VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - bazza

Wondering how the new belt drive TSi units from VAG and the small Ford 1.0 Ecoboosts are doing in the real world. They've been out for 2 or 3 years now, there must be some information as to reliability and durability. I ask out of no particular reason except an interest in such things. I must say I have failed to find anything adverse other than one or two stories of high oil consumption on the TSi and a few premature clutch wear issues on the Ford unit. Maybe VAG have resolved all the issues the older chain drive unit had? Ford must have sold thousands of the 1.0 too and there seems to be few problems. What does our panel think?

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - madf

Great but fuel consumption is MUCH (think 40%) lower than EU figures.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

Had a Seat with the belt drive 1.4 TSi 140 PS now for just over 2 years.

No issues at all, added no oil.

The dealer had no idea what belt maintenance was required but thought it was every 3 years or 30,000 miles. This looked daft to me, would cost high mileage users a fortune so I e-mailed Seat, this is their reply "we recommend the cam belt is first checked at 60,000 miles, and every 20,000 miles thereafter. If there is no damage at these points the cambelt will not need changing. If the belt is not changed, regardless of condition, it must be replaced at 120,000 miles or when the vehicle is 5 years old, whichever comes first."

For me that means at 5 years which in reality means never since that is when I will be swapping the car (if my finances stay as they are).

As for MPG we have averaged 45 mpg in mixed driving. Not many long trips but have seen 53 mpg on one. Although its 15% short of the official combined I was not stupid enough to expect achieving that figure in mixed useage. Off to Scotland in it next month, might even manage to match the official average for the week, if we are lucky).

The dash mpg indicator is a liar, says 49 mpg against a calculated of 45 mpg.

Delighted.

Edited by skidpan on 27/08/2015 at 09:23

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - RobJP

I think the really big mpg discrepancies have been with the Ford 1.0 ecoboost engines, where you have to rev the nuts off them to get any meaningful power or torque.

To me, another concern with those very small engines would be the clutch - I can imagine a lot of people slipping the clutch with that lack of low-down grunt, leading to accelerated wear. HJ has seen a few cases of this, and Ford are fitting this engine to every vehicle possible, even those which would seem a bit too large and heavy for such a small unit (Bmax, Cmax, Mondeo)

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

I think the really big mpg discrepancies have been with the Ford 1.0 ecoboost engines, where you have to rev the nuts off them to get any meaningful power or torque.

To me, another concern with those very small engines would be the clutch - I can imagine a lot of people slipping the clutch with that lack of low-down grunt, leading to accelerated wear. HJ has seen a few cases of this, and Ford are fitting this engine to every vehicle possible, even those which would seem a bit too large and heavy for such a small unit (Bmax, Cmax, Mondeo)

That's my worry too - I am considering the 1.4 TSI ACT (150bhp) VAG engined Golf GT 3dr and equivalent SEAT Leon SC FR (amongst others - possibly including the Volvo V40 [also with a turbo-charged smaller engine] as well as a [safe choice] Mazda replacement for my Mazda3).

These cars all appear (by all accounts) to be very responsive, particularly mid-range (very useful for safe over-taking), however given I normally keep my cars until they are around 10 yo, then I would be concerned about potentially large repair bills should their engines' long term reliability be poor (untested at present). Looks like it'll be a wait-and-see game for me for the moment until long-term usage reports come in.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - SteVee

Some - like the ford & perhaps other 3 cylinder engines - have DMFs. That means they're off my list of possible cars. The VAG unit I think is OK, although I wouldn't have the ACT technology

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - brum

That's my worry too - I am considering the 1.4 TSI ACT (150bhp) VAG engined Golf GT 3dr and equivalent SEAT Leon SC FR (amongst others - possibly including the Volvo V40 [also with a turbo-charged smaller engine] as well as a [safe choice] Mazda replacement for my Mazda3).

