Hacking car control systems

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Wed 22 Jul 2015 12:38
Hacking car control systems - hillman

Thia article was in today's Daily Mail.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169724/Hackers-c...l

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 12:41
Hacking car control systems - skidpan

Its in the Daily Mail thus I don't think I will be worrying about it.

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 13:03
Hacking car control systems - Andrew-T

I think it's in The Times too?

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 13:07
Hacking car control systems - skidpan

Never read the Times, never will.

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 22:32
Hacking car control systems - Andrew-T

Never read the Times, never will.

Pray tell us which rag you prefer, Skidpan?

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 13:17
Hacking car control systems - Leif

More fun than Scalextric.

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 17:39
Hacking car control systems - Doc

Greenberg wrote: ‘The most disturbing maneuver came when they cut the Jeep’s brakes, leaving me frantically pumping the pedal as the 2-ton SUV slid uncontrollably into a ditch.

Can this be true?

Surely brakes are purely hydraulic/ mechanical and cannot be disabled electrically.


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Wed 22 Jul 2015 17:58
Hacking car control systems - RobJP

Some cars these days are going onto 'fly-by-wire' systems. The brake pedal isn't directly linked to the hydraulic servo cylinder, but takes electronic signals which it then sends to the pump to operate the servo.

A classic example of pointless technology, in my opinion.

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 18:28
Hacking car control systems - craig-pd130

Some cars these days are going onto 'fly-by-wire' systems. The brake pedal isn't directly linked to the hydraulic servo cylinder, but takes electronic signals which it then sends to the pump to operate the servo.

A classic example of pointless technology, in my opinion.

Correct. Honda already has 'brake by wire' systems on some of its ABS-equipped motorbikes

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 18:15
Hacking car control systems - Engineer Andy

If manufacturers are stupid enough to build cars with systems that can be remotely accessed (i.e. not directly via a cable) and being capable of anything more than simple diagnostics (not altering any parameters or turning things on/off) and data downloads without adequate security, then they are just looking for trouble...

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 19:09
Hacking car control systems - gordonbennet

Oh good, another thing fixed that wasn't broken in the first place...why did someone deem it sensible progress for the brakes to depend entirely on electronics, presumably doing away with the direct hydraulics...that's so last century darling.

Not as i'm in the least bothered, along with electric parking brakes it's just one more thing i won't be buying into, ever.

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 22:46
Hacking car control systems - dan86

Our new lorries have got brakes like this and I don't like it the feel in the pedal is odd and when unladen the brakes just don't feel like they have any bite.

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Wed 22 Jul 2015 23:28
Hacking car control systems - Avant

It was indeed also in the Times.

Keyless entry is another example of unnecessary electronics which may be hacked into. Let's hope it stays as an optional extra for those gullible enough to fall for it, rather than becoming standard.

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Thu 23 Jul 2015 12:35
Hacking car control systems - davecooper
More or less the same story but on a more credible website.

eandt.theiet.org/news/2015/jul/highway-car-hack.cf...s
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Thu 23 Jul 2015 20:36
Hacking car control systems - Doc

"Miller and Valasek said the attack was not an easy one to carry out and would require months of work for the potential hackers to emulate, working their way from the entertainment system to the core on-board network. Moreover, the hackers would need to know the Internet Protocol address of the car, which may be quite difficult to obtain, as it changes with every start of the car."

So perhaps the threat is not that great.


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Thu 23 Jul 2015 20:54
Hacking car control systems - mss1tw

The more nonsense like this I see, the more I want to get a 'forever' classic

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Sun 26 Jul 2015 08:48
Hacking car control systems - jc2

It only applies to certain US Jeeps;current EU legislation reqires brakes and steering to operate mechanically(not necessarily very efficiently) in case of mechanical or electric/electronic failure.

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Sun 26 Jul 2015 10:36
Hacking car control systems - gordonbennet

It only applies to certain US Jeeps;current EU legislation reqires brakes and steering to operate mechanically(not necessarily very efficiently) in case of mechanical or electric/electronic failure.

Long may that continue.

Long after the EU hopefully goes the way of the dodo.

Bad enough when a vacuum servo fails, or the altenative electric pump as fitted to W211 Mercs which they swiftly dropped at facelift circ 2006/7, you lose the power assistance but retain some braking (though far less with the MB in question according to what i've read on the MB forums)

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Mon 27 Jul 2015 14:42
Hacking car control systems - expat

There is more than one way to take over a modern car:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33622298

The problem is that the entertainment system also is connected to other electrical functions on the car such as displaying the heating and aircon information. The whole thing is hooked into a BUS system which is used for all sorts of electrical signals throughout the car. If you have electrical assisted steering or any other electric controls then they can potentially be hacked. The ECU springs to mind also lane detection systems, cruise control and a whole tin of other worms. The car companies need to really look hard at their security instead of just loading on all these computer controlled systems willy nilly. If it is on a computer and can be connected to the outside world then it can be hacked. I suspect that the car companies want their systems connected so as to enable them to download data on our driving habits, where we go etc. This can then be sold to insurance companies and advertisers.

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Mon 27 Jul 2015 14:52
Hacking car control systems - Leif

I've never worked in the automotive sector, but in general software engineers are terrible when it comes to security/reliability. There is a rush to add features, rather than polish existing ones. And customers buy more features, not less but better features.

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Mon 27 Jul 2015 15:38
Hacking car control systems - expat

I've never worked in the automotive sector, but in general software engineers are terrible when it comes to security/reliability. There is a rush to add features, rather than polish existing ones. And customers buy more features, not less but better features.

Not this customer. I want fewer features not more. I don't want Bluetooth. I switch my phone off when I am driving. I don't want touch screens. I can't operate them without taking my eyes off the road. I certainly don't want a computerised in car entertainment system.

What I do want is a simple reliable car which doesn't breakdown and is cheap to run. Usually the bottom specification which has fewer needless gadgets to break. I then keep it until the wheels fall off. A well maintained car should last at least fifteen years.

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Mon 27 Jul 2015 15:38
Hacking car control systems - gordonbennet

I suspect that the car companies want their systems connected so as to enable them to download data on our driving habits, where we go etc. This can then be sold to insurance companies and advertisers.

and whichever govt of whichever country requires it? all in the name of prevention of terrorism you understand.

Yet another reason to stick with me old 90's designs.

Expat you sound like a man after me own heart, most of the gadgets and toys unwanted, and certainly not computerised.

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/07/2015 at 15:42

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