All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - twitcherman

OK, the inverse of the thread featuring potentially good cars that were never produced - cars that made it into production despite being manifestly a bad idea.

I give you the Suzuki X-90 for starters...

Edited by twitcherman on 10/11/2014 at 21:55

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - 72 dudes

Morris Ital; Mazda Demio; Ford Fusion; City Rover

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - HandCart

And if they were to put proper rustproofing, a 5-speed box, single-point fuel injection, ABS, and airbags on a Morris Ital, it'd make roomy family transport that ought to cost peanuts to manufacture and peanuts to maintain.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - galileo

And if they were to put proper rustproofing, a 5-speed box, single-point fuel injection, ABS, and airbags on a Morris Ital, it'd make roomy family transport that ought to cost peanuts to manufacture and peanuts to maintain.

Many years ago I used Itals as company pool cars, replacing Marinas. Thrashed the things up and down the land, never had a problem with them.

Having owned old cars with cable drum brakes, vague worm and peg steering and no heaters, I considered an Ital to be fairly adequate basic transport.

I can see that someone accustomed to modern cars with all their advanced gadgets may despise the Ital (and its contemporaries such as HA Viva, Sunbeam Avenger etc) as somewhat lacking.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT
I can see that someone accustomed to modern cars with all their advanced gadgets may despise the Ital (and its contemporaries such as HA Viva, Sunbeam Avenger etc) as somewhat lacking.

Even back then, many of us thought the Marina/Ital as second-rate.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - HandCart

They WERE second rate, to the roomier and better-handling Cortina Mk3.

But either of those would still be viable transport today. For better economy, they'd need 5 speed gearboxes, and then a more-slippery body shape to make best use of that overdrive gear.
Oh look - I've just reinvented the Ford Sierra !

The big advances since then have been in safety and corrosion-resistance.

After that we're just tinkering around the edges with dual-zone climate control and auto-dimming LED headlights etc,
until something other than internal combustion can become mainstream.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT
Oh look - I've just reinvented the Ford Sierra !.

That falls into the same category! They never did completely resolve the aerodynamic instability in side winds - caused by not wind-tunnel testing at anything other than head-on angles but blamed on the rear window frames, the wheel trims, and various other parts.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - HandCart

If only BMC had evolved aerodynamics to perfection with that Pininfarina 1800 then!
-all the best practices might have been learnt before Ford needed to attempt it, plus, there might never have been a need for the Marina - it's all come full-circle !

Darn those BMC managers!

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Avant

As I said on the other thread, the Austin Allegro should have been a hatchback evolution of the 1100 / 1300. It would have come out a year ahead of the Golf, and automotive history might have been different. (Or it might not, if the build quality was as bad as the Allegro.)

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - daveyK_UK

The city rover would have been fine if it was priced correctly.

The car that should never have got into production was the Renault Avantime

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - 72 dudes

The city rover would have been fine if it was priced correctly.

OK, if it was £2995 new. It was built in India to very poor standards, it looked carp and it was carp.

Makes the Dacia Sandero look like a great car

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - bathtub tom

I'll defend the X90, have you seen their prices going up?

The 2WD version is proving to be a very capable trials car and is probably the most numerous on events.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - skidpan

Ican see that someone accustomed to modern cars with all their advanced gadgets may despise the Ital (and its contemporaries such as HA Viva, Sunbeam Avenger etc) as somewhat lacking.

Even back then, many of us thought the Marina/Ital as second-rate

Back in the 70's and early 80's I drove most of the cars that people despise today on a daily basis.

The HC Viva was a reasonable car. Rusted badly but mine was reliable for 2 years (bought 3 years old) and sold easilly.

Hillman Avenger was a great car to drive, way better than the VIva HC. It handled and rode really well but the 1.6 I had was revving at 4400 rpm on the motorway at 70 mph, made for noisy and thirsty progress. Rust was not a particular issue but mine went through a 3 month period when everything went wrong in rapid sucession. Mine was bought 3 year old off my dad and had been well looked after. All the repairs were done on the drive with a simple tool kit, dead easy.

Ford Escort was also a really simple car but as a whole was way better than it should have been. Even with cart springs on the back it rode and handled really well, on a par with the Avenger despite that cars much more modern rear set up. Had mine 4 years from new and it was totally reliable but for a wiper motor and radiator. Paint was carp, rusting really well when I sold it.