These cars all appear (by all accounts) to be very responsive, particularly mid-range (very useful for safe over-taking), however given I normally keep my cars until they are around 10 yo, then I would be concerned about potentially large repair bills should their engines' long term reliability be poor (untested at present). Looks like it'll be a wait-and-see game for me for the moment until long-term usage reports come in.

My worry is how turning off the two cylinders effect the thermal management of the block etc, throw in stop start and you could get an engine thats running partly cold and we know thats not good for oil or wear.

As the road tax regime changes in 2016, chasing co2 bands will become less of an obsession with private buyers like me. I'm more interested in overall cost of ownership , nvh and ride comfort.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

Good points - I am too - I'm just looking for some more poke in my next car as well as good ride, reliability and handling, and a bit smaller than my current car (but still with a decent boot size). Nothing at present is the 'clear favourite' due to the possible long-term reliability issues with VAG cars (compared to the Japanese equivalents), high price of the Volvo V40, size/performance of the Mazda3 (too big for me now/not enough grunt [especially mid-range for overtaking]/firm ride) and just not a fan of any other Japanese small-mid sized car at present (other than reliability).

I'll definitely be following the VAG engines to see how they fare long-term. Maybe something will improve over the next few years.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

What would people on this forum have said when hot tube ignition was replaced by spark plugs and electricery. No doubt it would have been "thats it, back to the horse for me".

What would the people on this forum have said when cable brakes were replaced by these new fangled hydraulic ones, no doubt they would ahve been heading fior a cave in the hills.

In my lifetime people have said "that's it, no fuel injection for me, carburettors are good enough".

The doom mongers all said cats would be the end of the petrol engine but you rarely hear of a failure unless its an ancient car.

Lets embrace new technology, without it the oil will run out much faster.

I have read that it would take 800 of todays cars to polute as much as one 1960's car, probably overstated but its somewhere near the truth.

Anyone who wants to live in the past should post on the "Flat Earth Society Forum" www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/ and leave the enthusiasts to get on with it.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - mss1tw

There is a case of diminsihing returns.

No-one here is saying what you state.

There is a case to be made for sticking with what works though.

Late 90s early 2000s was a sweet spot for most cars.

Not a carb or hot tube in sight...

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

There is a case to be made for sticking with what works though.

A cave was a perfectly good waterproof shelter.

Rubbing two sticks together started a perfectly good fire using wood found nearby.

A pointy stick was easily capable of killing whatever walked past the cave entrance.

Thankfully there were people then who thought "there has to be a better more efficient way".

Thankfully there are people and companies today who think that cars are not at the pinacle of their development and push to make them better and more efficient.

I look forward to driving the results of their hard work.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - RobJP

Unfortunately, these days they're not trying to engineer a better car : they're trying to engineer something acceptable to what the politicians and bureaucrats have decided is 'acceptable'. Also something with built-in obsolescence to keep the accountants happy

I'd have every confidence in the engineers, but they aren't the ones making the final decisions. Or if they are, the decisions are being made with a large number of compromises, imposed by others

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

Quick look back over the last 25 years at the wifes cars.

Early to mis 90's, 1.8 petrol Nissan Bluebird. Generally reliable except for gearbox bearings but not economical or quick and rusted badly.

Mid 90's to early 00's, 1.9 TDi Golf. Several recouring minor problems but never let her down in over 6 years and was very ecnomical and rust free. But it smoked enough to frighten children when you put your foot down and was not that fast. It make a huge amount of noise.

Early to mid 00's, Mondeo 2.0 TDCi. Had 3 years, mechanically reliable but serious paint issues, at least Ford agreed to extend the paint warranty to 6 years. Got bored having the doors repainted twice a year and eventually sold it. Very fast, not too smoky but not economical at all.

Mid to late 00's, Focus 1.6 TDCi. Despite being fitted with the engine of doom we never had an issue. Had 5 years, totally reliable, only part needed was an alternator belt and the paint was perfect. Quiet, comfortable, quite economical, no smoke but very slow.

