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I think you will find many pre 2000 cars money pits. Rust was an issue in 1990-2000 period due to the introduction of water based paints.
Some cars fair better than others thu. Pre 2000 Merc's also suffered more than others due to many issue within Merc that failed to understand the importance good Qual.
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Digressing a little from the op's question but here goes...
I run a diesel car and had I heeded the general consensus on this forum I would have never bought it. Dmf's,dpf a and egr valves would have been mentioned and I would have been advised to go and buy a jap petrol.
gb has spent 3000 to keep his merc in top nick and no one has said a word.
Let me be clear this is not in anyway a criticism of gb, it strikes me he is a very conscientious car owner, but when does spending 3000+on running costs suddenly become acceptable?
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Most of us aren't anti-diesel: we just believe that unless you do a high annual mileage - say at least 15,000 a year - a diesel car isn't as good a bargain as you might think. When I did that sort of mileage, I had five diesel cars in a row.
And I personally don't think that diesels will go on holding their value better than petrols, as larger diesel cars do at the moment.
Financial considerations aside, some people prefer diesels for their low-down pull: if you are one such, enjoy! But there are some new torquey petrol engines which can rival this quality too.
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We have had a least one diesel on the drive now for the last 20 years. The last 2 we have purchased have both had DPF's and one had a DMF and we have had no issues.
Our BMW 118D did 37500 in 5 1/2 years, well below the figure most people will tell you its best to buy a petrol. This car proved them wrong. When we bought it new the list price of the car was only £350 more than the 118i which had identical power. However the drive was very different due to the available torque, simply the 118D was way better. During those 5 1/2 years we saved over £500 in VED, over £1500 in fuel and when we PX'd it the price guides indicated it was worth about £600 more than the 118i. That means we were about £2300 better off.
In 4 1/2 years our Kia Ceed has done a similar mileage. When we bought it the equivalent petrol was a slug, no way we would have bought one. The diesel did cost £1000 more but we have saved about £150 in VED, £1500 in fuel and according to Parkers its worth over £2000 more than the petrol as a PX. Again we are better off, about £2650 so far.
So in total we have saved over £5000 by buying these last 2 diesels over their equivalent petrols.
But when I sold the BMW I bought a Seat Leon 1.4 TSi. Its a brilliant drive, almost as economical, cheap to tax and cheap to buy compared to the equivalent diesel, a no brainer unless you are doing well over 20,000 miles a year.
When we replace the Kia it will probably be a petrol turbo based on the Seat Leon experience but if the sums add up I will not be afraid to buy a turbo diesel again, still love them.
Just do the maths.
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Let me be clear this is not in anyway a criticism of gb, it strikes me he is a very conscientious car owner, but when does spending 3000+on running costs suddenly become acceptable?
It's old, and expensive when new (£20k plus?). A recipe for spending a lot of money.
I used to run a 1967 Lotus ELan coupe and diy'd everything . I thought mainatenance of £700 pa when doing 2k miles a year was quite normal.. Things go wrong on 20 year old cars..Like rebuilding teh carburettors. And fixing teh diff oil leak. And replacing the oil pump as the racing pump fitted gave too much oil pressure.And the clutch went..
And that was a car fully rebuilt on a new chassis with a rebuilt engine tuned to 135bhp (from 105bhp)
Given the complexity of a top of the range 124, I would say £3k in 2 years was cheap.. Repairing the ravages of rust and replacing the odd suspension bit, central propshaft bearing and rubber components which after 20 years are shot is par for the course. I suspect GB's 300 also may have had the notorious self disintegrating wiring loom which needed to be replaced.
I ran a Mercedes 260E as a company car for three years. The annual maintenance bill a year was over £1k - and it was new then!
Owning an expensive or highly tuned old car and running it means things go wrong: often parts are eye wateringly expensive if not produced in volume when new .
But much cheaper than running an old Porsche.. (let alone a Ferrari!)
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Madf, don't remind me of the disintegrating wiring loom, that was about 6 years ago and took the ECU with it so it wasn't lonely...had the car gone to MB that would have been a £2.5k/3k bill seeing as the ECU is £1500 alone, as it was via my indy the total bill came to around £1200.
Thats why i won't totalise the costs, if i did i'd need treatment, you're right the car was around £45/50k when new so it's going to cost corresponding amounts to keep it up to scratch.
You can't put a price on keeping certain cars in the right condition that they might hopefully become classics, you certainly won't get your money back, it's something those who feel the need to do so, and have the means to, do, because otherwise there won't be lovely old 124's or anything else being admired at events or in museums in 40 years time unless someone does these things in the cars banger years.
If someone doesn't appreciate older, classic and vintage cars for what they are they won't understand.
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gb has spent 3000 to keep his merc in top nick and no one has said a word. Let me be clear this is not in anyway a criticism of gb, it strikes me he is a very conscientious car owner, but when does spending 3000+on running costs suddenly become acceptable?
I believe the Merc is not GB's main car, so I would guess a lot of the expenditure is not 'essential' (i.e. needed to keep the car on the road day to day) but to keep it in top condition.
Also, when running a car that's 20-odd years old you'd expect to spend more money on maintenance and upkeep. A lot of modern cars - especially diesels - require significant expenditure after 4 - 5 years to replace the complex items you mentioned (DMFs, DPFs etc)
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I suppose the point about GB's Merc is that he is spending on an appreciating asset. An investment.
