A case for qualifications? - geoff1248
We are currently having quite a bit of work done at our mansion. Although a keen DIYer there are curtains works that I am not permitted to carry out. Any gas works and much electrical works have to be left to the professionals who have the necessary qualifications. For safety reasons I can fully see the logic of this even if many of the jobs I could have done myself. Similarly a structural engineer has been employed to work out the steel needed for the RSJs.
It then occurred to me that anyone can set themselves up a mechanic/garage without the slightest qualifications. OK so they couldn't carry out MOTs but they can replace brakes, steering and many other safety related parts.
Is it time for a compulsory recognised qualification to be introduced for car mechanics.
I can appreciate the uproar this may cause but..........
A case for qualifications? - NARU

Where's the evidence that this would save lives?

I am not convinced that poorly executed repairs cause many accidents.

According to a Department for Transport study, Contributory Factors to Road Accidents, 2005, the main causes of accidents are as follows:

  • Failure to look properly – 18%
  • Failure to judge another person's path/speed – 10%
  • Being careless, reckless or in a hurry – 9%
  • Poor turning/manoeuvring – 8%
  • Loss of control – 8%
  • Going too fast for conditions – 7%
  • Slippery road – 6%
  • Following too close – 4%
  • Sudden braking – 4%

(Edited to add - I'm not aware of a more recent study, but the rise of smartphones can only have made the human factors even more significant in the last ten years).

These figures are drawn from accidents where the police attended the scene and a contributory factor was reported.

Given that most of these are caused by the human behind the wheel, I would have thought there was a much better return on investment from having motorists do regulalar top-up training than mechanics.

Edited by Marlot on 15/09/2014 at 12:25

A case for qualifications? - YG2007

Its a valid point. The mechanics particularly the Master Technican I employ at my garage have invested a lot of their time post apprenticeship in training courses to keep themselves of latest technologies. These Hybrids for example have electrical systems running at higher voltages than are found in your house and similarly new hazards like auto engine start can occur when working on the vehicle if the correct precautions aren't taken. (Imagine having your hands under the bonnet of a Prius and the engine starts?

Whilst I would welcome a registration and qualification process for servciing and repairs on vehicles it will be very difficult if not impossible to enforce. There will be nothing to stop "Fred in the shed" from going to a scrap yard to fit parts on customers cars. It "may" improve safety of cars in that repairs will be undertaken by qualified and registered repairers it won't however do anything for those people who never service their vehicles and run them until they drop to bits. To drive up safety standards which I think would be the aim of such a registeration process vehicle safety inspections should be more rigerous (the MOT) and fines associated with keeping or using an unroadworthy vehicle should be adjusted to encourage proper behaviour from owners. The flip side to this will be that cars will reach their "Economic end of life" state earlier so their will be environmnetal concerns to balance

A case for qualifications? - Wackyracer

We already have a system to stop 'unqualified' persons doing unsafe repairs. It is called the MOT test.

As for 'Master technicians' I have lost count of the times I have had to redo work carried out incorrectly by maindealers, With their 'qualified' staff.

Edited by Wackyracer on 15/09/2014 at 12:59

A case for qualifications? - YG2007

Ditto (we're not a main dealer) we get "problem cars" others have geiven up on !!

A case for qualifications? - Gibbo_Wirral

Same here, I often get called out to try and diagnose problems after garages have stuck it on their code reader and thrown a few parts at the problem.

I'm active on various Peugeot forums and there's a interesting thread from last weekend where a "mechanic" DRAINED the eloys tank of a new member's car.

Whether he thought the tank gathered some waste by-product I can't say.

A case for qualifications? - focussed

We already have a system to stop 'unqualified' persons doing unsafe repairs. It is called the MOT test.

As for 'Master technicians' I have lost count of the times I have had to redo work carried out incorrectly by maindealers, With their 'qualified' staff.

