VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Steveieb

In 40 years of motoring and access to the Millbrook trade days to trial all models over the last 20 years I have ome to the conclusion that the 1.9 TDI PD engine takes some beating.

Low end torque , turbo kicks in at 2000 revs and unbelievable fuel economy I have yet to find a better combination of useable power and economy.

I think that Avant will agree

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - RobJP

Agreed. One of the finest engines ever designed.

Over the years I had 2 Audi A6 estates powered by the 130bhp variant. Considering the size and weight of the car, I never really felt they were lacking in power or torque. In spite of the large vehicle that was being lugged around, always got 45+ mpg too.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - 659FBE

Agreed also - with one reservation.

I have a Mk 1 Superb with the 130PS AWX engine and confirm others' observations concerning performance and economy - quite exceptional in both cases. (53 mpg over about 1200 miles on holiday, cruise set to an indicated 75 mph on motorways).

In retrospect, insufficient attention was given by VAG to the camshaft and camshaft bearing loadings, such that even with the specified 507.00 oil, valve lobe and camshaft shell bearing wear is always evident when examining an old engine. I think the engineers must have had an overly good lunchtime at the pub - the valve cams are too narrow, and the journal shells are cut out for the cam followers at just the point where the injector lobe loads them.

However, with decent maintenance and correct oil, these engines are good for over 200k miles - and I have driven an untouched Mk 1 Superb AWX with over 300k on the clock (airport taxi).

The DPF killed the PD engine principle as no pressurised fuel is available for a soot burn out when the exhaust valves are open. It's a pity, because there are so many advantages with this system of fuel pressurisation, including extreme durability.

The 4 valve head, balance shaft saga and Siemens injectors all conspired to wreck the poor old PD - maybe the original engineers retired and the re-work for the 2 litre was left to the apprentices.

I'm keeping my AWX - my Superb is very nearly as economical as my wife's Citigo - which weighs about half as much and has nothing like the performance.

Design progress? The 1.9 PD gets my vote.

659.

Edited by 659FBE on 19/09/2015 at 17:28

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - craig-pd130

Certainly as far as power, torque delivery, economy and servicing are concerned, it's a cracker of an engine. I ran the AVF variant (the supposedly 'high-torque' version) mated to the 6-speed manual in a Passat B5.5 for over 5 years and 60,000 miles.

The VAG powertrain guys had really done their homework with the fuel and boost mapping, as the throttle response was always sharp and strong anywhere above 1,500rpm, making it a surprisingly brisk car point-to-point. The 4th gear increments from 30-50, 50-70 etc were all around 5 seconds, give or take, which meant good, safe overtaking punch.

Mine averaged a genuine 46mpg at the pumps during my ownership, which was remarkable for a big old family barge; it would regularly give 50mpg over a tankful.

Of course, not even its most ardent admirer would call it smooth or quiet: it was a gruff old thing.

I've also had the pleasure of driving a remapped unit in a Fabia vRS and that was hilarious - some 280ft-lb of torque in that lightweight body means it absolutely flies.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Avant

I do agree Steve - one chooses a diesel for a combination of economy, low-down torque, reliability and longevity, and the 1.9 PD was one of the best for combining all those virtues. Our first diesel was SWMBO's Peugeot 205 GRD - that XUD engine was a good'un as well.

Long-term reliability of diesels is much more questionable nowadays - we all know why. That's one reason why - despite doing a higher mileage in semi-retirement than I expected to - I still think my diesel days are done. Another reason is that you never know when the next Press scare about diesel emissions is coming; one of these days there could be a big one which could be the end of diesels holding their value.

And the final reason is the 40+ mpg that my 2.0 petrol Octavia gives me on a long run. There are some very efficient petrol engines around now.

Great to have you back with us, 659 FBE Stay with us - your experience and expertise are much valued.

Edited by Avant on 20/09/2015 at 00:11

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Steveieb
Thanks for all your brilliant posts.

I was interested to learn that the PD engine was dropped as it was unable to feed fuel to a DPF.

But I have seen vw Audi cars on 09 plates with 1.9 tdi engines. The reason I ask is what is the way of identifying a 1.9 tdi powered car without a DPF . or did some 1.9 tdi engines have DPF s fitted towards the end of their production.?
VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - RT
Thanks for all your brilliant posts. I was interested to learn that the PD engine was dropped as it was unable to feed fuel to a DPF. But I have seen vw Audi cars on 09 plates with 1.9 tdi engines. The reason I ask is what is the way of identifying a 1.9 tdi powered car without a DPF . or did some 1.9 tdi engines have DPF s fitted towards the end of their production.?

The operative date for Euro 5, which required DPFs on diesels, was 1st September 2009 - that was for new Type Approvals, production build requirement a year later.

So it's quite possible for 09, 59 and 10 plated cars not to have DPFs - whether they did would be up to the manufacturer as some fitted them in the early '00s.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - skidpan

The operative date for Euro 5, which required DPFs on diesels, was 1st September 2009 - that was for new Type Approvals, production build requirement a year later.

So it's quite possible for 09, 59 and 10 plated cars not to have DPFs - whether they did would be up to the manufacturer as some fitted them in the early '00s.

