Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

I have a skoda superb 2010 elegance tsi 1.8 DSG

serviced by main dealer all the time. 49,000 miles

Had in 2013 a warranty claim for clutch pack

Had water pump repalced in 2013

last weekend I took car to skoda citygate colindale for a VOSA recall. Collected car and within 15 miles had yellow exhaust warning light and major judder when at rest. Took car back. Surprise surprise Citygate say nothing to do with the recall work and its a total coincidence that i now have a possible camshaft problem and stretched timing chain. They want £192 to investigate further and likely an additional £500 for new timing chain.... They refuse to accept it has anything to do with VOSA recall work.

I'm not technical but find it hard to accept that a car running perfectly should have a major problem within 15 miles of leaving a garage where engine work has been done.

are Skoda right?

Help please

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - skidpan

If the VOSA recall work did not involve the camshaft or timing chain then its a total coincidence and simply bad luck.

What work was done just before it failed?

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Hamsafar

Changing the gear oil has nothing to do with the timing chain - it's just bad luck.

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee

Always assuming the problem is indeed to do with the timing chain. The fact that they want £192 to investigate suggests they don't know, so their denial that it is anything to do with them sounds like a knee-jerk.

Did they do any updates while it was in?

Have you posted on Briskoda?

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - RobJP

The OP needs to find out and/or tell us all what the recall was for. Without that rather critical piece of information, we really aren't in any position at all to see if it's possible that the recall MIGHT have caused the damage which MIGHT have occurred to their car.

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee
Is this the 7 speed dry clutch DQ200 gearbox? There is a service campaign, not a full recall, to change the oil in the mechatronic unit from synthetic to mineral.

A software update seems to be part of the work.

Might of course be a red herring but see

www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/317699-help-epc-tcse.../

It's nothing to do with the gearbox oil proper, just the mechatronic part. The original oil, filled for life, has been causing corrosion and electrical problems particularly in hot climates where VW have done full recalls AFAIK.

Edited by Manatee on 29/07/2014 at 08:18

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - gordonbennet
The original oil, filled for life,

Not long then..:-)

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee
The original oil, filled for life,

Not long then..:-)

Better be, I've got one in the Roomie! It's after the relevant chassis number so should have the right stuff in, the right software, etc etc. What do you do? Don't answer that!

That's just the gearbox - if you want a real belly laugh have a look at the engine! (CBZB 77KW)

goo.gl/2sc6Zs

I'm hoping that the time honoured approach of sensible treatment and plenty of oil changes (I've already swapped it from longlife/variable servicing to 10,000m/annual, and will do oil and filter in between) will make it last. I'll have to take a view when it's 2.9 years old...

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

Thank you for all your help.

To recap the VOSA was 37F2 reference.

Had the dealer workshop manager on the phone telling me the recall was to do with gearbox oil and it wouldn't impact the engine in any way so its simply bad luck.

He told me the error code is P0016 camshaft position sensor fault - Bank 1 sensor A timing over issue

I have now been told that its £1,305 to repair - the timing chain has stretched and it needs a new timing chain and gaskets amongst others.

I'm still perplexed as to how this would have gone within 15 miles of the car going in for the recall but Skoda are saying its not connected and no goodwill. Seems I'm snookered.

Someone suggested It's possible that changing the engine oil dislodged a bit of dirt in the oil that then blocked the oil feed to the timing chain tensioner

What do you think.

Also for this fault would you expect signs of wear ie juddering before the warning light comes on or does it suddenly go bad? Is £1,305 the right price or would I get it cheaper from an independent dealer?

Thank you

James

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

It is the 7 speed dsg petrol car

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee

Curiouser and curiouser. It's not the service campaign I guessed at.

goo.gl/eTmjvz VOSA recall

This one refers to the 6 speed DSG, DQ250 gearbox with wet multiplate clutches, not the 7 speed.

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

Thk u. So is it possible the camshaft could have been impacted by the work?

Would the problem go from no symptoms to major juddering and the light onwithin 10 miles of the car coming back or should I have experienced gradually increased juddering?

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee
I don't know if that's typical. I'm not a technician and have no special Skoda knowledge, just an interest as I have recently bought a 1.2 TSI 7 speed DSG. The more I find out, the more it seems that VW group produces one unreliable engine after another.

