Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all (Current thread on this topic)

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 07:56
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all (Current thread on this topic) - oldroverboy.

www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/11007326/Diesel-...l

Edited by Avant on 03/08/2014 at 01:50

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 07:58
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - oldroverboy.

And does anyone here NOT think that excise duty will not rise after the next election?

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 09:34
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - gordonbennet

Thanks for that link ORB.

I expect everyone who has any money left over after essentials have been paid is going to be fair game for having their money taken, thats always been the case whatever hue the political colour might be.

The motorist still has some money to spare, therefore a prime target.

The only thing that continues to amaze is that people, after decades of decline treachery treason and the country's almost complete ruination, continue to vote for the same bunch of crooks wide boys thieves liars war mongers and traitors, yet expect a different result every time, the lunacy of it all is simply staggering.

We never fail to get the government and therefore country we vote for, for those seeking someone to blame look in the mirror.

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 10:18
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Andrew-T

So if you have a cure-all, GB, let's hear it - or would it take up too much space? :-)

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 10:33
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - diddy1234

and don't forget that the government are not getting as much revenue from smokers as they once were.

The government will want to get those taxes from somehwere and the motorist is an easy target

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 10:36
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - gordonbennet

Funny you should mention space thats exactly what the problem is here, pint pot country with a quart of people already here and more coming daily.

Definately not enough space here for one of my rants on the subject, though voting for none of the main three parties in order to start again from scratch would be a good first step, but the removal of the current politically placed class isn't going to happen anytime soon and the damage done to the country can't IMO be undone.

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 10:41
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Bolt

And does anyone here NOT think that excise duty will not rise after the next election?

They will have to put it up to pay the fine for not bringing polution levels down

I have to agree with gb, is time for change but it wont happen...

Edited by magnit on 02/08/2014 at 10:47

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 11:16
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - groaver

Vote YES. ;)

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 12:26
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - madf

Vote YES. ;)

I want the Scots to leave as well as you.

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 12:28
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Marc4Six

I think this is a telling paragraph in the quote from Frank Kelly, the chairman of the Department of Health’s committee on air pollution:

“Even today if you go to buy a new car you are provided with lots of information about its CO2 emissions and nothing in respect to the pollutants it emits."

Is this an admission from the government that CO2 is not a pollutant?

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Sat 2 Aug 2014 13:04
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Engineer Andy

I think this is a telling paragraph in the quote from Frank Kelly, the chairman of the Department of Health’s committee on air pollution:

“Even today if you go to buy a new car you are provided with lots of information about its CO2 emissions and nothing in respect to the pollutants it emits."

Is this an admission from the government that CO2 is not a pollutant?

If CO2 isn't a pollutant, please feel free to breathe it in for a while and see how you get on...

Read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollutant

Whilst I think the so-called Green Lobby (the 'hockey stick' merchants, etc) have given climate science (still relatively new) a bad name, it has been proven that CO2 does lead to global warming, so should be classed as a pollutant.

That being said, the particulates emitted from (in particular) diesel vehicles is very harmful to health directly at source (I know from walking to/from work to stations & meetings in central London), and the encouragement that governments/EU gave to diesel vehicles over petrol was wrong.

Too many people buy diesel cars that are both unsuitable for the type of journeys they undertaken (short trips to the shops etc) and ironically are more expensive to own/run over the lifetime of ownership, despite the higher mpg, because of the higher purchase cost, servicing and maintenance (now less reliable than petrol engined cars and have more expensive/complex parts).

Unless you do well over 20k miles p.a., then buy a petrol-engined car unless you regularly tow or shift very heavy loads (which the better torque characteristics of a diesel engine is suited to).

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Sun 3 Aug 2014 01:45
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Avant

Very well put, EA. Good to have what many of us have come to believe confirmed by a professional (as I assume you are).

It's odd that the other issue which plagues diesels - the expensive failures of components such as DPF and EGR at higher milesages - comes from the devices which were supposed to overcome the pollution issue. It seems that they don't do enough.

For both reasons there are many of us, HJ included, who think that the days of diesel cars holding their value better than petrols are numbered. And there are some torquey and fuel-efficient petrol engines around now, such as the VAG TSI that persuaded me to come back to petrol after five diesel cars in a row.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 01:06
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Avant

Just bumping this up to the top so that it can be the one current thread about diesels, mainly because of Engineer Andy's excellent and informed contribution above.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 01:24
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - daveyK_UK

Lets hope citroen offer a better petrol option in the next generation Berlingo multispace.