With a new(er) car of no particular merit, the spending is latent. Until the time comes to sell, when the depreciation bites....
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The biggest part of the recent expenditure was the gradual failing of the CHG, quite normal for the breed at or about 100k, its not a simple job by any means on its own.
But whilst the head was off, my indy suggested slipping a new duplex timing chain on, and i asked for the oil cooler and water pump to be renewed at the same time.
The gearbox downshift cable snapped a long time ago and i had temporarily (5 years ago) fixed it with a chocolate block connecter, new cable required the gearbox to come out to fit, so whilst i was in the mood to maintain and that was out i had the TC refurbed and the gearbox partially stripped and inspected...all good as expected seeing as it's had at least 3 and possibly 4 oil changes in its life.
Then its once every two yearly visit to my handy little one man and his dog body shop to keep it in fine fettle.
Doesn't take long to kiss goodbye to £3k with such long term TLC, but people don't question the sanity of losing far more than that in depreciation alone the second the sign their name on the new car document, nor the staggering bills that proper servicing, when it can be found, costs.
I don't expect anyone else to understand unless they have a genuine passion for something, others spend fortunes on their hobbies/holidays/drinking/golf/mistresses in no particular order .:-) , looking after that old MB has been my pleasure for the last 12 years.
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/02/2015 at 16:30
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The biggest part of the recent expenditure was the gradual failing of the CHG, quite normal for the breed at or about 100k, its not a simple job by any means on its own.
But whilst the head was off, my indy suggested slipping a new duplex timing chain on, and i asked for the oil cooler and water pump to be renewed at the same time.
The gearbox downshift cable snapped a long time ago and i had temporarily (5 years ago) fixed it with a chocolate block connecter, new cable required the gearbox to come out to fit, so whilst i was in the mood to maintain and that was out i had the TC refurbed and the gearbox partially stripped and inspected...all good as expected seeing as it's had at least 3 and possibly 4 oil changes in its life.
I know that classic car "mission creep" only too well :-/
My bike could do with the frame being powder-coated, but then I'd end up having the tank resprayed, sundry items rechromed / refinished, and I'd probably end up opening the crankcases for the first time in nearly 40 years because the engine would be out of the frame .... so I'm not getting the frame powder-coated.
23 years have now passed since it was originally restored in 1992, when it was 16 years old ...
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Hah, quite forgot the £400 (very good price) the new rear screen cost last year, laminated with dozens of almost invisible heater wires, they delaminate after so many years, this is the second one i've had fitted.
Last aftermarket screen too, confirmed by several quotes, won't be any more till now there's enough orders for a batch to be made, so genuine it would have to be at what 3 times the cost?
Could be worse, my indy screen man supplied and fitted a CL500 rear screen not so long ago for over £2200.
I wonder if we've frightened off our OP Tim yet, hope not, apart from the CHG none of the jobs needed desperately to be done, but as noted above, keeping these vehicles in top condition is a very expensive pastime.
Go on Craig you know you want to refurb it really..:-)
Edited by gordonbennet on 24/02/2015 at 17:25
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In 2011 I bought a W124 diesel estate rather than a more modern car e.g. Octavia TDI MK2 estate. The W124 cost me £800. Since then it has cost me about £3,000. It is on agreed value insurance for about the same it has cost me. If I'd spent £3,500 on an Octy estate, like I had at one time planned, I doubt it would now be worth much more than £1,800 as a private sale. Merc is probably worth £3,000 to £3,500. Not many cars appreciate as you spend money on them. Octavia may well have cost less in maintenance but if turbo/cambelt etc had needed replacement it may well have cost as much as Merc if not more.
An upside of Octy would have been better economy and performance. Merc has a 6 cylinder engine, so much more pleasure to drive, even if it is a bit of a snail, but it is very relaxing to drive with superb all round visibility, beautiful grey interior (just like this w124.co.uk/carsforsale.php?page=detail&id=2007...0), rather than coal mine black of an Octavia.
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Love the estates, you've a wonderful car there Trilogy but you don't need me to tell you that, well worth the time and money.
The Diesel 124 saloon we had a few years ago was still being serviced by my MB indy for its new owner until earlier in the year when it got totalled by a 4x4 which rammed it up the back...my indy's son was genuinly upset as he told me about it, chances of them replacing it zero, one of the very best kept examples to be found anywhere and they'd looked after it for about 130k miles, they get surprisingly attached to the well cared for cars in their charge.
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OP- last May whilst idling through the Autotrader I saw an advert for a 15 year old 320CLK coupe and to cut a long story short I bought it. I've done about 5000 miles in it and I kid you not, apart from petrol I haven't spent a penny on it. Mine is an exceptional car though one owner FSH 68k when I bought it, the previous owner bought it as a retirement present and I bought it when he died after a short illness. So yes they can be a good buy, as always it depends on the history etc.
I see you're considering a 320; the 320 is the one to have, the engine is a peach. Ours is a third vehicle, it only gets used for touring and long runs and 34mpg is easily achievable. I couldn't live with it as an everyday car though, I've used it for commuting a few times and not enjoyed that at all, never mind the 17mpg. The only criticism I have is the poor rear visibility, hopefully yours will have the parking aid.
So all in all a great weekend and touring vehicle. I'm very happy with mine.
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