Yes me too, My experience includes two incidences of steering wheel retaining nuts left loose, one on a Volvo 480T done by a Volvo main dealer, one on a Vauxhall, one incidence of a sump drain plug left hanging on two threads courtesy of a Ford main dealer, and one of, unbelievably, wheel nuts fitted the wrong way round with the locating taper facing outwards, again by a main Ford dealer.

It's not the initial qualification that matters, anyone with a degree of intelligence can master paper qualifications, it's the follow up check testing that matters.

A case for qualifications? - The-Mechanic

It's not the initial qualification that matters, anyone with a degree of intelligence can master paper qualifications, it's the follow up check testing that matters.

Totally agree with you. I've worked with a few 'paper qualified' techs who, when it comes down to the nitty gritty of actually working on the spanners, are lost.

The way ATA / IMI works is by testing your ability by actual, physical practical assements not by testing how well you can read the instructions or click a mouse. Sure there's E learning and an online theory test first, but this is a good indication of an individuals knowledge before the practical assessment.

The practical assessment, in my experience, did not involve any actual training on the day where you spend time doing the tests under instruction first, then you do them under exam conditions. You're expected to have a good knowledge from the outset and if you fail one or more of the tests, you have to attend and pass the relevant training course before you're awarded the certificate.

This way it saves time, effort and money trying to train a raw recruit into a top class technician by repetition. You actually need some aptitude in the first place as has been shown in the animal kingdom, you can train a chimp to do some pretty technical stuff !!

A case for qualifications? - The-Mechanic
Is it time for a compulsory recognised qualification to be introduced for car mechanics.

There's already a recognised qualification but, unfortunately, it's not mandatory but voluntary. The IMI recognises and awards mechanics on their skills and it's easy to filter out the 'Fred in a shed' ones by doing a simple search on their website :

www.imiregister.org.uk

You can search an individual or business which should give you an indication of the garages commitment to the scheme. If the garage you're thinking of using has accredited techs working there, it should give you some confidence.

Like I said, the scheme is voluntary at present but I'd like to see it made mandatory in an effort to prove the motor trade is no longer the 'bodge it and scarper' trade that it's usually portrayed as.

I'm proud to be a accredited tech and at present, I'm on my way through hard work, time and effort to gain my Master technician accreditation.

A case for qualifications? - veryoldbear

I believe that one of the problems with Main Dealers is that they are dealing with company, fleet and nearly new cars all the time. Mechanics do little more that change oil and tick boxes, and do not deal with all the strange ills of the older car. I have had a car returned to me from a main dealer with loose wheel nuts, and on another occasion the (different) dealer lost the locking wheel nut. Give me a a skilled back-street guy who can turn his hand to different makes and different problems.

A case for qualifications? - YG2007

100% agree. I am lucky I have two factroy trained technicicans who love "old cars" Although They cut their teeth on new -3 year old dealer stuff, at weekends they were playing around with 1950's 60's stuff. It a shame but most mechanics under 30 won't have worked on carbs other than at college and will have little knowledge of mechanical ignition systems. Dealerships see very few vehicles over 5 years old as a rule and as such age and mileage related problems do not appear to the same extent on their radar. THey have an advantage of back up from the manufacturer and often to bring an identical make and model of car alongside and swap bits over until a problem is solved. Not very scientific but an option for them. The independant who wants to stay in business needs to be sure the part he recommends is replaced will solve the problem and with multiple faults thats not always straightforward. The motor trade seriously undervalues those mechancis/ technicians that can accomplish this. The unregulated unlicenced environmnet in which we work drives the price down to the lowest common denominator which means low wages V skill and the brightest leaving the tools and going into management or leaving the industry.

A case for qualifications? - veryoldbear

Hear hear!

A case for qualifications? - Nutkey
We are currently having quite a bit of work done at our mansion. Although a keen DIYer there are curtains works that I am not permitted to carry out. Any gas works and much electrical works have to be left to the professionals who have the necessary
qualifications. For safety reasons I can fully see the logic of this even if many of the jobs I could have done myself. Similarly a structural engineer has been employed to work out the steel needed for the RSJs.