Still puzzled if you have a 7 speed that they have quoted a recall that relates to the 6 speed DSG. Maybe there's an error in the Vosa recall description.

You might get more insight on the Briskoda forums.
Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - YG2007

Just done a similar job on an 09 audi TFSI. If its the same mechanical configuration which I think it is the tensioner is pressurised with oil from the engine and has a ratchet mechanism built into it to hold the tension when the engine switches off. On restart the oil pressure takes the tension. This is ok until the ratchet mechanism wears whereby the timing moves. VAG are aware of the problem and supply a modified tensioner. You could ask them for a contributrion as its a known fault. (The VW parts supplier had all the bits we needed on the shelf which tells you something). There are followers between the camshaft and valves (some of which will break but save head removal for bent valves. Its not a cheap job but seeing what the main agent is charging I wish we had charged a bit more. Chain drives are supposed to last the life of an engine and not need mid life part repalcement like a cambelt system. We had fun obtaining the locking tools for this job. Would you believe the local audi dealerships wouldn't sell the locking kit for the job even though they could get hold of it because it was taking work of them. ended up spending several hours on the interweb finding out who makes the tooling for Audi and buying via the US. (dealerships often treat the independants just as badly as their customers)

Edited by YG2007 on 01/08/2014 at 10:20

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - thunderbird

Something is not quite right here.

VOSA recalls are for safety related issues.

An oil change on a DSG would not be a VOSA issue, if it was ALL VAG cars fitted with DSG in the UK would be getting a notice. As far as I am aware they are not.

So what is really happening?

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee

Something is not quite right here.

VOSA recalls are for safety related issues.

An oil change on a DSG would not be a VOSA issue, if it was ALL VAG cars fitted with DSG in the UK would be getting a notice. As far as I am aware they are not.

So what is really happening?

It would be a safety issue if it potentially disengaged the clutch without warning.

Look at the recall notice - I have linked it above. Does it say all DSGs are affected? No.

And not all DSG gearboxes are the same; and of the 6 speed ones that are, not all are affected. There is a range of build dates/chassis numbers, as is usual with these things.

There is almost certainly nothing fishy going on here except for a known fault that the OP should try and get a contribution for fixing.

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee
You might get more insight on the Briskoda forums.

I see you have posted there. rwbaldwin, who is a Skoda tech I think, has responded to the effect that the problem is nothing to do with the recall, so while the recall remains a puzzle as you do not seem to have that gearbox, the issue now is to try and get some goodwill for the chain/tensioner problem.

That usually depends on having full dealer service history - if you have I would push it, one way or another.

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

Thank you.

Can anyone advise with the stretched timing chain problem would there be signs of it failing or does it suddenly one day happen? Ie the juddering and light coming on only happened when I got the car back and I'm not a mechanic but if a part is wearing I'd expected to have seen/noticed signs of wear such as light juddering but there wasn't any

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - RobJP

Timing chain failure is usually instant, no warning at all. In fact, you're probably quite fortunate, in that timing chain failures usually result in oil pump/engine failures too.

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

Skoda won't give any goodwill despite full skoda service history.

Citygate will look into goodwill and revert on Monday but advise that they don't think I should drive car so if I don't have it repaired then I should hire transporter to take to independent garage for 2nd opinion. Leaves me a bit snookered.. hopefully the goodwill will be sufficient to warrant having repair done

Thank u to all who have responded

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - Manatee

The recall you have been quoted was issued Dec 2009. If yours was registered in 2010 then it begs the question as to why the work wasn't done before handover.

The relevant chassis number ranges are

TMB1ZA2006004 to TMB1ZA2020518
TMB1Z92008181 to TMB1Z92065424

Does yours actually fall in this range?

Last build date 31/8/2009. It's possible yours was built then but not registered until 2010, but why was the work not done earlier? Or does it have to be repeated?

You don't need to answer that for my benefit. Just questions to ask.

On the question of sudden v. gradual failure - the chain hasn't broken, and there is talk of stretching, which implies gradual. But of course the tensioner is there to take up the slack. The sudden problem could possibly arise when the tensioner fails. From what I have read (E&OE not knowing for sure whih engine this is) the tensioner is actuated by oil pressure, and there is a ratchet feature to maintain tension when the engine is off. The ratchet fails and the 'stretched' chain then becomes a problem all at once.

Note I have no experience of this - just repeating what I have read at second hand.

