic right foot."

Thank you, Steve and others who have confirmed my suspicions. I already have Kleber Quadraxer all-season tyres on the back wheels and next time I buy new tyres I will put these on the front too (or rather, following the majority view, put the new ones on the bacxk and the older ones on the front).

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - skidpan

Read this before you comment.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/66645/auto...4

I appeciate its a magazine test and they can be biased but it shows that the better winter tyres have clear advantages over the summer tyres in every category except the dry ones (but in all honesty even the cheapest, nastiest Chinese Ditchfinder is adequate in dry conditions).

I have been using Kleber Quadraxers on mine and the wifes car for the past 5 winters and they have been superb in all conditions but for the new Note they were just stupidly expensive. The highly respected Nokian D3's were cheaper, lets hope they are just as good.

For the record I first bought winter tyres in 1989 and have used them for most winters since. There was a time from the late 90's to the late 00's where I did not fit them to both cars since I was within wallking distance of work and did not need 2 cars out on the road when the weather was poor.

Winter Tyres - Premium vs Mid? - slkfanboy

Personal experance on a BMW with Continentals confirms their findings