The actual final registration date for cars type approved before September 2009 was 31 December 2010 so it is possible to get a non-DPF Euro 4 or Euro 5 car on a 60 plate.

Most manufacturers stopped making non-DPF cars mid summer 2010 so any cars registered late in December would have been old stock.

We had one of the early mid 90's 1.9 90 PS TDis in a Golf. The engine was simply the best on the market at the time, the power delivery was better than any other diesel I had driven and the torque was certainly better. Like all diesels of that period the pwer dropped off fast once you had passed 3500 rpm which made overtaking exciting at times and drivability in town was poor, you never appeared to be in the correct gear. Economy wise it would do about 45 mpg in town and the high 50's on a long run, averaged out at about 48 mpg, almost double what we got out of the previous petrol.

Over the years diesels improved out of all recognition and if I had stepped back into the Golf when we had the Ceed it would, I am sure, been a real disapointment.

Now we have a Seat Leon with the latest 140 PS TSi petrol. This blows every other engine we have owned into the weeds. The power delivery is linear all the way from 1500 rpm to 6000 rpm. The economy is low 40's in town to mid 50's on a long run, averages out at about 45 mpg which is not that far short of the old TDi.

Do I miss it, not really, things have moved on.

Edited by skidpan on 20/09/2015 at 18:45

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Steveieb

Thanks for this Skidpan.

My daughter has just taken delivery of a Polo GT with the same petrol engine as yours. Amazing performance but will it stand the kind of abuse thrown at the PD engine by taxi drivers who report mileages into the late 100 s ?

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - skidpan

My daughter has just taken delivery of a Polo GT with the same petrol engine as yours. Amazing performance but will it stand the kind of abuse thrown at the PD engine by taxi drivers who report mileages into the late 100 s ?

Looked after correctly there is no reason why it should not be reliable over huge mileages. But I would expect it to not appreciate poor maintenance that Taxi drivers tend to lavish on their vehicles.

But personally I am not panicking, just done over 1000 miles in the past week and averaged a true (not dash computer reading) 50 mpg and I was not pussy footing about. Brilliant engine.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - craig-pd130

Now we have a Seat Leon with the latest 140 PS TSi petrol. This blows every other engine we have owned into the weeds. The power delivery is linear all the way from 1500 rpm to 6000 rpm. The economy is low 40's in town to mid 50's on a long run, averages out at about 45 mpg which is not that far short of the old TDi.

That engine is working its way across the bigger cars in the VW/Skoda/Audi ranges, I'll have to test-drive it in one of those. I've yet to read a bad review of it.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Big John

The 1.9 pd was a great engine , indeed I had one for over 10 years in a 2003 Skoda Superb. Sadly I recently sold this as I can't be bothered dealing with car body work these days - mechanically it was still amazing(original battery and exhaust!). I usually got about 50mpg with my driving although the new owner seems to be getting better than me getting over 700 miles to a tank of diesel - best I got was 650.

HOWEVER the 1.9 pd does not work well if fitted with a DPF. Basically the pd injection has mechanically pumped cam operated unit injectors (electrically fired) but is not designed to pump again on the exhaust stroke - requred for diesel regen of DPF (unburnt fuel fed into exhaust on regen cycle). DPF's did appear on a few 1.9 notably on later 1.9 VM golfs and Skoda Superb II 1.9 Greeline (the non Greenline Superb II 1.9 OK though)

Personally - I'm trying to avoid the latest diesel technology (DPF, Adblue etc.. ) as I know too many people who have had expensive problems and the longevity of engines now reduced - unburnt diesel squirted into a bore (especially if worn) does not make a great lubricant

I've now moved to a 2014 Superb II 1.4 tsi (previous generation compared to the engine in the current Leon but the latest revision) and whilst clearly the economy is not a good as the 1.9PD SUperb I it's not tooo far off. Most fills tank to tank are about 46mpg although did get 49.5mpg after a recent trip fro Hampshire to Yorkshire via horrendous traffic on M25 and a trip up the A1 to avoid the awful very long roadworks on the M1

Edited by Big John on 21/09/2015 at 17:10

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - slkfanboy

I would say that the 1.9D had it day in 2010 being one of the best options, but not the greatest engine. For sure the VW 1.8 Turbo petrol far out shined it for me.

The VW 1.9D was not so reliable further the 1.9D with DPF suffered further problems, to the degree of putting many off the 'D' word all together along with fuel prices.

Many who only had VW will love the VW's (and why not), but then BMW drivers love there engines as much as Merc drivers and so on.

Further, the new wave of small petrol engines with turbo's that pull away from 1500 rpm with good torgue thoughout the range and decent mpg excite more these days

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - daveyK_UK

An engine that never seems to get praise but was both bullet proof and reliable was the 2.0 SDI found in various Rovers.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Big John

Although I agree about the VAG 1.9 tdi being an excellent long lived motor (I`ve had 2, oldest daughter and youngest son got one each) they can and do commonly suffer from sticky vnt vanes and even terminal turbo failure without much notice.

