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The nearest thing I have owned in recent years was a 107, but that doest really count, even though Toyota were responcible for the design and PSA for the components.
But earlier I bought a 6 month old 406 v6, which my father still drives. Thats now 15 years old, and just works and drives great too.
Over the years I have owned many makes from around the world, but never a German car, although of course I know many who have. It seems from the small selection German cars are a little less reliable than the norm. Japanese cars are very reliable, but not immune to rust, French cars have a few minor issues, Fords are better than average, but feel old as they age. Rover made some very good cars before they folded as well.
If looking for a new car tomorrow there is nothing I would dismiss because of where it was made, or the badge on its nose
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The more simple French cars are fine (the likes of a Berlingo and c3 Picasso).
Its only when you add lots of gadgets and new tech when the problems occur.
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Renault Koleos - there's a dark horse of a car.
Yes, it's a Renault, and a very ignored one in the UK too, but in reality its just a Renualt design. It's actually an X-Trail, with the well-regarded 2.0dci which hasnt given rise to any significant long term issues yet.
But crucially, it was made in a state of the art Samsung factory in South Korea, then shipped to Europe. Apparently it's tight as. And owner feedback suggests its a total winner too. A real used bargain.
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Renault Koleos - there's a dark horse of a car.
Yes, it's a Renault, and a very ignored one in the UK too, but in reality its just a Renualt design. It's actually an X-Trail, with the well-regarded 2.0dci which hasnt given rise to any significant long term issues yet.
But crucially, it was made in a state of the art Samsung factory in South Korea, then shipped to Europe. Apparently it's tight as. And owner feedback suggests its a total winner too. A real used bargain.
I think the old cliches about car reliability vs country of origin are becoming increasingly outmoded, with the internationalisation of many of the manufacturers.
You have Renault tying up with the Japanese Nissan, building cars in conjunction with Suzuki (the Indian factory), and involvement with Dacia.
I wouldn't touch an early 2000s Renault, but the newer ones? Yeah, why not, if the price is right.
The only manufacturers I'd be cagey about now are the ones in financial trouble. So that's no GM or PSA for me.
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Pity Autoexpress think Peugeot are pants...
"
Peugeot didn’t get the best results in our 2013 Driver Power survey. It ranked 31 out of 32 in our manufacturer standings, dropping one place from the 2012 results. Reliability, build quality, braking, handling, practicality and comfort were flagged up as the biggest problems."
tinyurl.com/nt9wy48
Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/peugeot/3008#ixzz37eDV7o00
Edited by madf on 16/07/2014 at 17:59
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autoexpress this peugeot are rubbish but citroen who sell identical re-badged cars are considered good??
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Renault Koleos - there's a dark horse of a car.
Thats very interesting Sulphur Man, thankyou.
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. Rover made some very good cars before they folded as well.
Hmmm. Which ones were those, then? Did any of them, even with Japanese important bits,manage a routine 10yrs/100,000m without expensive repairs? Admittedly, I have pleasant memories of my father's fast and comfortable 6cyl 105S which, when ancient, he allowed me to drive to Cornwall with some friends. Very few cars these days have adjustable armrests on the door as well as a central one. I remember [hopefully correctly - there is bound to be someone out there with an original!] the handbook contained the wonderful instruction 'for sustained speeds above 90mph inflate the tyres by an extra 4psi.
Sadly, ever since then they went gradually downhill.......
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I had a Rover 16, A Rover 75, A Rover 110 (all as a student)- and they were nice: comfortable cars and tough as old boots. Despite the youngest being approx 12 years old...
I then - with no choice - had a series of (new) Rover 800s as company cars from the mid 80s to the early 90s. Without exception they were unreliable, badly assembled and prone to squeaks, rattles and miscllaneous electrical failures.. I vowed after that to never ever have any Rover again.. (So did the others who were forced to have one)
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I had a 3.5V8 SD1, used pool Maestros and Montegos, a few years later a Honda engined Rover 216, followed by a Rover 214. No problems with any of them, despite hard use (but with regular servicing)
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. Rover made some very good cars before they folded as well.
Hmmm. Which ones were those, then? Did any of them, even with Japanese important bits,manage a routine 10yrs/100,000m without expensive repairs? Admittedly, I have pleasant memories of my father's fast and comfortable 6cyl 105S which, when ancient, he allowed me to drive to Cornwall with some friends. Very few cars these days have adjustable armrests on the door as well as a central one. I remember [hopefully correctly - there is bound to be someone out there with an original!] the handbook contained the wonderful instruction 'for sustained speeds above 90mph inflate the tyres by an extra 4psi.
Sadly, ever since then they went gradually downhill.......
Amazing how many R8 and 75 remain at least 10 years on.