As for the Ital and Marina I must confess that I never owned one but drove several that they had at work. Without a doubt Leyland deserved all they got, the cars were poorly assembled, poorly developed, in summary the worst car I have driven ( and that includes 1960's Cortinas and Anglias). The ride and handling were truly appaling, they wallowed all over the place in a totally unpredictable manner. They did have one good point, the A Series and B Series engines were solid reliable lumps. And then what did they do, replace the B Series with the dreadful O Series.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - quizman

The car that shouldn't have been made was the C and D reg Escorts. Ours just rotted away!

Something to do with recycled steel I think.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - quizman

Come to think of it, I reckon the Escort was made out of rotted Vivas.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - 72 dudes

Back in 1978, the company my dad worked for downgraded the company cars.

He had to go from a decent enough 1974 Mk III Cortina 1600 XL (Sahara Beige/tan trim/optional black vinyl roof - ooohh) to a 1978 Morris Marina 1.8 Super in Red with brushed nylon Mink trim!

My dad hated it, apart from the gutsy B series engine, but noise, vibration and refinement were terrible, never mind the stodgy handling.

After the first week, my dad took it back to the Leyland dealer, complaining about the whine in 2nd gear. The Service Manager went out with him and declared "that's power, Mr Reid" and that all Marinas did it (they did).

It became a kind of joke saying in my family after that.

The Ital added insult to injury by pretending to be nicely styled in Italy. The 1.7 O series was slightly quieter though.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - daveyjp
I remember my grandfather bringing home his brand new Cortina in about 1976. By the end of 1978 it was so rotten it had to be scrapped. He never had another Ford.
All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - The-Mechanic

My top 3 nominations, in no particular order are :

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Lada_2...g

www.larevueautomobile.com/fiche-technique/photos/2...g

www.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/m...g

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Bolt

Come to think of it, I reckon the Escort was made out of rotted Vivas.

For all the Viva faults it was better than any Escort, up untill FWD

anyone remember the Viva Brabam, they were difficult to get when I worked for Vauxhall

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT

Come to think of it, I reckon the Escort was made out of rotted Vivas.

For all the Viva faults it was better than any Escort, up untill FWD

anyone remember the Viva Brabam, they were difficult to get when I worked for Vauxhall

The Escort mk1/2 had a fantastic record in world rallying, they still do 45 years after the first was built.

The Vauxhall plant at Luton had a single production line on which Vivas and Victors were built - as it was before computerisation it was no surprise that mistakes occurred and the story is that a 2.0 Victor engine/transmission had a Viva body placed on top - the mounting points didn't line up but it fitted the space - so the Viva GT was born.

For me, the Escorts went right downhill when they went FWD.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - bathtub tom

>>anyone remember the Viva Brabam

South Africa produced a V8 Viva, a homologation special IIRC. I've seen one in this country. Doesn't seem right, that sound coming from that body!

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT

>>anyone remember the Viva Brabam

South Africa produced a V8 Viva, a homologation special IIRC. I've seen one in this country. Doesn't seem right, that sound coming from that body!

Plenty of room in a Viva engine compartment for a V8.

The Victor slant-4 used in the Viva GT spawned the Lotus Esprit V8 by a convoluted route - just as Ford had commissioned Lotus to develop the Twin-Cam head bolted to a nearly standard bottom end, Vauxhall commissioned Lotus to develop a 16v twin cam head for the Viva - Lotus then carried on to build an all-aluminium slant-4 bottom end for their own models - and for someone like Lotus building a V8 from a slant-4 was easy.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - focussed

The circa 1989 Ford (Fix Or Repair Daily) 2litre petrol P100.

A Ford motor company excercise in cynicism....

Gutless horrible thing that rotted before your very eyes no matter what you did with it, never mind waxoyl, pressure washing the thing underneath weekly etc

Broken spring? Back to a Ford dealer "Have you been using it sir?"

Nah -I just bought it to stand on the drive so I could admire it.

The best device yet invented for turning gasoline into noise, vibrations, heat and not much else.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Sofa Spud

I'm going to nominate the BMW Z4 as a car that should never have been built.

Why?

Because even today, the car the Z4 replaced, the BMW Z3, looks much prettier - a timeless classic in the same way as the MGB was / is.

Instead of launching the Z4, BMW should have introduced all the technical improvements to the Z3 and kept it in production.