Early to Mid 10's, Kia Ceed SW CRDi. Had 5 years, totally reliable, only part needed was a new AC condensor which was replaced under the Kia warranty with no quibble. Paint perfect. More economical then the Focus, almost as economical as the Golf but much faster than both, much bigger, much quieter and no smoke.

The winner was without a doubt the Kia Ceed.

Would I want to go back 10, 20 or 25 years, no way.

She now has a Nissan Note 1.2 DIG-S. Loads of space, quiet, comfortable, decent performance and £0 VED for ever. Doing very well on petrol despite being used mostly in town.

Here's to the next 25 years.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - slkfanboy

The 1.0 125 BHP ford engine should manage 45 mpg over all or you can out zip along faster than a 1.6L 125BHP ford.

The comment above is wrong the engine, it does not have balanced shafts as are is common with other 3 cylinder designs it a correctly waited flywheel. The cambelt is bathed in engine oil for longer life. Further the block is cast iron rather than aluminum at the expense of weight but warms quicker and is solid. Further there is no exhaust manafold or rather it's part of the head improving the turbo responsiveness and it designed in the UK

VW use aluminum blocks with newer dual circuit cooling system, one high temp. the other a lower temp system for the turbo. They also have a intergrated manfold into the head and under high load the exhaust is cooled also to reduce fuel consumpton. While previous 1.4 have had problems the latest version has had steps to taken to avoid those issues.

In summary the ford engine amazing is more advanced and has many awards for it's design while the VW unit seams smoother.

1 in 5 of all ford focus are now sold with the 1.0 125bhp engine and are well liked. Not sure what the spead is accross VW but again the engine is well liked.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

Speaking as an engineer (though working in the construction industry, not automotive), I've noticed in the 17 years I've been an engineer that we have, despite advances in technology and consequently significant efficiency gains, that we are being forced (not just due to the economic crisis - this was happening well before then) more and more to compromise on the engineering quality of many items, both major and minor, to fit in with clients' increasing demands for cost-cutting and tighter deadlines.

Such compromises (or 'value engineering' [I personally hate the term - cost cutting is the name of the game, often barely leading to a passing grade in terms of quality/reliability over the long term]) are so common now that I'm currently mulling over leaving my line of work altogether (just not sure what - so much in the modern workplace has gone this way - the 'never mind the quality, feel the width' approach).

I can see the same in car manufacturing - parts being manufactured with smaller margins for safety and (as has been said) shorter (almost guaranteed) obsolescence and high-priced replacement costs (never mentioned during the sales pitch). Given that in an age of (supposedly) climate change, diminishing resources and grwoing populations, why are manufactured goods reducing in engineering quality and lifespan? Surely we want things to last longer, don't we?

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - corax

Surely we want things to last longer, don't we?

Engineer Andy - unfortunately your view seems to be becoming the minority, things are getting cheaper and tackier by the year. There is a personal pleasure in buying something that is well engineered and built to last.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

things are getting cheaper and tackier by the year.

Not really are they.

Cheaper yes, tackier, definitely not.

20 years ago the wife bought a Golf TDi. Cost her £14700. 2 months ago she bought a Nissan Note DIG-S, cost her £12000. Its bigger, way better equipped, performs about the same probably and seems much better built.

When I was a youngster a new TV was a real luxury item, at a guess a new black and white one with a tiny 16" screen cost about 5 weeks wages. Now you can get a 40" flatscreen for a few days wages. Other than the obvious differences of price, size and the fact its colour the big difference is the new one will not keep breaking down. I remember the repair man comiong on a regular basis and fitting new valves.

Bring back the good old days, get real and enjoy the 21st century.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - brum

Double post

Edited by brum on 28/08/2015 at 20:23

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - brum

Iron block heating up quicker than aluminium?

And whats all this babble about tvs with valves?