As a DIYer you can legally do just about anything in your house, though you may need to go through buildings control for some limited electrical work and to fit a boiler or an unvented cylinder (actually the latter might actually require a qualification - which is ludicrous - I'm not sure). I replaced my own fusebox, and BC "inspected" it (looked at it for a couple of seconds). In practice, he probably decided I knew what I was doing and that he didn't need to get an electrician in, but still....The Buildings Officer also freely admitted that Part P was a pain, they didn't want it, and that the only people jumping through the hoops were the people who would have done it right in the first place anyway. The qualified plumber who fitted my unvented cylinder didn't run through the test procedure. I know he didn't, because I did, and if he had he'd have spotted the water coming through the compression joint he'd forgotten to tighten. We employed a structural engineer for our extension. He was ****ing useless, and if if I had trusted his calculations, I'd at the very least have a big sag in the ceiling. He did admit his mistake when I pointed it out to him... I didn't pull these guys out of the yellow pages either...

Given the number of uninsured cars alleged to be on the roads, I can't see why owners would baulk at using an unlicensed but cheaper mechanic.

A case for qualifications? - Leif
You can indeed do almost anything to your electrics, but you must get it inspected and signed off. Most electricians do not want to sign it off, as they then have responsibility for any faults. I've not heard of BC doing this. Is it a national thing, do they charge, will they check anything e.g. lighting circuits, ring circuits?
A case for qualifications? - Nutkey

Reply late, but it's the BC's responsibility to test, but they can (and do) charge for it. The first time I did it, I tested it and gave the BC the test cert, they then issues a completion cert. They don't do that any more though, they've subbed out testing to an electrician, and you have to have it done by them.

A case for qualifications? - Leif
It's a good job we are protected by Part P, the electrics qualification, isn't it? I had my bathroom redone. The light switch seemed loose, and eventually fell off. A check in the loft showed that it was screwed to plasterboard. I had to cut a piece of wood, and screw it to a joist, so that I could then screw the light switch through the plasterboard and onto the wood. Some time later I noticed the shaver socket was loose. Removing the top bolt allowed me to remove the cover, and discover that the bottom both was not attached to anything. The doodah it was supposed to screw into was lying on the bottom of the mounting box. 15 minutes of work, and the doodah was correctly fitted in the mounting box, and the socket plate fastened in place with two bolts. Basically the electrician was a lazy good for nothing.

And while I was in the loft I discovered why the hallway was freezing cold in winter. The electricians who had rewired my k****** had pulled away insulation to get access to cables, and left it without putting it back. When I had my boiler serviced, the Gas Safe registered chap did not take the cover off. I contacted Worcester Bosch, who said he should have taken the cover off. So, I got WB in, and they discovered that the two,year old boiler had undersized gas piping, 15mm not 20mm. It was potentially a safety hazard, and had to be redone. My neighbour is an electrician. He has seen plenty of dangerous work,done by Part P qualified trades.

The first people who refitted my bathroom were cowboys. I had to throw them out, and it took over six months to get compensation.

I was talking to my neighbour, and he agreed when I said that Part P is nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with creating a monopoly.

I do as much work in the house as I can, good trades are valuable, but too hard to find.

Oh, and some years back my boss lost a wheel on the M4 and the car overturned. The garage had not put the wheel on properly. I recall some surveys using marked cars which showed that most garages failed to pick up safety critical faults.

Is that enough ranting? ;)
A case for qualifications? - geoff1248
It's interesting that some of the comments relate to rectifying faulty work carried out by main dealers. Did you guys actually let the main dealer know and did your customer send the bill to the main dealer?
I agree that a qualification is not a guarantee of quality of work. I wonder if all the naysayers are in the trade?