I'm talking here about the roadster versions. The Z3 Coupe wasn't so clever in the styling department!

Edited by Sofa Spud on 12/11/2014 at 20:30

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT

Wasn't the Z3 the floppy BMW, reminiscent of cheap convertibles of the past thatr had little torsional strength.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Avant

I had a Z3 as a fun car for five years. Never a problem with scuttle shake or any lack of rigidity: it was fine as long as you wanted a cruiser (I did) rather than an out-and-out sports car, which it wasn't. Its greatest virtue was the lovely 2.2 straight-six engine.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - barney100

HC Viva was a good car...'til I had h engine blow. I traded it in and the garage boss gave it ot the apprentice to fix up as a challenge. I saw it over twenty years later still on the road in Dorset.....could still be going for all i know.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT

HC Viva was a good car...'til I had h engine blow. I traded it in and the garage boss gave it ot the apprentice to fix up as a challenge. I saw it over twenty years later still on the road in Dorset.....could still be going for all i know.

The HC was "just" a rebodied version of the HB and was the last British-designed Vauxhall as all subsequent designs came from Opel.

In Australia, Holden's version of the Viva was evolved into the Torana with the straight six 3.3 engine - in South Africa, Chevrolet's version had various engines, including a V8.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - bathtub tom

>> Holden's version of the Viva was evolved into the Torana with the straight six 3.3 engine - in South Africa, Chevrolet's version had various engines, including a V8

The SA V8 Viva was a homologation special IIRC, specifically for rallying. I've seen one in this country with the Slowly Sideways club. Doesn't seem right, that sound from that body.

Also saw a rally Ferrari sported by that club!

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT

>> Holden's version of the Viva was evolved into the Torana with the straight six 3.3 engine - in South Africa, Chevrolet's version had various engines, including a V8

The SA V8 Viva was a homologation special IIRC, specifically for rallying. I've seen one in this country with the Slowly Sideways club. Doesn't seem right, that sound from that body.

Also saw a rally Ferrari sported by that club!

I saw a rally "Ferrari" on the RAC Rally back in the '70s - it had Lancia badges on it but the Stratos was a Ferrari chassis and Ferrari engine/transmission - sound was glorious !!

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Bianconeri
I thought there were some 3.3 litre Viva HCs here in the UK. I always thought it was the Cresta engine. There were certainly some 2.3 litre versions, although some were called Magnum.

I liked the HC but never owned one.
All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - grimep

Chrysler Crossfire. There's just something about then that I find particularly galling.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - brighteyes
Reading about cars of the 70's and 80's brought back so many memories. My first car was an Escort 1100, woefully underpowered and rusted for fun. Then moved onto an Austin 1300 which ran the bearings on the idler gear, never ran well after it was repaired. Then came a Marina TC, ok in a straight line, lousy on the slightest of bends and was also a rot box. After owning numerous cars since I now drive a 2013 Focus and other than a leaking windscreen that was replaced under warranty it's been a pleasure to own (touch wood). Of all the cars I've owned which one would I like back, my last of the line Toyota Celica. Apart from the factory sat nav, it was brilliant, selling that was my biggest mistake in my dealings with cars. What car would you have back?
All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Steveieb

Without doubt I would love to have my beutiful Mk 1 Golf Cabrio. Finished in light gold with a cream roof and hhoundstooth cloth upholstery. Handbuilt by Kharman with the absence of a production line, the engineers went to collect the parts from other parts of the factory. I even found a welding rod under the seat indicating evidence of hand welding.

And the depth of the paintwork was unlike anything you are likely to come across today.

Sold it fro £1400 now worth £7500.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - drd63
Well they might sell for £7500, doesn't mean it's worth that.
Anyway back to the title - any Chevy that's not a V8 especially Euro special badge engineered aberrations, does anyone know what these started life as? Or why.
All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT
Well they might sell for £7500, doesn't mean it's worth that. Anyway back to the title - any Chevy that's not a V8 especially Euro special badge engineered aberrations, does anyone know what these started life as? Or why.

Daewoo was using cast-off Opel/Vauxhall cars long ago - GM eventually bought them out and changed their name to sell as small Chevrolets in the US - in the mean time current Opel/Vauxhall designs are used by Buick in the USA to compete in the premium sector.