They can also suffer failure of the injector wiring loom - electrical wiring sat in hot oil not really a good idea - mine was OK during the 170k miles I did in it.

The vacuum/solenoid operation of EGR, turbo and antishudder valve can be a bit unreliable with the small pipes springing a leak or solenoids failing. I had one issue with this - vibration had eventually rubbed a hole in one of them - easy no cost fix

Never had turbo or EGR failure and I was on the original DMF/clutch. Mine was the pd100 version.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - balleballe

I had driven an A4 fitted with the 130bhp 1.9PD for 6 months - good amount of power and torque from around 1700rpm and during the 10,000 miles it averaged 49.3 (brim to brim figures)

I now drive a civic with their 2.2 CDTI engine which i've had since April and its done 8000 miles since ive had it. Similar power delivery if im honest - but from 1500rpm. This has averaged 48.7mpg with the same style of driving

I civic was fitted with that engine upto 2011

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - slkfanboy

Well the civic does not seam to be class leading when it comes to D.

I'd say the bmw 320D with 184bhp returns easly 53mpg on mixed driving and around 60 on the motorway. The turbo kicks in around 1700 rpm. Drove one for around 150 miles over three years without issue.

Don't do the milage now so gone to petrol lol.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Trilogy
Drove one for around 150 miles over three years without issue.

50 miles each year is really way too low for a diesel. ;)

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Cluedo
We are not talking about the EA189 version here are we ?
VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - skidpan

I'd say the bmw 320D with 184bhp returns easly 53mpg on mixed driving and around 60 on the motorway

The BMW 2 litre diesel is a great engine, had one in a 118D. But even with the 143 PS engine in a smaller lighter car it would never do those sorts of mpg figures. 47 average for 5 years of mixed driving and a best of about 55 mpg on a long run of 360 miles in the day. But those were calculated figures, If I had teken them off the dash display I would probably have seen what you have.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - supersmashing

I had the 130bhp 1.9 on a VW Bora. Sold it at 240,000miles from new and it was still insured a year later. So I reckon it cleared 300k. The introduction of the Euro 5a DPF in 2010 and the withdrawal of these clean smelling mechanical PD engines in favour of newer electronic ignition, which stink, is the kiss of death for diesel due to increased Noxious emissions. I am contemplating electric - too many people have it in for diesel these days. The health scare stories will only get worse.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Big John

I had the 130bhp 1.9 on a VW Bora. Sold it at 240,000miles from new and it was still insured a year later. So I reckon it cleared 300k. The introduction of the Euro 5a DPF in 2010 and the withdrawal of these clean smelling mechanical PD engines in favour of newer electronic ignition, which stink, is the kiss of death for diesel due to increased Noxious emissions. I am contemplating electric - too many people have it in for diesel these days. The health scare stories will only get worse.

Er - whilst I really liked the engine in my 2003 Superb 1.9 pd100 being well maintained and serviced always passing the MOT emissions test with flying colours - I could never have described it as clean smelling. If you floored it you could see some smoke.

Actually until recently modern direct injection petrol engines created way more particulates compared to a modern diesel engine fitted with a DPF, this is why now as of September most new direct injection petrol engined cars are now fitted with Particulate filters (GPF or PPF or OPF) to achieve Euro 6d temp.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - Bilboman

There was a popular story in the press a few years about the possibility of using old vegetable oil from the chippy in a diesel engine with virtually no side effects (apart from giving off a whiff of Full English Breakfast when waiting at lights). IIRC the "plain vanilla" PSA XUD 1.9 engine was one of the best engines to fill with cooking oil. I'd imagine the German oil burning PD would have given it a rotund "NEIN!"
What, I wonder, are the implications of running an XUD on chippy oil ? (Apart from the obvious requirement to declare and pay tax to HMRC on regular fill-ups) We're firmly in pre-DMFW and DPF days, but would there be any issues with other diesel gubbins under the bonnet?

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - focussed

It's inadvisable to try to fuel any diesel with used frying oil. But you can use used frying oil to brew your own bio-diesel. Loads of websites about to tell you how to do that.

No problem with HMRC up to I think 2000 litres/year, you just have to keep records of quantity, no tax to pay.

Older IDI diesels - the pre-chamber in head type, can tolerate new fresh clean veggie oil, but they won't start reliably on it at low temperatures, so a twin tank diesel/veggie system is needed with heated filters etc.

DI engines don't like veggie oil, they are likely to suffer from gumming of piston rings and possible mixing of veggie oil with sump oil resulting in a jelly in the sump and goodbye engine.

All in all, unless you have to, don't do it, too complicated.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - drd63
I had to suffer a 1.9 Bora when my 2.4 petrol Accord was in for repair. It was nicknamed travis the tractor, rough, noisy, constantly surging. Best engine ever? Hardly.

VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD - Best Engine Ever ? - focussed
I had to suffer a 1.9 Bora when my 2.4 petrol Accord was in for repair. It was nicknamed travis the tractor, rough, noisy, constantly surging. Best engine ever? Hardly.

You have to remember that this thread is an VW Audi 1.9 TDI PD mutual appreciation love-in.

They even think that Honda diesels are not up to their standard LOL !

 

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