Edited by brum on 28/08/2015 at 20:22

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - bernie123

My 2004 VW Bora TDI 130 Highline has 92000 miles on the clock and does nearly 60 mpg cruising in the high 70's. It has plenty of power,seats 4/5 people, a large boot and is well made and reliable.

It also benefits from leather interior, cruise control, heated seats, air con and in winter with its winter tyres fitted, it goes anywhere.

What's the point of these small cars that have less equipment, less power, do less MPG and are not as comfortable ? Where is the progress ?

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

I think that Peugeot cracked it with the 1.2TSI 130 3-cylinder manifold in head PureTech that also puts out 230Nm and quite a lot of that from low rpm. Pulls extraordinarily well uphill at mid-range rpm. I averaged a calculated 48.65mpg over 12,000 miles in 11 months, quite a lot of it on 'cruise' at a true GPS 70 (73 on speedo), but enough stuck in traffic or enjoying myself on clear A and B roads to make this representative.

We looked at the new 308 SW with an open mind. The wife had major issues with buying a Peugeot having had major dealer issues with a Motabilty car they had at work for one of their clients. The dealer and Peugeot were totally hopeless and for some reason Motability would not allow them to use a Peugeot dealer 2 miles form work, the nominated dealer was 25 miles away. She was not keen.

The car presented itself vey well, nicely fitted and equipped, engine silent at idle, huge boot but then we tried the back seats. The leg room was hopeless. Add to that the daft positioned steering wheel/instruments and the even dafter decision to make the A/C only adjustable from the radio display, very distracting.

No point having what is undoubtably a cracking engine in a naff product.

The Nissan Note we bought has lots more rear leg room but the boot is smaller, big enough though.

Peugeot need to do more than build good engines.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - daveyK_UK

The latest Peugeot 308 has no interior leg room for rear passengers, a must have for a family car.

A major design flaw

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

A good start, but I'd rather wait until a car has done more than 50,000 miles before making any judgements about its reliability, especially a small-engined car with (relatively) a lot of power/torque via a turbo. I was also told that 3 cylinder engines are inherently unbalanced due to the general design principle - is that correct?

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Wackyracer

I was also told that 3 cylinder engines are inherently unbalanced due to the general design principle - is that correct?

I seem to remember reading that the Eco boost 1.0 was fitted with an unbalanced flywheel on purpose. I think I read it on the Ford webpage about the engines features.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - corax

Bring back the good old days, get real and enjoy the 21st century.

Constantly refining a hundred year old internal combustion engine to use less and less of a resource that took thousands of years to form under the ground isn't really progress though is it, it's just holding back the inevitable. It worked when there was a low number of vehicles on the planet, but now it's scary how many millions of barrels of oil are used every day. How can that be sustainable?

Stop start systems are a nonsense. It just shows how little progress there has actually been when you have to turn the engine on and off constantly to save precious fuel.

I don't want all the wild places left in the world plundered so that we can run millions of boxes on wheels just to buy something from the shop 50 yards up the street.

Electric power is progress. No gearbox, instant torque. They are well suited to todays lifestyle where you spend most of your time in traffic jams.

The sooner that batteries become viable the better, because the internal combustion engine is becoming a dinosaur as far as personal road travel is concerned.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - brum

When I was youngster last century, working the 4 am milkround on the my brothers milk float, range anxiety was always an issue. That, and the cost of replacement batteries every 3 or 4 years.

Theres not really much been done on the range anxiety front. (Lets not talk Tesla, not until they start selling for under 25k.)

No doubt, along with fusion the solution is only 20 years away ;)

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - corax

No doubt, along with fusion the solution is only 20 years away ;)

When I say the internal combustion engine is becoming a dinosaur, it's governments that are allowing it due to ever tighter emissions laws.

Hydrogen has been discussed before on this forum, but the logistics of producing and transporting it are difficult.