Daewoo/Chevrolet Cruze > Vauxhall Astra (related but not equal)

Daewoo/Chevrolet Captiva > Vauxhall Antara

Daewoo/Chevrolet Spark > Vauxhall Viva (from 2015)

Buick Regal > Vauxhall Insignia

Buick Verano > Vauxhall Astra

Buick Encore > Vauxhall Mokka

Chevrolet Camaro > Holden Commodore > Vauxhall Omega

The only real Chevrolet is the Corvette

Edited by RT on 30/11/2014 at 07:52

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Alanovich
Well they might sell for £7500, doesn't mean it's worth that.

?? That's exactly what it means. I might have only got an E in A Level Economics (1988 and still a pass, hooray), but I reckon I understand that one. Might not be worth it to you, but that's that. It is to someone. Therefore it's worth £7500.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Avant

That's right, Alanovich. I know nothing aout economics (and proud of it) except the First and Only Law: The right price is what some other poor sap will pay.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - drd63
Fair comment and I've got a C in A level maths which proves the marking system can't be relied on and I should have known better. That said, Mk1 golf cabriolets with their roofs down always remind me of old fashioned prams?
All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - HandCart

Roof down, the mk1 Fiat Punto cabriolet always reminded me of a training shoe...

;-)

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - NARU

My nomination as worst car ever is the Arna. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Arna

I very nearly got suckered into an avenger in my youth. Luckily I bought a Vauxhall Victor instead with the slant 4 engine (which I gradually uprated until it was a reasonable performer in the end).

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - Sulphur Man

Not the worst car ever, but the final Saab 9-5 should never have got to the dealers. Not a bad looking car, but a parts bin underneath, and under-developed due to pressure to get cashflow.

Quite why Saab never followed Volvo into the SUV space in the early noughties is baffling. But Saab were a belligerent bunch when it came to the brand's perceived value (in their eyes) and paid the ultimate price.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - artill

Quite why Saab never followed Volvo into the SUV space in the early noughties is baffling

They sort of did. The 9-7X was made in the USA on a GM platform, and apparently did make it to Europe too, although not in RHD. I dont think we anything worth having though

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - RT

Not the worst car ever, but the final Saab 9-5 should never have got to the dealers. Not a bad looking car, but a parts bin underneath, and under-developed due to pressure to get cashflow.

Quite why Saab never followed Volvo into the SUV space in the early noughties is baffling. But Saab were a belligerent bunch when it came to the brand's perceived value (in their eyes) and paid the ultimate price.

Because in 1989, GM bought 50% of Saab and therefore control, so the rot started then.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - John F

cars that made it into production despite being manifestly a bad idea.

early VW Beetle.

Noisy engine in the wrong place - loads of crashes due to violent oversteer, hardly any bonnet/boot space, petrol tank a few inches from face, stupid pedal design which women found difficult, v poor heating system, difficult to judge where the corners were so scraped wings common

BUT they were well engineered and reliable which is all most people want so they sold gazillions.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - John Boy

www.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/m...g

I have to agree with that nomination. I've just seen one for real, from exactly that angle. Estate cars are my preference, but that's horrible. Useful if you could afford a rear gunner though.

Edited by John Boy on 05/12/2014 at 10:45

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - HandCart

Actually, I saw a Rodius where the majority of the car was in a light colour, but that rear 'estate' section was all painted black:

Visually, it worked surprisingly well: The swoopy rear pillar made the car look somewhat like - and certainly no worse than - the (horrible) BMW X6M...

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - John Boy

Actually, I saw a Rodius where the majority of the car was in a light colour, but that rear 'estate' section was all painted black:

Visually, it worked surprisingly well: The swoopy rear pillar made the car look somewhat like - and certainly no worse than - the (horrible) BMW X6M...

I wish I could have seen it too, because I'd expect the two colours to emphasise what I don't like about the car i.e. the feeling that the manufacturers said "If we tack a bit on the back, we'll have an estate car". Most designers can now design an estate car which looks like an entity in itself, rather than a modified saloon.

All/Any - Cars produced that never should have been... - HandCart

But the Rodius isn't an estate, it's a People Carrier - so not so easy to make attractive.

In a way, I take my hat off to Ssangyong for having a go at making it look a BIT like a 'coupe SUV', (like the X6M) and like Honda attempted with the curvy-down 3rd side window on the previous CRV.

It's just that Ssangyong didn't, er, quite achieve it.