MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject?

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Sun 9 Nov 2014 22:31
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - mike2014uk

Hi,

I will try to keep this as brief as possible!

I have been saving for a car for the last year, and I finally hit my "milestone" of £5,000 (this is a massive amount of money to me) - so I decided to go out and buy a car.

Went to a dealer, and bought a '57 Mini Hatch One, 104,000 miles, service history, 1 months MOT for £3,300. Car looked great, and was fine on the test drive. So I bought (cash) there and then. I got a receipt etc.

20 Miles into the journey home (I live 80 miles from the dealer), engine started smoking, and had to be recovered. Took to my local garage, who said it could be head gasket or water pump failure. The garage also advised me that the brake discs were shot (literally could pick rust away) and 2 x tyres had a large gouge in them - making them illegal.

I rang the garage I bought it from, to say what had happened, and they said to return the car, so they could inspect it, so I did. They said that tyres and brakes were "wear and tear", but they would look at the engine. This was not good enough for me, so I told them I wanted to reject the car, for a full refund. They said no, they would not give a refund, so I left my car at the garage, and got my solicitor onto them. After a lot of too-ing and fro-ing (at great expense to me with solicitors costs), I could see they weren't going to refund. My solicitor advised me that there wasn't much more they/I could do, apart from take them to a small claims court. I know that this could take a long time, and I didn't trust that the garage would "lose" the car or something, so I decided to conceed and give them the chance to do the repairs.

Went down to Bradford to collect the car yesterday from an engine rebuild garage that they had sent it too, and they have repaired the engine. However, the brakes, and tyres are still the same.

Do you think that I should again try to return the car, or should I get the repairs done, and send them a bill?

To add insult to injury, there is now a knocking noise coming from the car, and I'm sure the exhaust is blowing. The engine is also sounding a bit "tickety", but not sure if that is just my imagination or not.

The car is due for MOT now, and I'm not sure what to do. Send the car back, or get it MOT'd and send them a bill?

Any help or advice would be appreciated, as I am quickly running out of money with recovery costs/train fares/Insurance/solicitors fees etc.

Thanks :)

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Sun 9 Nov 2014 23:06
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - RobJP

You can't just send it back - you must have 'good grounds' for rejecting a car, and have given the garage a 'reasonable' chance of fixing the problems (that's where your initial wanting to reject the car failed too. You have to give them a chance to fix faults)

The only thing I can think of is that you put it in for the MOT, and see what it fails on. Preferably, take it to a council MOT testing station (they can't do repairs, so have no interest in inventing problems). Once you've got the pass/fail certificate, that gives you ammunition to go back to them with, and demand fixes.

Do bear in mind that regarding tyres, they could easily insist that those were fine when you picked up the car, or the recovery driver did the damage, etc.

Brake discs, what is a marginal fail to one MOT tester might be an advisory to another. It's brake efficiency that matters, and that will be shown by the MOT.

One other point to note. The cheaper a car, the less you can reject it on. You bought that car incredibly cheaply, compared to what else seems to be on the market (pretty much the cheapest 2007 MINI in the UK), so you can't expect it to be in perfect condition.

For future note : If you're buying a car from a dealer, and they're selling it with 1 month's MOT, then there is a reason (or a few reasons) why they aren't putting 12 month's MOT on it.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 00:58
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - mike2014uk

Hi RobJP,

Just firstly, thank you for your advice - this is exactly why I came on here, as I am a complete novice!

I didn't actually realise that I had to give the garage the chance to fix the faults first - I was just assuming that under the sales of goods act, the item I bought was not fit for purpose, or of satisfactory quality - that was what I was going towards, however my solicitor (and you seem to suggest) that this is a grey area with regards to a car, so thanks :)

Great idea with the MOT at a council centre - I will do that.

I do realise that the car was cheap - however the mileage is 100,000 - so I would have hoped that would make the case a bit more in my favour, rather than it being "cheap". But hmm.. I guess you are right :(

As for the future - I sure as hell won't be buying a car with anything less than 12 months MOT on it - I will ask a dealer to show their faith in a car by MOTing it.. I suppose we all live and learn!


Do you think that I could pursue a claim for the other issues - fair enough, perhaps not the tyres (I guess that was my lookout), but the other problems that have "developed", or only come clear since driving it/getting it looked at - the brake discs (if they turn out to be defective), the knocking noise, (whatever that turns out to be), the exhaust, and the noisy engine?