Talking of range anxiety I used to work at a printers and they had an electric forklift that had to be charged every night.

One day someone forgot and it was very embarassing to the perpetrator only to be able to load up the lorry halfway before the thing gave out completely. There was a lot of red faces and gnashing of teeth ;)

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Leif

When I was youngster last century, working the 4 am milkround on the my brothers milk float, range anxiety was always an issue. That, and the cost of replacement batteries every 3 or 4 years.

Theres not really much been done on the range anxiety front. (Lets not talk Tesla, not until they start selling for under 25k.)

No doubt, along with fusion the solution is only 20 years away ;)

There are advances, albeit currently in the lab. We should see double the range for a given battery size and weight in 10 years. The current demand for better batteries is stimulating people to do research.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - slkfanboy

To confirm all 3 cylinder engines are not balanced, and need some method of balanancing.

Regarding quicker engine heatup with a cast iron block verses a aluminum block. During cold start ford lock the water in the engine block until it's hot , saving fuel during warm up. The issue with mixing metals is that the expand at differant rates risking warping softer metals. So keeping to stronger simuliar metal types means the engine can warm much quicker(50%).

Reguarding engine progress it true the basics are the same but the refinement move forward every years. 20 years ago i could not imagine a 1.0 3 cylinder engine being viable, let alone quick and smooth.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Death51
RobJP

You do not have to "Rev the nuts" off the 125Bhp 1.0 in the fiesta, it is an amazingly torquey little engine. It actually amazes me how it drives almost dieselesq in its delivery, the sound is actually infectious as well 'if' you like an engine and do not require silence !

My Vrs has been remapped to 270Bhp and that little fiesta 1.0 engine manages to put a smile on my face in a completely different and enjoyable way. As for mpg the computer reports an average of 47.4mpg which is mainly A and B road driving with the longest drive about 18 miles. I can't do brim method as it's the Mrs car !
VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

People mention poor legroom in the back of the 308 but I've had a pregnant daughter in law in there no problem and a 6' 2" son in law in there no problem (not related), so I don't know what that's about.

I can assure you that with the drivers seat set in a comfortable position for myself the wife had insufficient legroom behind me to get comfortable. I am 5'9" and about 12 1/2 stone, the wife is 5'4" and just over 8 1/2 stone so neither od us are huge. All they needed to do was trim some of the huge boot space off to give a bit more legroom then problem solved.

As for the instrument display, it's excellent with your speed digitally displayed in large type above the steering wheel.

I could not set the whhel so that I felt comfortable and have aview of the instruments. I hate having to fiddle to sort out a driving position, on most cars its easy to find.

But it looks like everybody who has complained about the lack of legroom is wrong, we must have tried a different car.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

I know its well of topic but I hate it when people are being given duff information.

Before we went to look at the 308SW I read the magazine tests and the general opinion was "nice car, good engine, huge boot, sahme about rear legroom". The lack of rear legroom is an issue for us but since I have the ability to form my own opinion we went to look and the magazines were not wrong, in truth I felt they were actually underselling the problem, a few quotes:

Telegraph "Unfortunately, rear legroom lets the side down a bit"

What car “If you don’t carry adult passengers in the back of your car often - and, frankly, how many people do? - then this is a problem that ends up going away"

Basically total nonsense since most of carry adults in the rear - we do every week.

Auto Express “the legroom in the rear is merely average"

The huge boot would have been great when we pack for holiday for that is 4 journeys a year. We have adults in the rear every week, 52 journeys a year at least and having a car with insufficient space for them to enter, sit comfortably and exit comfortably is not an option. Peugeot are not on their own providing huge boots in this class, it appears to be the must have feature. VW, Seat, Skoda, Honda have all done it. All the cars above have much bigger boots than the Mondeo estate which is a much bigger car, but that car does have good rear leg room. The best compromise in the mid estate class is the Kia Ceed SW, a boot that is big enough for most families and decent rear legroom. In comparison the similarly sized Focus estate manages a smaller boot and less leg room, beggars belief.