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The roads where i live in north west France are full of old LHD Rovers driven by the French - yes really - I couldn't believe it either when I moved here and I have no idea why, they must have been agressively marketed or very cheap or something. Very seldom do I fail to spot at least one on a short drive to our local town. Couldn't tell you which models because I've never taken much notice of the product.
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The most recent French cars I've owned were a 2001 Clio which I had for 4 years with no problems. It was replaced by a 2002 Laguna which I also had for 4 years and the only issue was faulty electric windows.
I've owned 2 Citroens. A ZX which was reasonable apart from a faulty starter motor and constantly flickering dash lights. I also had a Xsara which was a disaster with intermittent cutting out that Citroen could not fix.
Not sure I'd buy another French car though.
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. I also had a Xsara which was a disaster
My youngest daughter bought a Xsara new in 2002. She loves it and still has it, now with 140000miles on it. The other daughter drives a 16 year old 306 which sails through MOT each year. I've been driving hydraulic Citroens since 1990 and currently have a C5 X7 tourer. 100% satisfaction!
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I have an 04 plate 307 Hdi with 150K recorded and consumables only in that time. There is the old story that one sometimes got a "Friday Car" from Peugeot, to which the respons was that Peugeot only build cars Fridays! I think I have been lucky
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I have an 04 plate 307 Hdi with 150K recorded and consumables only in that time. There is the old story that one sometimes got a "Friday Car" from Peugeot, to which the respons was that Peugeot only build cars Fridays! I think I have been lucky
Most new cars, aged up to say 12 years old, were sold with at least a 3 year manufacturers warranty and therefore not many owners would feel the need to seek any 'additional breakdown cover/insurance' as provided by Warranty Direct, until the car was over three years old - when its first MOT is due. Therefore it seems fair to assume that the bulk of the data collected by WD relates to secondhand cars aged from say 3 to 9 years old. Therefore if you are looking for a second hand car between 3 and 9 years old - it would be prudent to consider taking out a WD breakdown insurance policy. The amount you pay WD will depend, to some extent, on the data already collected by 'the industry' regarding the most likely 'weak points' of any particular make or model. The issue is slightly clouded by the fact that Hyundai (and now Toyota) offer a 5 year warranty, Kia a 7 year warranty and Vauxhall a 'lifetime 100,000 mile warranty' - but only for the original owner. Other manufacturers may have similar deals and main dealers offering extended warranties are not uncommon on second hand Hondas etc. Thus any comparative 'breakdown' statistics will be 'muddied' by all these cars and their owners.
At the end of the day, putting well known design/manufacturing failings such as the MG TF 1.8 litre head gaskets, the Nissan Pickup main bearings, the BMW N47 Diesel engine timing chains, the runaway Toyotas in the USA and the the runanway Ford Fiestas and 'limp home mode' Focus/C Max problems, most modern cars will perform with acceptable dependability if they are serviced in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations.
Putting it very simply - if you buy an entry level supermini - because it is cheap and good value - DO NOT BE SURPRISED if its engine breaks down and is expensive to repair after say 3 to 5 years of total neglect and lack of proper maitenance. The same goes for any car - they need TLC on a regular basis.
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.... if you are looking for a second hand car between 3 and 9 years old - it would be prudent to consider taking out a WD breakdown insurance policy. The amount you pay WD will depend, to some extent, on the data already collected by 'the industry' regarding the most likely 'weak points' of any particular make or model.
I am glad you only say 'it would be prudent to consider'. But as several of us here have said many times, warranty companies have to make a profit, and they often find ways of evading their responsibilities if they can. Buyers are placing a slightly loaded bet, a bit of a heads we win, tails you lose policy.
Better to put your warranty money in a savings account. If the car needs repairs, you still have it; if it doesn't, splash out. Especially if you have exercised your prudence in choosing the used car first.
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.... if you are looking for a second hand car between 3 and 9 years old - it would be prudent to consider taking out a WD breakdown insurance policy. The amount you pay WD will depend, to some extent, on the data already collected by 'the industry' regarding the most likely 'weak points' of any particular make or model.
I am glad you only say 'it would be prudent to consider'. But as several of us here have said many times, warranty companies have to make a profit, and they often find ways of evading their responsibilities if they can. Buyers are placing a slightly loaded bet, a bit of a heads we win, tails you lose policy.
Better to put your warranty money in a savings account. If the car needs repairs, you still have it; if it doesn't, splash out. Especially if you have exercised your prudence in choosing the used car first.
Yes, Andrew T - I can see what you mean - I too have heard stories about WD failing to honour its contracts - so YES putting the same money away in a cash ISA for that rainy day is an excellent bit of advice.
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I would respectfully ask what you would say to the regular contributor to the well known Skoda forum who recently advised that he has just claimed on his Car Car Plan extended warranty. His Yeti has just had a complete final drive unit (diff, Haldex and Haldex ECU) replaced under the terms of the extended warranty. The retail cost of the parts were £3165 - PLUS - labour. That savings account that you refer to would have needed to have had a substantial amout accrued in it to have covered that one.