Mike

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 06:55
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - Armitage Shanks {p}

An MOT certificate indicates that a car passed the test on a particular day, you may get advisories saying that one tyre is near limits, discs are worn but legal ect, However, it does not meant that the car going to be OK or up to MOT test standards for 12 months

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 07:18
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - gordonbennet

RobJP has covered it, and AS is spot on about the value of an MOT.

In retrospect it was possibly ill judged to go and buy a car without having someone with you with a decent knowledge about cars to inspect it with you or to have it independantly inspected.

Presumably the engine is now repaired time will tell, tyres on a MINI 1 (if on its original sizes) shouldn't be expensive and neither should discs/pads, whether they need renewing we don't know, they all rust, replacement depends what the friction contact surfaces are like.

I doubt you'll get any joy from the seller on these items the knocking noise might be worth pursuing depending on what it is (exhaust if its that possibly a consumable too), the thing to do now is find yourself a good indy mechanic to maintain the car for you from this point on, someone unbiased who won't be afraid to tell you to shift the car on if it's a bit lemony.

Thing is as RobJP alludes to, the car was cheap enough to reasonably expect it to need things doing, whether one of these cars is worth buying at 7 years old at any price is a different question entirely.

Edited by gordonbennet on 10/11/2014 at 07:23

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 09:13
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - scot22

Excellent advice here - shows the value of a forum.

Mike I sympathise. I bought a car three years ago which resulted in more expense than I anticipated ( diesel/petrol buying right for needs - I chose wrongly ) Since then I have been on forums and will not make same mistakes again. Also I will do my research before buying.

It is good to read your response. You have the right attitude, some people just take the hump !!!

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 10:09
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - mike2014uk

Thank you all for your replies - you've all given some great advice! :)

Armitage Shanks -

I apprectiate that with the MOT - however I do think a certain onus should go onto the dealer to supply a car that is actualy road legal, but as others have suggested, maybe I did get it cheap. :)

GordonBennet -

Next time, I will be taking a mechanic - for sure! But as a dealer I think they should certainly make sure their cars are safe, and road worthy.

As for your comment on buying one of these at 7 years old regardless of price.. well.. I'm beginning to see your point! Every time I google "Mini water pump/engine problems", the same thing keeps cropping up. Maybe I will choose my cars more carefully, and not just go for the good looking one!

Scott22-

I'm sorry to hear about your own experience with buying a car, and am glad that - like me, these forums have been fantastic. I gave up being down about things a couple of years ago.. the car is faulty - no amount of getting upset about it will make it work better. I'l just get on with it and make the best out of the situation.

To sum up:

Thank you for all your advice all. I have put the car into my local garage, just to go ahead and give it a full MOT. I trust the man who works there, and he often repairs the job "for £10 quid" etc - him and his dad have run the same garage for some 70 years and give honest and reliable opinions.

Have decided that anything OTHER than brakes and tyres (as I will absorb them into the (what I now know) was very cheap price of the car, or over say £250 quid, will get invoiced to the garage. Will see what happens! (I'l pop back on and let you know).

Thanks once again :)

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 10:57
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - FP

It is depressing to read that you spent money on a solicitor ("great expense", you say) who should, had he been ethically and morally motivated, simply have advised you that all he could do was to write a letter, which might or might not have achieved something. There should have been no further "to-ing and fro-ing" while the solicitor trousered your cash for achieving absolutely nothing.

I agree that "a certain onus should go onto the dealer to supply a car that is actualy road legal", but you were being naive if you actually expected and assumed that every dealer will do this. Dealers exist to make money out of customers in return for certain conveniences and services, and there are dodgy dealers in the same way that there are dodgy people everywhere - and maybe a few more in the motor trade than anywhere else.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 11:37
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - scot22

I do not hold the legal profession in high esteem and agree with previous comment.

On personal experience I highly rate Bosch monitored garages and feel there could/should be something similar for garages. Those of us with little experience can be too trusting.

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Mon 10 Nov 2014 13:23
MINI Hatch 5-door '57 reg - Return or reject? - daveyjp

Buying a potential lemon is all part of the University of LIfe course!

At least you have passed.

When we were buying an Aygo I found one at a main dealer about 30 miles from me - it was a high miler at 23,000 in just over a year, but looked OK.

Took the time out to visit and on first look two of the tyres were down to the indicators, the other two had 2-3mm so I would have changed them so there car had four new ones. The front brakes were also shot.

On mentioing this the sales guy said they would replace 2 tyres and nothing more and no discount to reflect the fact it needed money spending on it.

We walked, but I'm sure some unsuspecting punter would have driven it away with four dodgy tyres and very worn front brakes.

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