Just ignore the magazines and try one.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - daveyK_UK

I disagree - you dont need an estate like a Kia C'eed SW to have a big boot and good rear legroom.

Its called clever design.

The Skoda Rapid/Seat Toledo manages both lots of rear leg room and a huge boot.

The nissan pulsar manages lots of rear leg room

The 308 in comparison offers pathetic rear leg room

Likewise the Ford focus manages pathetic rear leg room and a small boot

yet the Focus is a topseller!

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - galileo

Reguarding engine progress it true the basics are the same but the refinement move forward every years. 20 years ago i could not imagine a 1.0 3 cylinder engine being viable, let alone quick and smooth.

You don't remember the SAABs which had 3 cylinder engines and were competitive in rallies? Or the Wartburgs which also were 3 cylinder?

(Both were two-strokes, admittedly)

Then there was the Daihatsu Turbo diesel, also 1 litre 3 cylinder, pulled like a train and not noticeably rough.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - John F

Or the Wartburgs which also were 3 cylinder?

An early example of 'vorsprung durch technic'. They were pre 2ndWW DKW engines. If you are ever in Dusseldorf with time to spare, worth paying a visit to Classic Remise, where one is displayed in a small museum above a huge old loco roundhouse now used to store a large number of classic cars. Free entry!

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - SteveLee

Reguarding engine progress it true the basics are the same but the refinement move forward every years. 20 years ago i could not imagine a 1.0 3 cylinder engine being viable, let alone quick and smooth.

25 years ago Daihatsu produced a 100bhp+ 1 litre triple which punched the little Charade Gtti to sixty in under 8 seconds - the engine was a gem, refined, reliable - they also produced a diesel version that could nudge 100mpg in professional hands. Progress? What progress.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - diddy1234

Why didn't Daihatsu continue with this engine ?

It doesn't make sense to bring out one car with it then to drop the engine on the next variant of the same car

Was it unreliable ?

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - madf

Thirty years ago cars rusted to bits.

Now they don't.

Thirty years ago teh electrics failed as teh body rusted.

Our 13 year old Yaris is unrusted and everything elctrical works. The same was true of our 17 year old Peugeot 106 - except for the rust bit, and the cylinder head gasket...and err.... Both were cheap cars in their day when new.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

I disagree - you dont need an estate like a Kia C'eed SW to have a big boot and good rear legroom.

Its called clever design.

The Skoda Rapid/Seat Toledo manages both lots of rear leg room and a huge boot.

When we collected our Seat Leon just over 2 years ago next to the salesmans desk was a new Seat Toledo. While we were waiting around we had a look over it, the last Toledo we had seen was a hideous people carrier type car with an huge stick out ar5e like a Renault Megane, the one in the showroom looked better.

But all was not as it appeared. Yes it had a huge boot but since the car was based on an older model of some description (think it was the Ibiza) it was very narrow inside and although the rear legroom was reasonable it was no match for the Leon we were collecting.

Privately the salesman admitted he had no idea why Seat had introduced the car. He said the huge boot was its only positive attribute and would steer any potential customer towards the Leon. It was not much cheaper than the all new Leon either and when you took into consideration it was still fitted with the olf chain cam engines in the TSi petrol and lacked some safety kit it was clearly not a bargain at all.

Guess that is why you see very few on the roads.

As for clever design the sliding rear seat is one of the best features we have had in a car. 2 Micras and now the Note, allows the owner to tailor bootspace/rear legroom to their own needs.

But even Nissan have failed with the Pulsar. Huge rear legroom but no sliding rear seat to allow the owner to maximise boot space. If it had been fitted it may well ahve been a Pulsar and not a Note on our drive.