Good luck. Reading the Skoda forums, it seems it's not unusual for Skoda to resist before relenting when owners are persistent.

Edited by Manatee on 01/08/2014 at 19:06

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

Very interesting thank you. My chasis number is TMBBB73T9A9019631 which is outside the range so weird I was on VOSA recall.?

I know they replaced the oil as part of recall so will investigate to see if a loss of oil or oil change or oil pressure change could contribute to this stretch issue on a 49k mile 4 year old car. I know they did a long road test after doing the recall work/oil change so perhqps that had an impact?

Sorry for clutching at straws but I'm finding it hard to believe a skoda part can just fail within 15 miles of coming out the garage....

Have a good weekend

James

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

Honest John just respnoded with:

Hello James,

This came in from New Zealand.

it is badly translated from the German (Google Translate), but gives an entirely different reason for the failure of your timing chain.

it is an admitted manufacturing fault.

HJ

> Hi,

>

> Wondering if its possible to update your article here:

>

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/caradvice/honestjohn/9412266/Probl

> ems-with-VW-Golf-engine-at-64000-miles.html

>

> As VW Germany have admitted to there being an issue with some of the

> TSI engines. Your article notes "I'd say the timing chain problem was

> a consequence of the maintenance regime" yet with the benefit of

> hindsight it seems more likely to me to be a manufacturing fault. Many

> of your readers would be well served to know this. Our local non-VW

> garage has seen a large number of 1.4TSI engine cars in for major work

> due to timing chain wear.

>

> A production error in the chain of suppliers to be the cause of the

> elongated and skipped timing chains at VW TSI engines. This

> declaration gave senior VW engineers when talking to AUTO BILD in

> Wolfsburg. Volkswagen's top-quality cloth Safe Frank stated that the

> chain damage the 1.4 TSI were caused by "to accumulated manufacturing

> tolerances in the timing chain." More precisely: the supplier of the

> chain had his punching tools used across the wear limit, so that they

> no longer accurate enough punched the holes in the link plates and

> tiny burrs on steel remained. "Chips and burrs then ensured for

> abrasive wear entry," said cloth.

>

> Also read: miracle point at TSI engines from VW <***

> src="http://1.1.1.1/bmi/i.auto-bild.de/ir_img/9/8/3/9/8/3/Bietet-VW-bald-mehr-Kulanz-304x202-1f39b6d8e72747b4.jpg"

> alt = "" />

> "We do not have a series problem": Frank Tuch VW <*** id =

> "itxthook0icon" class = "itxtrst itxtrstimg itxthookicon"

> style = "padding-top: 0px important, padding-right: 0px important,

> padding-bottom: ! 0px important, padding-left:

> 4px important; vertical-align: baseline important; margin:

> 0px important; "! src =

> "http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png" alt = "" />

> (right) explains AUTO BILD CEO Bernd Wieland its position.

>

> Result: the chain wear out. From a series, however, errors could be no

> question, the case numbers were moving in the "low three-digit area" -

> at nearly two million on the streets located 1.4 TSI engines.

> Meanwhile, you've optimized the production at the supplier. Since when

> the chains run flawlessly from the band, did not reveal VW. In

> addition to this manufacturing problem and the driving behavior can be

> crucial: cars that got moved in "Brötchenholerprofil", ie

> predominantly short journeys, are disproportionately affected by

> elongated timing chains. So had many starting procedures or the

> stalling of the engine to a particular burden on the Kette.Welche role

> of the oil in the TSI problem?

>

> Kind regards

> Matt

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

I have now esclated to Skoda UK who came back initially saying as FSH Skoda they would now consider goodwill without admitting liability and they stressed they believe it is unconnected to warranty work however they would pay for all but £200 of the cost. When I pointed out I'd been offroad for 2 weeks they agreed to pay everything.

Now that is good customer service....after skoda customer service uk initially 2 weeks ago said no assistance.

Thank you for all contributors for your help

James

Skoda Superb - recall for gearbox oil now the camshaft/timinggone - jw1973

just in from Citygate............

I don’t have good news I am afraid, I have just had the technician who is repairing your vehicle come to me and inform me that we cannot complete the repairs today, This is down to a issue with the main timing cover which we are unable to refit. This will cause the vehicle to leak oil, this part is distorted and will not sit back flush,

 

Value my car