The current option of a gutless, thirsty 1.6 is no option at all.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 01:33
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Avant

That's a very good point: and Citroen aren't the only offenders. The only petrol engine offered in the Nissan Qashqai and Juke is a 1.2.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 09:54
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - skidpan

That's a very good point: and Citroen aren't the only offenders. The only petrol engine offered in the Nissan Qashqai and Juke is a 1.2.

The 1.2 engine in the Qashqai is a 1.2 turbo. It has the same power, more torque, and according to the tests I have read way better drivability and slightly better fuel economy than the n/a 1.6 it replaced.

It is on our list of cars to look at when we change in about 12 months time.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 10:37
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - nortones2

I believe EGR failures are not unknown on petrol engines, nor are turbo problems. Out of the frying pan into the fire, especially with Euro 6 which will introduce Particulate Filters for d.i. petrol engines, as they produce as many ultrafines (currently unregulated for petrol) as diesel. I think the approach on particulates is affected by the all too obvious clouds of soot from diesel. The long term risks from all particulates is not solved by trite policy making...

Edited by nortones2 on 05/08/2014 at 10:37

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 10:49
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - skidpan

Out of the frying pan into the fire, especially with Euro 6 which will introduce Particulate Filters for d.i. petrol engines

I was horrified when I read thet Euro 6 DI turbo petrols would need to be fitted with particulate filters to meet the regs. However, after some more research it appears that the filters will be very different to those used in diesels. The article I found clearly said regens will not be needed since in a petrol the filter would be achieving the temperature required without such a process and would be cleaning itself all the time. The other point made was the filter will be much cheaper, around £50 a time.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 10:58
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - nortones2

Yes, there is hope that PF temps will be lower for petrol. Here is a link re aircraft UFP: cen.acs.org/articles/92/web/2014/05/Los-Angeles-Ai...l showing LA particle numbers (the UF which are little measured due to lack of technique availability) of possibly some consequence for public health. "They calculate that the amount of ultrafine particle pollution associated with the airport is equivalent to that of up to half of all the freeways in the Los Angeles area, which cover about 1,500 km."

Just to illustrate the point that it isn't a straightforward matter of banning diesel vehicles regulated to a lower standard than Euro 6. For London, the plume from Heathrow due west of the centre might well be an issue of at least the same magnitude. I don't think it has been measured re UFP?

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 21:13
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - gordonbennet

I expect proper petrol engines might well feature again in many makers line ups, once the current Diesel favouring CO2 VED system gets overhauled after the next election.

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 22:03
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Sofa Spud

QUOTE....""They will have to put it up to pay the fine for not bringing polution levels down""

And to pay for the ever-increasing cost of maintaining the roads we drive on.

QUOTE...""I expect proper petrol engines might well feature again in many makers line ups, once the current Diesel favouring CO2 VED system gets overhauled after the next election.""

Why would that be? The trend in the transport industry has been a steady one from petrol to diesel for over 60 years - starting with lorries and buses, then vans and light trucks, and more recently cars - culminating in a decade of outright wins at Le Mans for diesel powered cars. I can't see that changing much. What's more likely is an increasing trend towards hybrids and pure electrics - especially if they're exempt from city charges.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 05/08/2014 at 22:13

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Tue 5 Aug 2014 22:33
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - gordonbennet
Why would that be?
What's more likely is an increasing trend towards hybrids and pure electrics - especially if they're exempt from city charges.

It will be because increasing numbers of us simply don't want the ever more complicated ever less reliable modern Diesel, the comparitively free VED of Diesels under CO2 based gave it massive marketting appeal and a large advantage over petrol.

The full story of premature and expensive engine problems on modern Diesels is only just becoming public knowledge, be very interesting to see how used Diesel prices are affected when its common knowledge.

Hopefully we'll see some decent 2 litre petrol engines again instead of thge miserable little 1.4/1.6 and the like that have been the recent choices if you didn't accept the Diesel option they try so desperately to sell.

I agree about Hybrids, the moves to tax Diesels more and penalise them in Cities (suits me fine i don't ever go near the dumps unless i'm paid to take a lorry there) should see hybrid sales rise...well till its their turn to pay.

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Thu 7 Aug 2014 15:41
Diesel cars to Pay - Says it all - Bolt

This looks interesting http://www.techtimes.com/articles/11480/20140728/new-cool-burning-flame-discovered-in-international-space-station-experiments.htm

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