Edited by skidpan on 30/08/2015 at 18:56

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

I think that the SEAT Toldeo/Skoda Rapid was introduced as a cheap 'n' cheerful alternative to the Skoda Octavia for those on a budget (particularly in developing nations) and aimed at the taxi cab market (ok room inside, but a big boot).

You can definitely see the compromises on interior quality compared to comparable models (as you say) from the same stables - its almost as though they had a 'job lot' of overstocked old parts and thought it was a good idea to have a new model to get rid of them.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - daveyK_UK
The local Seat and Skosa dealers sell brand new diesel Toledos or Rapids to the taxi industry for £10,999.

It has a huge boot and good leg room, can carry 5 people at ease, which makes it perfect as a taxi.

The huge percentage increase in price combined with a reduction in discounts has made the Octavia expensive in comparison. That is not my view but the comments of a part owner of a large taxi company.

What I still don't understand is the loyalty of a significant proportion of the taxi industry to the VAG brand.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 31/08/2015 at 07:36

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

£11k for a brand new (if somewhat dated in look and feel) Toledo/Rapid taxi against nearly twice that for the Octavia - that's a great deal, and rather answers your question on brand loyalty. I mean - how many taxi cab customers want anything beyond a clean seat, reasonable ride and price (especially if you've had a few)? The big boot for holiday-makers and business people probably seals the deal.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - slkfanboy

A few years ago most of the ceaper taxi companies around me all had skodas . For sure none of them new as they call came from the car shop. Suspension and back seats soon went as you expect. £11k would more likely be a 1year old car, but who knows.

They moved on to Toyota now as they tell me they 30% cheaper to run, so not been in a skoda for a long while

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Engineer Andy

A few years ago most of the ceaper taxi companies around me all had skodas . For sure none of them new as they call came from the car shop. Suspension and back seats soon went as you expect. £11k would more likely be a 1year old car, but who knows.

They moved on to Toyota now as they tell me they 30% cheaper to run, so not been in a skoda for a long while

I remember in my (original) home town in the late 80s and 90s nearly all the taxi cabs were Japanese (mainly Toyota Carinas, Nissans and some Hondas) and French diesels, taking over from a raft of big Fords and Vauxhalls. Not sure if the new-fangled small engined turbo-petrols will be popular with the cabbies - diesels probably still king given the astronomical mileages they do.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Leif

Thirty years ago cars rusted to bits.

Now they don't.

My Ford Ka was scrapped after 10 years due to rust: uneconomic to repair, and that was in an independent garage. A colleagues Corsa is a rust bucket.

Thirty years ago teh electrics failed as teh body rusted.

Our 13 year old Yaris is unrusted and everything elctrical works. The same was true of our 17 year old Peugeot 106 - except for the rust bit, and the cylinder head gasket...and err.... Both were cheap cars in their day when new.

Toyota seem to be good for not having rust. A neighbour's Toyota is 13 years old, with very little rust apparent.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - skidpan

25 years ago Daihatsu produced a 100bhp+ 1 litre triple which punched the little Charade Gtti to sixty in under 8 seconds - the engine was a gem, refined, reliable - they also produced a diesel version that could nudge 100mpg in professional hands. Progress? What progress

A close neigbour of mine had one in the 90's, still does, its rusting away on the back garden. It had a huge turbo fitted and other engine work, would leave any Sierra or Escort Cosworth crying in its dust.

But the alternator still lives, its on my Caterham. 1980's Japanese electrics, cannot beat them.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - dan86

But the alternator still lives, its on my Caterham. 1980's Japanese electrics, cannot beat them.

There's a old boy up the road from me he has a F regarding Toyota Corolla I think and it still starts first time every time it's not got a spot of rust but he does take good care of it.

He bought it as a retirement present for himself brand new and said he bought it to see him through the rest of his motoring days. I'd say he's had he's money'sworth out of it and if he ever wants to sell it ill snap it up in a instant as runabout.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - John F

Thirty years ago cars rusted to bits.