I also happen to subscribe to a Car Car Plan warranty on my Yeti, primarily to cover the DSG box now that it's in it's fourth year and out of manufacturer's warranty and hope that any misfortune is covered but am reassured that they paid out on this occasion - contrary to the tale/s of woe noted in the earlier example/s. Strikes me as £149 a year well spent.
Edited by KB. on 12/08/2014 at 23:59
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. I also had a Xsara which was a disaster
My youngest daughter bought a Xsara new in 2002. She loves it and still has it, now with 140000miles on it. The other daughter drives a 16 year old 306 which sails through MOT each year. I've been driving hydraulic Citroens since 1990 and currently have a C5 X7 tourer. 100% satisfaction!
It just shows how reliability can vary. My Xsara was a 1.6 petrol and about 3-4 years old when I bought it. Test drove it twice, no issues. First night I had it, it cut out when braking towards a roundabout. Lost brake servo, PAS. It started again first time. In the following week it got more frequent. The garage took it back to try and fix it. Then it started cutting out when trying to pull away which could prove dangerous ending up stalling pulling onto a large roundabout. It was back at Citroen no less than 6 times. The longest it lasted with no issues was 3 weeks, then the problem started again. The garage suspected an engine management issue but nothing they done fixed it. After 9 months I had enough and traded the car in. Citroen were useless, they didn't understand that it wasn't convenient to keep having to drop the car off, especially when it came back unfixed each time. They didn't even have available courtesy cars and all I got was a lift to work each time. I'm afraid that experience put me off Citroen altogether.
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Although the upgraded technology inside the DS5 LS usually functions well, at one point on our test route the satnav stopped working and we needed to restart the car a few times to get it responding again.
tinyurl.com/lnmxww8
Autocar
21 August 2014 8:56am
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Made in China (mainly for the Chinese market) according to that report - for which many thanks. It seems that the French have taught the Chinese their own inimitable way with electronics.
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I am with you 'getafix' re the data published in Germany in the ADAC.DE reliability report - it completely 'turned on its head' the much publicised report in the UK National Press that contrary to popular belief - "German cars were the least reliable" - this was apparently based solely on UK policy holders and owners data from Warranty Direct.
In Germany, ADAC, the german equivalent of our UK RAC/AA, presented data that clearly showed German cars were amongst the least likely to break down, with the most common causes for road side assistance for ALL MAKES being for flat batteries and empty fuel tanks!
My theory is that if those who buy second hand cars - out of the typical 3 year warranty - and who think that because it is German - it does not need to be regularly serviced or routinely checked for engine oil, coolant/fluid levels, brake pad wear etc - because of the perceived 'superior quality' of German engineering - then they are in for a nasty surprise. Warranty Direct and similar organisations, must have access to a wealth of reliability and repair cost data for each car and so could easily use this data as a basis for setting the individual 'insurance premiums' for cars that are say 3 to 8 years old - in order not to be caught out. Alternatively WD could just look at the overall industry average, based soley on size, weight, and cost when new and then estimate the avaerage probability of a warranty claim being made, in any one year, in each broad category and then simply add say 150% to the base 'breakeven premium income' levels to cover them selves and be sure of making a handsome profit on its warranty business each year.
The message is simple - all modern cars need regular attention and checking for signs of wear and tear. Neglect this at your peril !
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A roadside assessment of drivers’ knowledge revealed widespread ignorance of the components required for basic vehicle maintenance.
Many fell at the first hurdle with 12 per cent of drivers unable to open the bonnet of their own car.
More than a third of drivers (36 per cent) who took part in the study, commissioned by LV Road Rescue, could not correctly identify where to put the brake fluid, while a quarter couldn’t find the engine coolant.
tinyurl.com/kek6q22
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A roadside assessment of drivers’ knowledge revealed widespread ignorance of the components required for basic vehicle maintenance.
Many fell at the first hurdle with 12 per cent of drivers unable to open the bonnet of their own car.
More than a third of drivers (36 per cent) who took part in the study, commissioned by LV Road Rescue, could not correctly identify where to put the brake fluid, while a quarter couldn’t find the engine coolant.
tinyurl.com/kek6q22
Frustrating, but not at all suprising.
Those 'Powered by fairy dust' stickers are probably a pretty accurate reflection of what they think goes on under the bonnet.
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I'm not aware whether the AA and RAC publish statistics for the breakdowns that they attend in the UK - if not, why not?
ADAC always seem to be held as more trustworthy than most, and yet, following Getafix's link, I'm a little suspicious of how brilliantly the Audi A3, BMW 1, Merc A & B, and VW Caddy and Golf do in the small-middle-class, just as I'm also always suspicious how Continental tyres nearly always come top in the tyre tests (funnily enough, usually conducted at Continental's test track).
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