Not all of them. Our 1983 Passat GL5 had virtually no rust when we sold it at 11yrs old and 192,000m. I bought a brace of old Peugeot 309s for my two sons for a few hundred each - they were amazingly rust free, requiring no preventative attention to places like the sills and bottom of the doors (in contrast to our much more modern 15yr old Focus!). These 25-30yr old cars are still a common sight in France.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - gordonbennet

This is worrying, finding meself increasingly agreeing with JohnF on lots of posts.

Apart from his weird aversion to new engine oil..:-)

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Matthewlong77

"I think the really big mpg discrepancies have been with the Ford 1.0 ecoboost engines, where you have to rev the nuts off them to get any meaningful power or torque."

I don't normally reply to forum posts, but had to create an account, just so I could reply to the above post! We have had our 15 reg Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost 125bhp since March this year and covered nearly 8000 miles so far. We've driven up and down the country on all sorts of roads.. You do NOT need to 'rev the nuts' of this engine!!! That sentence tells me you have never driven this engine. There's immense power at really low revs. The power is right there well below 2000rpm. It's one of the best engines for pulling up long hills. The torque is sometimes unbelievable for such a small engine. There's a nice second power band and over boost feature if you feel you want to rev it, which is very rewarding :-) But please don't tell me you need to rev this engine...

Edited by Matthewlong77 on 25/11/2015 at 20:38

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - SkodaIan

Having driven a VAG 1.2TSI 110 in a Leon (Wife's car) and the Ford 1.0 Ecoboost in a Focus (Hire Car) back to back on the same day on the same Yorkshire Dales roads, I'd disagree with you there. Some of the small turbo engines are good, but in some, including in my opinion, the Focus just haven't got it quite right.

In comparison to the apparently lesser powered Leon, other than in town the Focus felt much slower unless you drive it like you would a VTEC Honda engine (i.e. regularly using the full rev range). Having to drive like that is much harder work for the driver and certainly less economical.

It may be that the "low revs" power band is adequate for a Fiesta which is a couple of hundred kilograms lighter, and the extra weight of the Focus is what just tips it over the edge.

I really couldn't get on with the Focus, and was quite glad when I gave it back to the hire company and got a 1.6 Astra the following week (which was dull but at least easy to use). The power delivery wasn't my main gripe though. That was the combination of the overly snatchy clutch and an engine which felt like it was always going to stall at idle. This made driving in traffic much more difficult than it needed to be.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Avant

"It may be that the "low revs" power band is adequate for a Fiesta which is a couple of hundred kilograms lighter, and the extra weight of the Focus is what just tips it over the edge."

I think that's right. We had my sister-in-law's 1.0 Fiesta with us when she was in Australia, and I was quite impressed with it. But I did think that the Fiesta was just the right size of car for that engine: in a Focus, let alone a C-max or Mondeo, you would have to use a lot of revs to make the brisk progress that Fords' very good handling makes possible and rewarding.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Trilogy

My neighbour has averaged 40 mpg, over 30,000 miles, with his Focus 1.0.

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - Avant

Is that the same neighbour who's having his Focus's engine replaced?

VAG - VAG EA211 and Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engines - bazza

My parents have just bought a 1.0 Zetec Fiesta, after a couple of 1.4s in succession. It is initially quite different to drive. Although ultimately a more powerful engine, moving off at just over idle feels initially as if it will stall, plus there's the 3 cylinder throb, all combining to a different "feel". But it's a fantastic engine, smooth, free revving and very lively, to be honest it really is an excellent car and I can see why it's the No:1 seller. I suspect in the Focus, with the extra weight to get moving, it might be a bit trickier at just over idle and before the turbo spools up. It took me a few miles to get used to the Fiesta.

I wonder if all the clutch failures in the Focus are due to new owners slipping the clutch a lot more to get the thing rolling, I can visualise that after my drive in the Fiesta.

 

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